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A former admissions officer of a good medical school in California once told me that the way it works is that they separate applicants based on ethnicity, and t
by kyro 13y ago
A former admissions officer of a good medical school in California once told me that the way it works is that they separate applicants based on ethnicity, and they then look at the top 5% of each stack. His words were "so if you're Asian with a 3.9gpa, good luck, you're a dime a dozen. But if you're an African American with a 3.4gpa, you're getting in." On top of that, many who share my ethnicity -- a minority in even our native country -- put down African American or, what's now the trendy thing to do, Underrepresented Minority, because they know it gives them a huge edge over the competition. I don't fault them for it. The whole application process is one big game and they're learning how to play it to their advantage.
- tokenadult 13y agoThe procedure you describe was declared illegal in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, so I doubt that the statement you heard accurately describes the medical school's admission procedure. The first comment I posted in this thread, which links to an extensive FAQ about college admission procedures in the United States, gives the citation for the Supreme Court cases on the issue and the current federal regulations. AFTER EDIT: If, on the other hand, the statement is factually correct about that school's procedure, some denied applicant has a very good basis for a lawsuit under current federal law.
- argonaut 13y agoTokenadult, what the parent said is not necessarily a quota. For many good medical schools, if you sum up the top 5% of every ethnicity of apllicants, you still get far more applicants than there are spaces. edit: what I said about public schools is incorrect.
- kyro 13y agoI don't think that case applies at all to what I'm saying. What I was told was that the applicant pool that gets looked at is comprised of the top 5% of every ethnic category. There was no implicit or explicit mention of seats allotted for minorities, which seems to be the subject of the lawsuit you mentioned.
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- smtddr 13y agoI was kinda shocked when I saw you didn't fault people for putting down african americans... until I re-read your comment and realized you didn't mean put down as in "insult" them... you meant put down as in write down in the college application that they are african american when in fact they really weren't.
- kyro 13y agoWell, I'm referring to Egyptians specifically, who aren't technically African-Americans. According to the consensus, we're Caucasian.
- ecspike 13y agoAn Egyptian who immigrated to America fits the criteria for being considered African-American. IMHO Skin color isn't the only designation.
- irollboozers 13y agoFor most of these cases, skin color is the lowest common denominator that allows them to game the system. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-03/asian-students-college-applications/51620236/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-12-...
- vacri 13y agoThe term African-American is just out-and-out silly. I've seen American media refer to a black British model who worked in France as 'African-American' - despite her being neither African nor American. Born in England, but labelled American because of her skin. Isn't that an own-goal?
- tsotha 13y agoHeh heh. Who was it that referred to people in Chad as "African American Africans"? Some politician. And who is more African American that someone like Teresa Heinz Kerry, who was born in Mozambique and is a naturalized citizen? Yeah, it's a stupid term.
- newnewnew 13y agoMedical schools have some of the strongest affirmative action: http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/04/medical-school-acceptance-rates-for-2010-2012-reflect-racial-preferences-for-blacks-and-hispanics/ http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/04/medical-school-acceptance-r...
- rdtsc 13y agoWhy is that? Do they implicitly acknowledge that it doesn't take a smart person to become a doctor as long as they get admitted and can get a loan?
- kmax12 13y agoone justification I've heard is that doctor like to serve communities they came from. thus, affirmative action ensures minorities have access to doctors.
- eurleif 13y agoWhy not make admissions based on geography, then?
- SoftwareMaven 13y agoServing the community is a different thing than serving in a community. "The" community tends to be "people like the people I've grown up with and lived around most of my life." I can find a community almost anywhere I live. In other words, a Hispanic doctor from LA might find a comfortable life in Miami serving the Hispanics there[1], whereas he may be completely uncomfortable serving a largely white, affluent neighborhood in the LA basin. 1. I have no idea if this is true or not; I'm just laying out the hypothetical of my GP.
- saraid216 13y agoBy "geography" do you mean separate urban neighborhoods as well as large rural tracts? Not everyone goes home after they graduate.
- smoyer 13y agoWhen my eldest daughter had her visit at Princeton, it was pretty obvious that there was no cap at 5% Asian. On the other hand, why should they? My youngest daughter was adopted from Korea, but our family heritage is almost entirely Swiss-German ... She's been part of our family since she was 11 months old, and she loves the ethnic German foods we eat (mostly Pennsylvania-Dutch type cooking), but is also fond of many Korean dishes (such as Bulgogi). What should an admissions office consider her ethnicity? A twist on the classic nature versus nurture conversation.
- argonaut 13y agokyro did not claim there was a 5% cap on the proportion of Asians at schools. He claimed that the admissions pool was drawn out of the top 5% of each ethnic bracket. Those are two different things.
- smoyer 13y agoThanks for pointing that out ... I missed it as I read the article. In that case, I can tell you that the pool of WASP kids (like my daughter) at Princeton consisted of those who had "almost perfect" SAT scores, documented extra-curricular activities, proof of social awareness (best shown by volunteer work with disadvantaged populations) and good interview skills. I'd say it's pretty hard to get into that population as well.
- bradleyjg 13y agoWASP stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestent. It sounds like your daughter doesn't qualify on at least two counts, and even a biological daughter would fail on at least one. N.B. Decendents of the Jutes, Angels, and Saxons who remained behind when those tribes invaded England are not referred to as Anglo-Saxons.
- auctiontheory 13y agoIf this is the same daughter, I think you just told us that she is not a WASP! (Maybe a 'P'!)
- hnriot 13y agoGiven that this is illegal, either they're making it up, or this is why they are no longer an admissions officer.
- theorique 13y agoWhat if you put down "underrepresented minority" and you aren't one? I mean, I could claim that there are "too few" (whatever that means) Estonians in a given medical school and claim minority status.
- fakeer 13y agoIs there a verification process after application process ends?