6 ms·

I hate this. All the electronic waste, batteries and whatnot for a 15 day trial. I hope such a thing wouldn't be allowed in EU with the stricter waste laws

by yread 14y ago

adventured 14y ago
We better stop making many forms of new electronics then, to limit waste. Just imagine how many millions of USB sticks have been thrown in the trash in just the last year alone, as they become outdated by newer USB sticks that store twice as much at half the cost while wasting just as many physical resources! Do you really need a new iPhone? No you do not. The iPhone 4 will do perfectly fine for now (according to some random bureaucrat), so the iPhone 5 should be illegal to sell until further notice.
- agravier 14y ago
  Your arguments strike me as a good illustration of why we need more recyclable electronics and more recycling initiatives.
  - 542458 14y ago
    Recycling isn't much of a solution. It's like smoking filtered cigarettes vs unfiltered - it's better than the alternative, but you'll still end up dead in the long term. Short of glass, most materials recycle with very low efficiencies. Even aluminium, which is often touted as being "highly recyclable" usually only reclaims around 85% of the input.
    - agravier 14y ago
      Alright, but realistically, I don't see "no waste" economies coming up and staying up for good. So, better work hard on those filters than shrug it off.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Isn't aluminum particularly profitable to recycle, even with a low recovery, since it requires absurd amounts of power to smelt the stuff in the first place? Aluminum is incredibly abundant in the earth's crust, but from what I understand it is the poster-boy for recycling because of the extreme difference in power costs between melting it down, and making it in the first place.
      - sageikosa 14y ago
        I was going to mention that much earlier...aluminum/aluminium wasn't easily separable from bauxite until electricity could be generated at industrial scale. It also forms a protective oxidized patina very quickly so needs very little in the way of post processing to "clean it up" for re-use.
- ofacup 14y ago
  still waiting for some of your insight here, but, hey, this is just a guess but i think you're full of shit... if not, please share how the US funds the world's drug research. 18 days and nothing... guess all your other posts are crap too. this one hasn't really changed any opinions
  - rquantz 14y ago
    I also disagree with adventured here, but your response is not useful.
- doktrin 14y ago
  While we're at it, we could also ban hyperbole. The parent raises a valid point that shouldn't be dismissed simply by carrying an idea to a comical extreme.
  - randallsquared 14y ago
    Over and over, the comical extreme becomes the new normal. :(
- hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
  The difference is no one bought this electronic: it's advertising you have to swallow with your magazine. Quit the hyperbole.
  - binarycrusader 14y ago
    No more hyperbole than pointing out that if you want to be that extreme, then the magazine shouldn't have been printed at all. After all, the least damage to environment would have been to only have it available online. And if you insist that it should have been printed, then what about leaving out the few hundred pages of advertising or sponsored content. After all, if they only printed the "real" content the magazine delivers, that would be minimally damaging to the environment. If there's anything to complain about here it's that I doubt they made it easy or obvious to users that they couldn't recycle the whole magazine as you would normally. Instead, you'd need to tear off the electronics part and take it to an e-waste recycle and put the rest in a "normal" recycling bin.
    - samegreatsleeve 14y ago
      Paper doesn't harm the environment. Most lumber from NA is carbon neutral at worst, carbon capturing at best
      - binarycrusader 14y ago
        Paper may not, but what about all the machines to print the magazine, the vehicle to transport it, and the ink? The paper is just one tiny component.
- astrodust 14y ago
  This is a device that's designed to work for fifteen days and then instantly become garbage despite being perfectly functional. Do you really have trouble understanding that part? I'm a proponent of the idea that companies that sell you products should have to take them back at the end of their useful life. That is, Apple would take back your unwanted phone and be responsible for recycling or disposing of it, it would no longer be your problem. This would encourage companies to engineer products with longer useful lifespans, or to facilitate refurbishing instead of destruction.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    Apple could just throw away the product you return. That would not suffice.
  - cheald 14y ago
    This would encourage companies to engineer products with longer useful lifespans, or to facilitate refurbishing instead of destruction. Or just bake the cost of disposal into the sales price of the item.
petercooper 14y ago
