4 ms·

You know, I'm a mac convert through and through, but for a company that favors simplicity so much that they create mice with just one button, I've never quite u

You know, I'm a mac convert through and through, but for a company that favors simplicity so much that they create mice with just one button, I've never quite understood why there are SO many modifier keys on a mac. I always get a mild migraine trying to remember which combination of shift, function, control, alt/option and command triggers an occasionally used keyboard shortcut. Anyone know the thinking behind this? Is it for historical reasons? I've googled over the years with no success.

dljsjr 13y ago
No different than Windows (Alt, Control, Shift, Windows Key, and fn on most laptops and modern multimedia keyboards), and on Linux the array of modifier keys can be dizzying (Super, Meta, Hyper, etc. GNU Emacs recognizes 5 modifier keys).
- lake99 13y ago
  But on Linux, if you carefully select window managers and programs, you'll have an easy answer to GP's questions "Anyone know the thinking behind this? Is it for historical reasons?" The answer is, "sure, I know the thinking behind this". I use Awesome WM. And I have configured practically every program I use. So, window management -> Windows (Super) modifer; editors -> Ctrl; Menubar -> Alt (can't change that); Funny chars -> AltGr (US International keyboard); Fn -> configured to whatever icon I see on the keyboard
- nairteashop 13y ago
  I agree with you that it's no more difficult that a Windows PC. It's just that when I moved to the Mac platform years ago, I found the general simplicity quite refreshing (yes, even the lack of a right-mouse button!) and was surprised that they hadn't done anything about the numerous keyboard modifiers.
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
"⌘" is for menu commands. "option" is a modifier. "control" was originally introduced for contextual menu ("right click"), and also provides EMACS-like shortcuts (Ctrl+A = Home, Ctrl+E = End, etc.). So in fact, it is simpler because you don't have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown/Insert/Delete keys. It also avoids overloading the same key with commands and editing shortcuts.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  It may be simpler, but it isn't very Apple like. When you consider the enthusiasm Apple has for removing every button it can, it does seem odd.
  - nairteashop 13y ago
    Exactly, it just seems out of place for Apple. During my Windows days, I had never wondered why there were so many keyboard buttons - my MS Intellimouse had 5 buttons all on its own :)
  - __david__ 13y ago
    I think it makes sense. Those keys are for complicated tasks and they're entirely optional. Normal computer users don't ever need to touch those keys—You don't need Command-Left to go to the end of the line when you can just move the mouse and click there. The modifiers are there for you once you've mastered the simple way and want to improve your speed.
- nairteashop 13y ago
  Perhaps. I really think that the alt/option and control keys can be merged though. In many cases, control is actually used as a modifier. For example, ⌘ + ⇧ + 3 takes a screenshot and saves it on the desktop. What if you wanted to save it to the clipboard instead? You hold down the Control key, not the Option key, which to me would've been the logical choice here. BTW I fully realize that it is probably too late to remove any modifiers, but one can always hope :)
- laureny 13y ago
  > So in fact, it is simpler because you don't have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown/Insert/Delete keys. It's not simple: it has fewer keys, but that makes it more complex not less, and more prone to causing carpal tunnel syndrome (Command-shift-right arrow to select till the end of the line? Are you kidding me?). Actually, I purposely lied. It's Ctrl-shift-right arrow for end of line, and Command to go to the end of the file. Like I said, not simpler
laureny 13y ago
> You know, I'm a mac convert through and through, but for a company that favors simplicity so much that they create mice with just one button, I've never quite understood why there are SO many modifier keys on a mac. The two are very closely related. Even though Jobs claimed for years that a secondary click was unnecessary, the market disagreed and very soon, applications started offering a context-sensitive menu, but since you only had one mouse button, you had to use a modifier to simulate that right click. Jobs never changed his mind, one of the things where he remained wrong until the very end (Macs never shipped with two button mice nor trackpads).
- moogleii 13y ago
  The new mouse detects double touch to show a context menu, though right? At least that's what I heard. I've always immediately discarded the included mice, windows or pc, for a logitech.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    The first Apple mouse to support right click was the Mighty Mouse, released all the way back in 2005. I believe it wasn't a double touch, but rather would detect what side of the mouse you were touching at the time. (This required you to lift up your left finger to do a right click, which was pretty dumb.) Not too long after, every Mac portable started shipping with trackpads that interpreted a two-finger click as a right click. The idea that Jobs never changed his mind on this is pretty obviously wrong.
- hazz 13y ago
  The 2006 era Apple Mighty Mouse had two buttons. It was just designed with a seamless exterior so you couldn't tell from looking at it.
  - MBCook 13y ago
    I believe it is also an option that had to be turned on in the OS, and that by default it still worked in one button mode. The thing I like about the "one button" philosophy is that it meant that you never needed to use the second button to access something. There was always a menu or some other way, the right-click was just a shortcut (so I've heard). There were things in Windows and common applications that couldn't be accessed without a right click. It's also less confusing for new computer users. Of course today, that's all basically gone. I'm sure some people use one button mice and are happy, but everyone I know ends up with a two button mouse or enabling the right-click function on the mighty mouse/trackpad. And it wouldn't surprise me if there were right-click only functions.
mikeash 13y ago
Here's an original Mac keyboard: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Keyboard.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Apple_Mac... It's remarkably simple compared to a modern one, Mac or PC. I believe the smaller key next to the Command key is Option. I think Option would have served as a way to access more obscure keyboard shortcuts and to enter "special" characters, as it is today, although I could easily be wrong going that far back. Note the total lack of a Control key, though, as well as fairly basic amenities like arrow keys. By the time of the Mac Plus, there was a numeric keypad and arrow keys, but still no Control: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Extended_Keyboard.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Exten... The Control key showed up with Apple Desktop Bus keyboards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_ADB_Keyboard.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_ADB_Keyboard.jpg Note the "proper" placement of Control and Caps Lock, unlike the universal wrongness we see today. I honestly do not know what purpose it served at the time. The main use of Control on the Mac, activating contextual menus in the absence of a right mouse button, didn't show up until about a decade later. My recollection from this period was that Control was very rarely used other than for things like talking to other systems that cared about those sorts of things through terminal emulators.
- nairteashop 13y ago
  This was very interesting, thank you. The original Mac keyboard you'd linked to is exactly what I would've expected from Apple. You're right about the control key. IIRC back in the day it was used to actually activate "control" characters that instructed the computer to do something (I suppose roughly equivalent to the Fn key today). It's a bummer that folks started mapping it to other things and it stayed on, vs. being merged with the Alt/Option key.
- Someone 13y ago
  Minor corrections/additions: - option was solely for entering text, not for commands. - there also was a separate numerical keypad (http://www.inanis.net/cm/index.php/Image:Macplus-p1_front.jpg http://www.inanis.net/cm/index.php/Image:Macplus-p1_front.jp...) that daisy-chained into the original keyboard. - control was indeed added for terminal emulators, and wasn't to be used for anything else.

