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Can they actually hold off collective might of media houses and billionaires who actually call the shots and make politicians dance to their tunes, mostly becau

by fakeer 13y ago

Can they actually hold off collective might of media houses and billionaires who actually call the shots and make politicians dance to their tunes, mostly because of they have taken the dirty money? What if the bullies resort to proxy arm twisting? One must remember Iceland was invaded[1] by the British during WW2! PS. An invasion is an invasion even if it was said that the invasion was to pre-empt another invasion. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Iceland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Iceland [update: invasion in a sense as to coerce a country to achieve desired result by hook or by crook]

cbg0 13y ago
I doubt anyone's going to invade Iceland because of TPB.
- arethuza 13y ago
  I'm sure something more subtle would be used - like delaying their application for EU membership, which is currently in the works.
  - heidar 13y ago
    Most Icelanders do not want to join the EU. The two political parties with the current greatest following which will probably be elected for a new government next Saturday also oppose joining the EU.
    - cinquemb 13y ago
      And seeing as how well the EU has been to the PIIGS, i would say that most Icelanders are being rational.
      - jacoblyles 13y ago
        Didn't the EU give billions of Euros in handouts to the PIIGS? They have unsustainable economies due to excessive public welfare programs and unfavorable demographics. Being outside the EU wouldn't magically solve those problems, though it would let them monetize some debt.
        cinquemb 13y ago
        "though it would let them monetize some debt" And there you have it. Yes the problems won't magically go away. "They have unsustainable economies due to excessive public welfare programs and unfavorable demographics" can be said about most countries. But of course GDP growth y/y is sustainable ad infinitum. Here in the USA, when we run out of money we can print some more and pass the cost to nations who use the USD in foreign exchange (Kudos for China and Australia for trying to get out of this hole). But in the EU, they have to appease the troika before they run some database queries. (And as we have seen with cyprus, now you also have to sell an arm and a leg, what's next?) In the world where central banks are openly buying stock with their freshly minted database queries…what could go wrong?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
archgrove 13y ago
I'm not really sure it's bullying per se, to try and stop the mass illegal downloading of your content. It's not like they've got thugs at the door, they're just trying to shut down a site who's sole purpose is enabling the illegal downloading, and who has no interest in co-operating with even nicely worded, fair requests. I'm not a great fan of the entertainment industry, but if people were doing this to YC startups who focus on IP production, would the level of "support" be the same? I mean, what alternative do people suggest for these companies? That they ignore it, thus tacitly approve it, until everyone uses and doesn't bother with legal avenues? I hear a lot about "Well, find a new business model!", without explaining why a company should be forced to change based on clearly illegal activity. Even accepting the pragmatic argument that "It's going to happen anyway", I'm curious as to what business model people are suggesting?
- nitrogen 13y ago
  I hear a lot about "Well, find a new business model!", without explaining why a company should be forced to change based on clearly illegal activity. This is begging the question. The activity is illegal in the first place because of lobbying by the recording industry starting in the late 1800s/early 1900s.
  - api 13y ago
    So if you start a startup, you're totally fine if I take your code, your logo, your copyrights, and your name and create a copycat site and take your customers? You're okay with that? If so, please send me the details so I can keep an eye on you. Anyone else who's so inclined, reply as well. I'd love to grab a few zero-effort passive income generators.
    - Anderkent 13y ago
      No, I'm not okay with that, but I don't think someone who linked to that copycat site is committing a crime!
      - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
publicfig 13y ago
"[update: invasion in a sense as to coerce a country to achieve desired result by hook or by crook]" That's not even close to invasion if that's what you meant. I really can't imagine that anyone would come close to invading Iceland just because they host a domain.
- etvmueller 13y ago
  I agree that an aggressor is unlikely to invade Iceland for resolving The Pirate Bay domain, but there remains the possibility for all states that a farcical reason is used to obfuscate the real reason for an invasion.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  What do you mean? It's already been done in response to Wikileaks: https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+iceland https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+iceland
  - valdiorn 13y ago
    Yes, and they got sent right back home before they could spell the name of their employer. And the supreme court just trashed Mastercard for denying service to Wikileaks and its payment provider, DataCell. The verdict includes daily fines that would amount to 2.5 million dollars a year if they choose to continue denying services. (800k ISK daily fines = 292 million ISK yearly ~ 2.54 million USD) I have high hopes for my country, and I know I'll be the first to go protest if they try to shut it down. Also, The Pirate Bay and file sharing in general has HUGE public support and the response in icelandic media has been nothing but positive, with responses from SMAIS (the icelandic version of RIAA/MPAA) being ridiculed and mocked.
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      I meant no disrespect to Iceland :-). Everything I hear makes it sound like a fantastic place. I was only pointing out that other countries, like the US, don't always share the same definition of "fantastic," and will exert pressure from all sides on countries that don't conform to their will.
etvmueller 13y ago
It would be more likely to interfere with Iceland's connection to the world financial system, for example to burden that connection with regulatory hurdles or to even suspend it, than to use overt military force, because that strategy could be hidden from the average citizen of the aggressor, whereas an invasion would ultimately require an explanation and much political capital.