I'd suspect it would. I've received things like USB flash drives on Microsoft promos. I could be wrong but I think EU law puts the onus on the person disposing electronic goods rather than the producer. (Not that most people listen with anything small, it just goes in the trash.)
- easytiger 14y ago
  i seem to buy a new one every 6 months
- toyg 14y ago
  > I think EU law puts the onus on the person disposing electronic goods rather than the producer. Nope, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. At any point in time, if you want to dispose of some electronic gadget in the EU, you can send it to the manufacturer for disposal, and sue them if they refuse. If the manufacturer does not have a local branch, then the onus is on the importer/distributor down the chain. Unfortunately, most people don't know or simply can't be bothered. I used to just drop stuff at the local skip/recycling centre, where they keep electronics in a separate area, because I knew people would scavenge it for parts; a few months ago the skip changed their policy and now forbid people from picking up anything from the "electronics area", under some health&safety-touting rule. I bet it's actually because electronics disposal in the EU is now big business, thanks to the above-mentioned directive: producers are now under de-facto blackmail, so they pay specialised companies to deal with their waste, which in turn rely on local skips to pick up stuff. These companies need to get hold of waste to get paid, so they basically stop people from recycling at the source. Politically speaking it's mission accomplished (establishing a "green" economy etc etc), but in practice it's actually discouraging people from recycling among themselves, which is the most energy-efficient way to tackle waste; and recyclable electronics still show up in non-diversified skips across the African continent (or worse).
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Retailers have to take the old gadget if you buy a new gadget from them. Distributors need to provide centers to take stuff from consumers. Consumers have a responsibility to look at the packaging to see if something can be thrown in the garbage or if it needs to be sent for special disposal. (http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245 http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245)
brudgers 14y ago
For better or worse, your sentiments probably place you outside the target demographic for Forbes magazine. I will add that many of the resources consumed in online activity, including my comment here, are largely wasted.
andreasklinger 14y ago
agree. especially as it is likely that chips will become the biggest part of our waste.
powertower 14y ago
What waste? It's a few wires, a small chip, and probably a non-rechargeable/non-toxic battery that you can throw out in the regular trash. Hate is also a fairly strong word.
- gambiting 14y ago
  Read the article first. The battery is rechargeable.
  - powertower 14y ago
    My fault. I scimmed it twice, but did not see the part about it being rechargable via usb. But there are still many types of rechargable batteries that don't require special disposal. I wouldn't assume too much about this.
- DanBC 14y ago
  You throw regular batteries into the regular trash? We have special bins for any batteries. The bins are available in many shops. All packets of batteries (here) ask you to not just throw them into the trash but to send them to the special bins. This is part of law. (http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245 http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245) This law is part of EU directives.
  - powertower 14y ago
    Regular batteries (alkaline - non-rechargeable) in the US are not recycled. There are no recyclers that will even take them (except a few that will just end up throwing them away, and a lesser few that will store indefinitely them). These batteries are supposed go into your regular trash, and into the regular landfill, as they only contain trace amounts of any metals (too little to spend any effort extracting them out). And are considered non-toxic as far as I know (but don't eat them). The other types of batteries, the rechargeable types, are mostly recyclable and are not supposed to be thrown away.
    - 14y ago
null_ptr 14y ago
This is indeed absolutely disgusting. We should strive to build things that last people 15 years not 15 days, high-quality intelligently-designed devices that provide use and value for years, not planned obsolence, laptops with glued batteries, disposable routers. This is too much.
yesplorer 14y ago
I'm thinking if it says '15 days trial', then after the 15 days you could probably pay the service provider some $$ to continue using the service. hence it wouldn't be a total waste. I could be wrong though.
sultezdukes 14y ago
* I hope such a thing wouldn't be allowed in EU with the stricter waste laws* And that's why I'm happy I don't live in the EU.....too many people with this nanny-state attitude, who want bureaucrats managing every little detail of their lives.
- cgh 14y ago
  The US has waste management laws too. Try throwing medical waste out with your trash sometime. Darn those meddling bureaucrats!