dljsjr 13y ago

No different than Windows (Alt, Control, Shift, Windows Key, and fn on most laptops and modern multimedia keyboards), and on Linux the array of modifier keys can be dizzying (Super, Meta, Hyper, etc. GNU Emacs recognizes 5 modifier keys).

lake99 13y ago
But on Linux, if you carefully select window managers and programs, you'll have an easy answer to GP's questions "Anyone know the thinking behind this? Is it for historical reasons?" The answer is, "sure, I know the thinking behind this". I use Awesome WM. And I have configured practically every program I use. So, window management -> Windows (Super) modifer; editors -> Ctrl; Menubar -> Alt (can't change that); Funny chars -> AltGr (US International keyboard); Fn -> configured to whatever icon I see on the keyboard
nairteashop 13y ago
I agree with you that it's no more difficult that a Windows PC. It's just that when I moved to the Mac platform years ago, I found the general simplicity quite refreshing (yes, even the lack of a right-mouse button!) and was surprised that they hadn't done anything about the numerous keyboard modifiers.

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago

"⌘" is for menu commands. "option" is a modifier. "control" was originally introduced for contextual menu ("right click"), and also provides EMACS-like shortcuts (Ctrl+A = Home, Ctrl+E = End, etc.). So in fact, it is simpler because you don't have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown/Insert/Delete keys. It also avoids overloading the same key with commands and editing shortcuts.

