7 ms·

It seems like the topic of QF is appearing more frequently these days on HN. I guess it's a sign of the times after an absence after the implosion of 2008. Ther

by siavosh 14y ago

It seems like the topic of QF is appearing more frequently these days on HN. I guess it's a sign of the times after an absence after the implosion of 2008. There also seems to be general leveling off of posts on how awesome working for startups are compared to 2008/9 and the exodus of talent from wall street. Sign of the times I guess. Makes me think we're headed back to the 'good old days.' This is all a bit depressing cause I feel like the conclusion a lot of society had reached in 2008 was that finance should be boring, simple, and shouldn't attract too much brain power from other fields.

niggler 14y ago
I think most of the easy money in startups has been made (and from here on out the dumb ideas that raised millions of dollars won't see as much money), so people are jumping back to finance. There was never a real exodus of talent. The really talented people weathered the storm, and it seemed as if a whole bunch of B-people switched over and are now considering switching back.
- freyr 14y ago
  Yeah, it's been weeks since anybody's purchased a useless half-baked app for $30M. The bubble must be over.
  - niggler 14y ago
    It's been more than a year since anybody's purchased an app with zero revenue for $1B. I should clarify that I don't think the bubble is over yet, but the euphoria stage has passed
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
freyr 14y ago
I've noticed it too. I think many of us believe that the size of the financial sector is extremely disproportionate to the value it adds. It drains talent by offering smart people salaries that other industries can't afford. It gambles with the economy recklessly, but the public pays the debt when their gambles turn sour. And on, and on. But let's face facts. I'd love to think everybody's really here to "change the world" and "create value." But the biggest stories in tech entrepreneurship focus on silly, time-wasting apps that are sold for millions. Does that really make any more sense than giving a guy a million dollar bonus for designing a high frequency trading algorithm? If we don't expect more from our community, we can't really criticize theirs.
- minimax 14y ago
  "It drains talent by offering smart people salaries that other industries can't afford." Bullshit. The difference is that in finance (trading, at least), good technology is seen as a competitive advantage that makes a meaningful impact on P&L. When financial companies do well they tend to share the love in the form of cash bonuses. This is a strategy other industries could adopt but choose not to. Also one other nit, there are only a few companies (the megabanks) that are big enough to have a government backstop if they blow up. There is a whole world of smaller outfits doing business without any such guarantee.
  - freyr 14y ago
    The mean salary in New York City's finance industry rose from $80,000 in 1981 to $360,000 in 2011, while average New York City salaries rose from $40,000 to $70,000. You may be right, but I just don't think there are a lot of tech companies that could offer a mean salary of $360,000 and remain profitable. Especially small to medium size companies. Compare that to hedge funds, which were basically printing money and could pay their small staffs extremely large salaries (and even larger bonuses).
    - rayiner 14y ago
      Google and Microsoft are in the same ballpark of profitability per employee as say Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. The difference is that financial firms take pride in how much they pay their employees, while tech firms do things like collude to depress employee wages.
      - wtvanhest 14y ago
        This couldn't be more true. I got an offer at Intel after working there for the summer. A finance company asked what they were paying and decimated Intel's offer. Upon telling Intel the recruiter at Intel demanded to know where I was going. Luckily I wasn't going to Apple, Adobe (or one of the other companies they allegedly had illegal no competes with or I would have no job at all.

by siavosh 14y ago

niggler 14y ago

I think most of the easy money in startups has been made (and from here on out the dumb ideas that raised millions of dollars won't see as much money), so people are jumping back to finance. There was never a real exodus of talent. The really talented people weathered the storm, and it seemed as if a whole bunch of B-people switched over and are now considering switching back.

freyr 14y ago
Yeah, it's been weeks since anybody's purchased a useless half-baked app for $30M. The bubble must be over.
- niggler 14y ago
  It's been more than a year since anybody's purchased an app with zero revenue for $1B. I should clarify that I don't think the bubble is over yet, but the euphoria stage has passed
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

freyr 14y ago

I've noticed it too. I think many of us believe that the size of the financial sector is extremely disproportionate to the value it adds. It drains talent by offering smart people salaries that other industries can't afford. It gambles with the economy recklessly, but the public pays the debt when their gambles turn sour. And on, and on. But let's face facts. I'd love to think everybody's really here to "change the world" and "create value." But the biggest stories in tech entrepreneurship focus on silly, time-wasting apps that are sold for millions. Does that really make any more sense than giving a guy a million dollar bonus for designing a high frequency trading algorithm? If we don't expect more from our community, we can't really criticize theirs.

minimax 14y ago
"It drains talent by offering smart people salaries that other industries can't afford." Bullshit. The difference is that in finance (trading, at least), good technology is seen as a competitive advantage that makes a meaningful impact on P&L. When financial companies do well they tend to share the love in the form of cash bonuses. This is a strategy other industries could adopt but choose not to. Also one other nit, there are only a few companies (the megabanks) that are big enough to have a government backstop if they blow up. There is a whole world of smaller outfits doing business without any such guarantee.
- freyr 14y ago
  The mean salary in New York City's finance industry rose from $80,000 in 1981 to $360,000 in 2011, while average New York City salaries rose from $40,000 to $70,000. You may be right, but I just don't think there are a lot of tech companies that could offer a mean salary of $360,000 and remain profitable. Especially small to medium size companies. Compare that to hedge funds, which were basically printing money and could pay their small staffs extremely large salaries (and even larger bonuses).
  - rayiner 14y ago
    Google and Microsoft are in the same ballpark of profitability per employee as say Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. The difference is that financial firms take pride in how much they pay their employees, while tech firms do things like collude to depress employee wages.
    - wtvanhest 14y ago
      This couldn't be more true. I got an offer at Intel after working there for the summer. A finance company asked what they were paying and decimated Intel's offer. Upon telling Intel the recruiter at Intel demanded to know where I was going. Luckily I wasn't going to Apple, Adobe (or one of the other companies they allegedly had illegal no competes with or I would have no job at all.