3 ms·
"I can't speak for investors, but I've been burned more by horrible startups-- as an employee, so more than any investor ever could be-- because I was some comb
by timr 14y ago
"I can't speak for investors, but I've been burned more by horrible startups-- as an employee, so more than any investor ever could be-- because I was some combination of naive and falsely desperate (I have a strong work ethic, and that sometimes impels me to work stupidly hard) and I'm fucking sick of most of these goddamn dreams."
Easy there. Easy.
I actually agree with a lot of the things you have to say about the startup world -- there are a ton of idiot hucksters out here who take advantage of naive people, and it's hard to tell them apart from the good folks. I also agree that many of the products being built down here are pointless and derivative. But there are good people in this industry, and you, personally, can have a good outcome from working at a startup even if it means that you don't get rich. And also, just because you get a small percentage of a startup does not automatically mean you're being exploited.
You're setting up an implicit false dichotomy: that inexperienced people can choose between the promised land, or fall prey to the scheming machinations of the VC-backed startup world. But that's crap. The fact is, most jobs are bad. The worst jobs explicitly make the trade of units of your life for dollars. Most are just boring, meaningless, anonymous slogs for some bureaucracy where you can't change anything or even have much of a voice. Startup jobs, for better or worse, are the some of the only ones you can get as an inexperienced person where you at least have a chance of changing the world in some meaningful way. That carries value.
Personally, I'd rather give up a few dollars in earning potential when I'm young to do something idealistic and bold. There's really no better place to do that -- right now -- than at a startup company doing something you believe. Big companies are stable gigs, but designed mostly to keep you in your place (don't make waves, labor unit!) Academia is a fount of bureaucracy and disappointment. Research labs are (sadly) dead or dying, or available only to the most senior people. Startups are selling a dream, but at least they're doing it honestly. Nobody makes you take that startup job.
Here's how to handle the nonsense in the startup world: take control of your life. If you're a programmer in this world, you're privileged to live in one of the most favorable labor markets in human history, so there's no excuse for complaining about being trapped in a shitty job. Take the best job you can find...and quit if it sucks. You'll have a new job in a month. Don't count on getting rich, because you probably won't. And if some nimrod gets rich with a derivative iPhone app and you're still working in the salt mines? Hey....at least you're not selling insurance or writing COBOL in a basement in Albany. Or literally mining salt.
- michaelochurch 14y agoyou, personally, can have a good outcome from working at a startup even if it means that you don't get rich. I agree in theory, but it's actually much harder to ensure a career-long pipeline of interesting work than it is to just get rich. Culture isn't stable, especially in VC-istan. So, I would argue that even if you have an interesting job in VC-istan (say, machine learning in an R&D-like environment while your company is flush with cash and management is atypically non-obnoxious) you have a small likelihood of keeping it that way, and you're better off just cashing out if you can. If you can't because you didn't negotiate a decent equity package or because you're a founder who got ruined by VCs, then you lost. VC-istan is all about money. You think your CEO wouldn't make you (not just you; the whole company) do boring work if that's what the market wanted? Of course he would. (Maybe he should; that's another debate.) Personally, I refuse to do boring work unless I am getting the outsized payout. If you're working for money, which 90+ percent of people are because they have no other choice, and you aren't making enough money to buy your freedom and own your life instead of renting it from one boss or the next, then you lost. You will be judged as a failure and your credibility will go to zero. I hate that it is this way, but there is no point of sugarcoating it. I'd rather expose reality for what it is, incite some anger, and get to work fixing the fucker. There's really no better place to do that -- right now -- than at a startup company doing something you believe. Big companies are stable gigs, but designed mostly to keep you in your place (don't make waves, labor unit!) What makes you think startups are different? That you aren't seen as a resource to be exploited? If you work at a closed-allocation startup with MBA culture and VPs of NTWTFK (Non-Techincal-Who-The-Fuck-Knows) out-earning programmers, you get all the negatives of startups and big companies but none of the upsides of either. Here's how to handle the nonsense in the startup world: own your life. If you're a programmer in this world, you're privileged to live in one of the most favorable labor markets in human history. Try changing jobs a few times. The "job hopper" stigma is real because there are out-of-touch pre-dementia patients who still believe that it's a sign of poor character rather than bad luck amid the new reality. When you're 25, no one cares if you have a 6-monther. Try it when you're 35, though.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]