I hate this. All the electronic waste, batteries and whatnot for a 15 day trial. I hope such a thing wouldn't be allowed in EU with the stricter waste laws

by yread 14y ago

I hate this. All the electronic waste, batteries and whatnot for a 15 day trial. I hope such a thing wouldn't be allowed in EU with the stricter waste laws

adventured 14y ago

We better stop making many forms of new electronics then, to limit waste. Just imagine how many millions of USB sticks have been thrown in the trash in just the last year alone, as they become outdated by newer USB sticks that store twice as much at half the cost while wasting just as many physical resources! Do you really need a new iPhone? No you do not. The iPhone 4 will do perfectly fine for now (according to some random bureaucrat), so the iPhone 5 should be illegal to sell until further notice.

agravier 14y ago
Your arguments strike me as a good illustration of why we need more recyclable electronics and more recycling initiatives.
- 542458 14y ago
  Recycling isn't much of a solution. It's like smoking filtered cigarettes vs unfiltered - it's better than the alternative, but you'll still end up dead in the long term. Short of glass, most materials recycle with very low efficiencies. Even aluminium, which is often touted as being "highly recyclable" usually only reclaims around 85% of the input.
  - agravier 14y ago
    Alright, but realistically, I don't see "no waste" economies coming up and staying up for good. So, better work hard on those filters than shrug it off.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Isn't aluminum particularly profitable to recycle, even with a low recovery, since it requires absurd amounts of power to smelt the stuff in the first place? Aluminum is incredibly abundant in the earth's crust, but from what I understand it is the poster-boy for recycling because of the extreme difference in power costs between melting it down, and making it in the first place.
    - sageikosa 14y ago
      I was going to mention that much earlier...aluminum/aluminium wasn't easily separable from bauxite until electricity could be generated at industrial scale. It also forms a protective oxidized patina very quickly so needs very little in the way of post processing to "clean it up" for re-use.
ofacup 14y ago
still waiting for some of your insight here, but, hey, this is just a guess but i think you're full of shit... if not, please share how the US funds the world's drug research. 18 days and nothing... guess all your other posts are crap too. this one hasn't really changed any opinions
- rquantz 14y ago
  I also disagree with adventured here, but your response is not useful.
doktrin 14y ago
While we're at it, we could also ban hyperbole. The parent raises a valid point that shouldn't be dismissed simply by carrying an idea to a comical extreme.
- randallsquared 14y ago
  Over and over, the comical extreme becomes the new normal. :(
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
The difference is no one bought this electronic: it's advertising you have to swallow with your magazine. Quit the hyperbole.
- binarycrusader 14y ago
  No more hyperbole than pointing out that if you want to be that extreme, then the magazine shouldn't have been printed at all. After all, the least damage to environment would have been to only have it available online. And if you insist that it should have been printed, then what about leaving out the few hundred pages of advertising or sponsored content. After all, if they only printed the "real" content the magazine delivers, that would be minimally damaging to the environment. If there's anything to complain about here it's that I doubt they made it easy or obvious to users that they couldn't recycle the whole magazine as you would normally. Instead, you'd need to tear off the electronics part and take it to an e-waste recycle and put the rest in a "normal" recycling bin.
  - samegreatsleeve 14y ago
    Paper doesn't harm the environment. Most lumber from NA is carbon neutral at worst, carbon capturing at best
    - binarycrusader 14y ago
      Paper may not, but what about all the machines to print the magazine, the vehicle to transport it, and the ink? The paper is just one tiny component.
astrodust 14y ago
This is a device that's designed to work for fifteen days and then instantly become garbage despite being perfectly functional. Do you really have trouble understanding that part? I'm a proponent of the idea that companies that sell you products should have to take them back at the end of their useful life. That is, Apple would take back your unwanted phone and be responsible for recycling or disposing of it, it would no longer be your problem. This would encourage companies to engineer products with longer useful lifespans, or to facilitate refurbishing instead of destruction.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Apple could just throw away the product you return. That would not suffice.
- cheald 14y ago
  This would encourage companies to engineer products with longer useful lifespans, or to facilitate refurbishing instead of destruction. Or just bake the cost of disposal into the sales price of the item.