lostlogin 13y ago
It may be simpler, but it isn't very Apple like. When you consider the enthusiasm Apple has for removing every button it can, it does seem odd.
- nairteashop 13y ago
  Exactly, it just seems out of place for Apple. During my Windows days, I had never wondered why there were so many keyboard buttons - my MS Intellimouse had 5 buttons all on its own :)
- __david__ 13y ago
  I think it makes sense. Those keys are for complicated tasks and they're entirely optional. Normal computer users don't ever need to touch those keys—You don't need Command-Left to go to the end of the line when you can just move the mouse and click there. The modifiers are there for you once you've mastered the simple way and want to improve your speed.
nairteashop 13y ago
Perhaps. I really think that the alt/option and control keys can be merged though. In many cases, control is actually used as a modifier. For example, ⌘ + ⇧ + 3 takes a screenshot and saves it on the desktop. What if you wanted to save it to the clipboard instead? You hold down the Control key, not the Option key, which to me would've been the logical choice here. BTW I fully realize that it is probably too late to remove any modifiers, but one can always hope :)
laureny 13y ago
> So in fact, it is simpler because you don't have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown/Insert/Delete keys. It's not simple: it has fewer keys, but that makes it more complex not less, and more prone to causing carpal tunnel syndrome (Command-shift-right arrow to select till the end of the line? Are you kidding me?). Actually, I purposely lied. It's Ctrl-shift-right arrow for end of line, and Command to go to the end of the file. Like I said, not simpler

laureny 13y ago

> You know, I'm a mac convert through and through, but for a company that favors simplicity so much that they create mice with just one button, I've never quite understood why there are SO many modifier keys on a mac. The two are very closely related. Even though Jobs claimed for years that a secondary click was unnecessary, the market disagreed and very soon, applications started offering a context-sensitive menu, but since you only had one mouse button, you had to use a modifier to simulate that right click. Jobs never changed his mind, one of the things where he remained wrong until the very end (Macs never shipped with two button mice nor trackpads).

moogleii 13y ago
The new mouse detects double touch to show a context menu, though right? At least that's what I heard. I've always immediately discarded the included mice, windows or pc, for a logitech.
- mikeash 13y ago
  The first Apple mouse to support right click was the Mighty Mouse, released all the way back in 2005. I believe it wasn't a double touch, but rather would detect what side of the mouse you were touching at the time. (This required you to lift up your left finger to do a right click, which was pretty dumb.) Not too long after, every Mac portable started shipping with trackpads that interpreted a two-finger click as a right click. The idea that Jobs never changed his mind on this is pretty obviously wrong.
hazz 13y ago
The 2006 era Apple Mighty Mouse had two buttons. It was just designed with a seamless exterior so you couldn't tell from looking at it.
- MBCook 13y ago
  I believe it is also an option that had to be turned on in the OS, and that by default it still worked in one button mode. The thing I like about the "one button" philosophy is that it meant that you never needed to use the second button to access something. There was always a menu or some other way, the right-click was just a shortcut (so I've heard). There were things in Windows and common applications that couldn't be accessed without a right click. It's also less confusing for new computer users. Of course today, that's all basically gone. I'm sure some people use one button mice and are happy, but everyone I know ends up with a two button mouse or enabling the right-click function on the mighty mouse/trackpad. And it wouldn't surprise me if there were right-click only functions.

mikeash 13y ago

Here's an original Mac keyboard: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Keyboard.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Apple_Mac... It's remarkably simple compared to a modern one, Mac or PC. I believe the smaller key next to the Command key is Option. I think Option would have served as a way to access more obscure keyboard shortcuts and to enter "special" characters, as it is today, although I could easily be wrong going that far back. Note the total lack of a Control key, though, as well as fairly basic amenities like arrow keys. By the time of the Mac Plus, there was a numeric keypad and arrow keys, but still no Control: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Extended_Keyboard.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Exten... The Control key showed up with Apple Desktop Bus keyboards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_ADB_Keyboard.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_ADB_Keyboard.jpg Note the "proper" placement of Control and Caps Lock, unlike the universal wrongness we see today. I honestly do not know what purpose it served at the time. The main use of Control on the Mac, activating contextual menus in the absence of a right mouse button, didn't show up until about a decade later. My recollection from this period was that Control was very rarely used other than for things like talking to other systems that cared about those sorts of things through terminal emulators.

nairteashop 13y ago
This was very interesting, thank you. The original Mac keyboard you'd linked to is exactly what I would've expected from Apple. You're right about the control key. IIRC back in the day it was used to actually activate "control" characters that instructed the computer to do something (I suppose roughly equivalent to the Fn key today). It's a bummer that folks started mapping it to other things and it stayed on, vs. being merged with the Alt/Option key.
Someone 13y ago
Minor corrections/additions: - option was solely for entering text, not for commands. - there also was a separate numerical keypad (http://www.inanis.net/cm/index.php/Image:Macplus-p1_front.jpg http://www.inanis.net/cm/index.php/Image:Macplus-p1_front.jp...) that daisy-chained into the original keyboard. - control was indeed added for terminal emulators, and wasn't to be used for anything else.