by fakeer 13y ago

cbg0 13y ago

I doubt anyone's going to invade Iceland because of TPB.

arethuza 13y ago
I'm sure something more subtle would be used - like delaying their application for EU membership, which is currently in the works.
- heidar 13y ago
  Most Icelanders do not want to join the EU. The two political parties with the current greatest following which will probably be elected for a new government next Saturday also oppose joining the EU.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    And seeing as how well the EU has been to the PIIGS, i would say that most Icelanders are being rational.
    - jacoblyles 13y ago
      Didn't the EU give billions of Euros in handouts to the PIIGS? They have unsustainable economies due to excessive public welfare programs and unfavorable demographics. Being outside the EU wouldn't magically solve those problems, though it would let them monetize some debt.
      - cinquemb 13y ago
        "though it would let them monetize some debt" And there you have it. Yes the problems won't magically go away. "They have unsustainable economies due to excessive public welfare programs and unfavorable demographics" can be said about most countries. But of course GDP growth y/y is sustainable ad infinitum. Here in the USA, when we run out of money we can print some more and pass the cost to nations who use the USD in foreign exchange (Kudos for China and Australia for trying to get out of this hole). But in the EU, they have to appease the troika before they run some database queries. (And as we have seen with cyprus, now you also have to sell an arm and a leg, what's next?) In the world where central banks are openly buying stock with their freshly minted database queries…what could go wrong?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

archgrove 13y ago

I'm not really sure it's bullying per se, to try and stop the mass illegal downloading of your content. It's not like they've got thugs at the door, they're just trying to shut down a site who's sole purpose is enabling the illegal downloading, and who has no interest in co-operating with even nicely worded, fair requests. I'm not a great fan of the entertainment industry, but if people were doing this to YC startups who focus on IP production, would the level of "support" be the same? I mean, what alternative do people suggest for these companies? That they ignore it, thus tacitly approve it, until everyone uses and doesn't bother with legal avenues? I hear a lot about "Well, find a new business model!", without explaining why a company should be forced to change based on clearly illegal activity. Even accepting the pragmatic argument that "It's going to happen anyway", I'm curious as to what business model people are suggesting?

nitrogen 13y ago
I hear a lot about "Well, find a new business model!", without explaining why a company should be forced to change based on clearly illegal activity. This is begging the question. The activity is illegal in the first place because of lobbying by the recording industry starting in the late 1800s/early 1900s.
- api 13y ago
  So if you start a startup, you're totally fine if I take your code, your logo, your copyrights, and your name and create a copycat site and take your customers? You're okay with that? If so, please send me the details so I can keep an eye on you. Anyone else who's so inclined, reply as well. I'd love to grab a few zero-effort passive income generators.
  - Anderkent 13y ago
    No, I'm not okay with that, but I don't think someone who linked to that copycat site is committing a crime!
    - 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

publicfig 13y ago

"[update: invasion in a sense as to coerce a country to achieve desired result by hook or by crook]" That's not even close to invasion if that's what you meant. I really can't imagine that anyone would come close to invading Iceland just because they host a domain.

etvmueller 13y ago
I agree that an aggressor is unlikely to invade Iceland for resolving The Pirate Bay domain, but there remains the possibility for all states that a farcical reason is used to obfuscate the real reason for an invasion.
nitrogen 13y ago
What do you mean? It's already been done in response to Wikileaks: https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+iceland https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+iceland
- valdiorn 13y ago
  Yes, and they got sent right back home before they could spell the name of their employer. And the supreme court just trashed Mastercard for denying service to Wikileaks and its payment provider, DataCell. The verdict includes daily fines that would amount to 2.5 million dollars a year if they choose to continue denying services. (800k ISK daily fines = 292 million ISK yearly ~ 2.54 million USD) I have high hopes for my country, and I know I'll be the first to go protest if they try to shut it down. Also, The Pirate Bay and file sharing in general has HUGE public support and the response in icelandic media has been nothing but positive, with responses from SMAIS (the icelandic version of RIAA/MPAA) being ridiculed and mocked.
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    I meant no disrespect to Iceland :-). Everything I hear makes it sound like a fantastic place. I was only pointing out that other countries, like the US, don't always share the same definition of "fantastic," and will exert pressure from all sides on countries that don't conform to their will.

etvmueller 13y ago

It would be more likely to interfere with Iceland's connection to the world financial system, for example to burden that connection with regulatory hurdles or to even suspend it, than to use overt military force, because that strategy could be hidden from the average citizen of the aggressor, whereas an invasion would ultimately require an explanation and much political capital.