petercooper 14y ago

I'd suspect it would. I've received things like USB flash drives on Microsoft promos. I could be wrong but I think EU law puts the onus on the person disposing electronic goods rather than the producer. (Not that most people listen with anything small, it just goes in the trash.)

easytiger 14y ago
i seem to buy a new one every 6 months
toyg 14y ago
> I think EU law puts the onus on the person disposing electronic goods rather than the producer. Nope, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. At any point in time, if you want to dispose of some electronic gadget in the EU, you can send it to the manufacturer for disposal, and sue them if they refuse. If the manufacturer does not have a local branch, then the onus is on the importer/distributor down the chain. Unfortunately, most people don't know or simply can't be bothered. I used to just drop stuff at the local skip/recycling centre, where they keep electronics in a separate area, because I knew people would scavenge it for parts; a few months ago the skip changed their policy and now forbid people from picking up anything from the "electronics area", under some health&safety-touting rule. I bet it's actually because electronics disposal in the EU is now big business, thanks to the above-mentioned directive: producers are now under de-facto blackmail, so they pay specialised companies to deal with their waste, which in turn rely on local skips to pick up stuff. These companies need to get hold of waste to get paid, so they basically stop people from recycling at the source. Politically speaking it's mission accomplished (establishing a "green" economy etc etc), but in practice it's actually discouraging people from recycling among themselves, which is the most energy-efficient way to tackle waste; and recyclable electronics still show up in non-diversified skips across the African continent (or worse).
- DanBC 14y ago
  Retailers have to take the old gadget if you buy a new gadget from them. Distributors need to provide centers to take stuff from consumers. Consumers have a responsibility to look at the packaging to see if something can be thrown in the garbage or if it needs to be sent for special disposal. (http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245 http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245)

brudgers 14y ago

For better or worse, your sentiments probably place you outside the target demographic for Forbes magazine. I will add that many of the resources consumed in online activity, including my comment here, are largely wasted.

andreasklinger 14y ago

agree. especially as it is likely that chips will become the biggest part of our waste.

powertower 14y ago

What waste? It's a few wires, a small chip, and probably a non-rechargeable/non-toxic battery that you can throw out in the regular trash. Hate is also a fairly strong word.

gambiting 14y ago
Read the article first. The battery is rechargeable.
- powertower 14y ago
  My fault. I scimmed it twice, but did not see the part about it being rechargable via usb. But there are still many types of rechargable batteries that don't require special disposal. I wouldn't assume too much about this.
DanBC 14y ago
You throw regular batteries into the regular trash? We have special bins for any batteries. The bins are available in many shops. All packets of batteries (here) ask you to not just throw them into the trash but to send them to the special bins. This is part of law. (http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245 http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=245) This law is part of EU directives.
- powertower 14y ago
  Regular batteries (alkaline - non-rechargeable) in the US are not recycled. There are no recyclers that will even take them (except a few that will just end up throwing them away, and a lesser few that will store indefinitely them). These batteries are supposed go into your regular trash, and into the regular landfill, as they only contain trace amounts of any metals (too little to spend any effort extracting them out). And are considered non-toxic as far as I know (but don't eat them). The other types of batteries, the rechargeable types, are mostly recyclable and are not supposed to be thrown away.
  - 14y ago

null_ptr 14y ago

This is indeed absolutely disgusting. We should strive to build things that last people 15 years not 15 days, high-quality intelligently-designed devices that provide use and value for years, not planned obsolence, laptops with glued batteries, disposable routers. This is too much.

yesplorer 14y ago

I'm thinking if it says '15 days trial', then after the 15 days you could probably pay the service provider some $$ to continue using the service. hence it wouldn't be a total waste. I could be wrong though.

sultezdukes 14y ago

* I hope such a thing wouldn't be allowed in EU with the stricter waste laws* And that's why I'm happy I don't live in the EU.....too many people with this nanny-state attitude, who want bureaucrats managing every little detail of their lives.

cgh 14y ago
The US has waste management laws too. Try throwing medical waste out with your trash sometime. Darn those meddling bureaucrats!