5 ms·

Well, I'm referring to Egyptians specifically, who aren't technically African-Americans. According to the consensus, we're Caucasian.

by kyro 13y ago

ecspike 13y ago
An Egyptian who immigrated to America fits the criteria for being considered African-American. IMHO Skin color isn't the only designation.
- irollboozers 13y ago
  For most of these cases, skin color is the lowest common denominator that allows them to game the system. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-...
- vacri 13y ago
  The term African-American is just out-and-out silly. I've seen American media refer to a black British model who worked in France as 'African-American' - despite her being neither African nor American. Born in England, but labelled American because of her skin. Isn't that an own-goal?
  - tsotha 13y ago
    Heh heh. Who was it that referred to people in Chad as "African American Africans"? Some politician. And who is more African American that someone like Teresa Heinz Kerry, who was born in Mozambique and is a naturalized citizen? Yeah, it's a stupid term.
    - JonnieCache 13y ago
      I hear it is a particular problem for jamaican people as well, with their shall we say, complex relationship to african identity.
- entangld 13y ago
  We do live in America, so your actual ethnicity matters, but not as much as what people think you are on first glance (i.e. police, interviewers, etc). Race is something that affects people's lives in the real world, beyond boxes on applications. This argument is becoming a little academic.
- 616c 13y ago
  I disagree. Arabs are considered Caucasian in some parts. An anecdote: Egyptian friend studies abroad in the US, gets arrested visiting New York state for very overdue parking tickets he was unaware of (studying elsewhere in the US). They bring him to the station, and the cops attempt to fill in the paperwork, and they admit to my friend they are not sure what to fill in. In the end, they look in their procedure book, and said he is Arab and that is considered a subset of Caucasian in their definition. I was actually surprised by this.
  - taejo 13y ago
    Whether Arabs are caucasian or not is not GP's point: it's that someone who was born in Africa, and lives in America, can fairly consider themselves to be African-American, just on that basis.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
I thought Egyptians were ethnically Arabs?
- lukejduncan 13y ago
  Arabs are classified as Caucasian
  - iskander 13y ago
    Race in America is such a messy clustering of arbitrary phenotypic and cultural features. I wonder what our "racial" categories would look like if people treated these groupings as a statistical problem, rather than some sort of given natural phenomenon. Maybe we'd just give up on the concept all together?
    - scarmig 13y ago
      People do display distinct genetic clustering based on ancestral geography. If someone has your DNA, they can tell with high certainty where your ancestors came from. Of course, a substantial number of white Americans would be surprised by discovering they had ancestors from Africa in the recent past. (Most African-Americans, on the other hand, wouldn't be too surprised to find out many of them have European ancestry.)
      - iskander 13y ago
        >People do display distinct genetic clustering based on ancestral geography. For sure! But I suspect the most meaningful coarse clusters might end up being some large number of divisions of sub-saharan africa and then everyone else. Definitely not the "White", "Black", "Asian" categories people in the states take for granted. And even ignoring the amazing diversity of Africa (compared with the rest of the world), did the Irish become more genetically white when they became culturally accepted as white? Did Latin Americans of European descent become less genetically white when people further North stopped viewing them that way? Why do some races trump others (i.e., why is Barack Obama considered black)? The boundaries of these categories seem very arbitrary and not derived by any rigorous means at all.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

Well, I'm referring to Egyptians specifically, who aren't technically African-Americans. According to the consensus, we're Caucasian.

by kyro 13y ago

Well, I'm referring to Egyptians specifically, who aren't technically African-Americans. According to the consensus, we're Caucasian.

ecspike 13y ago

An Egyptian who immigrated to America fits the criteria for being considered African-American. IMHO Skin color isn't the only designation.

irollboozers 13y ago
For most of these cases, skin color is the lowest common denominator that allows them to game the system. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-...
vacri 13y ago
The term African-American is just out-and-out silly. I've seen American media refer to a black British model who worked in France as 'African-American' - despite her being neither African nor American. Born in England, but labelled American because of her skin. Isn't that an own-goal?
- tsotha 13y ago
  Heh heh. Who was it that referred to people in Chad as "African American Africans"? Some politician. And who is more African American that someone like Teresa Heinz Kerry, who was born in Mozambique and is a naturalized citizen? Yeah, it's a stupid term.
  - JonnieCache 13y ago
    I hear it is a particular problem for jamaican people as well, with their shall we say, complex relationship to african identity.
entangld 13y ago
We do live in America, so your actual ethnicity matters, but not as much as what people think you are on first glance (i.e. police, interviewers, etc). Race is something that affects people's lives in the real world, beyond boxes on applications. This argument is becoming a little academic.
616c 13y ago
I disagree. Arabs are considered Caucasian in some parts. An anecdote: Egyptian friend studies abroad in the US, gets arrested visiting New York state for very overdue parking tickets he was unaware of (studying elsewhere in the US). They bring him to the station, and the cops attempt to fill in the paperwork, and they admit to my friend they are not sure what to fill in. In the end, they look in their procedure book, and said he is Arab and that is considered a subset of Caucasian in their definition. I was actually surprised by this.
- taejo 13y ago
  Whether Arabs are caucasian or not is not GP's point: it's that someone who was born in Africa, and lives in America, can fairly consider themselves to be African-American, just on that basis.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

I thought Egyptians were ethnically Arabs?

lukejduncan 13y ago
Arabs are classified as Caucasian
- iskander 13y ago
  Race in America is such a messy clustering of arbitrary phenotypic and cultural features. I wonder what our "racial" categories would look like if people treated these groupings as a statistical problem, rather than some sort of given natural phenomenon. Maybe we'd just give up on the concept all together?
  - scarmig 13y ago
    People do display distinct genetic clustering based on ancestral geography. If someone has your DNA, they can tell with high certainty where your ancestors came from. Of course, a substantial number of white Americans would be surprised by discovering they had ancestors from Africa in the recent past. (Most African-Americans, on the other hand, wouldn't be too surprised to find out many of them have European ancestry.)
    - iskander 13y ago
      >People do display distinct genetic clustering based on ancestral geography. For sure! But I suspect the most meaningful coarse clusters might end up being some large number of divisions of sub-saharan africa and then everyone else. Definitely not the "White", "Black", "Asian" categories people in the states take for granted. And even ignoring the amazing diversity of Africa (compared with the rest of the world), did the Irish become more genetically white when they became culturally accepted as white? Did Latin Americans of European descent become less genetically white when people further North stopped viewing them that way? Why do some races trump others (i.e., why is Barack Obama considered black)? The boundaries of these categories seem very arbitrary and not derived by any rigorous means at all.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]