7 ms·

Tech Companies That Only Hire Men

11 points by socialengineer 13y ago

andrewmcgrath 13y ago
I cant see anyone letting something like this hit the public on purpose, big HR slip, but its certainly interesting insight to the hiring manager / person who wrote the job description. If i were to go into that interview as not a man, i would feel disadvantaged.
- flootch 13y ago
  If you were to come to my job interview, I would probably agree you are disadvantaged. :(
  - andrewmcgrath 13y ago
    Why is that?
russell 13y ago
Sorry, they are using correct English. The male gender is used for the gender neutral case. We need something that is truly gender neutral, but all attempts sound wrong to anyone who made it through high school English. S/he is unpronounceable. They sounds strange when talking about a single individual, but kind of works. You works somewhat, but in an employment ad sounds like something out of "Mission Impossible".
- tks2103 13y ago
  please cite a source for "The male gender is used for the gender neutral case". as far as i can tell, this is an issue with no clean solution in modern English. 'he or she' is the most reasonable option in my opinion. it is cumbersome, but that is better than sexist or grammatically incorrect. 'we are looking for a technical lead. he or she will have three years experience as a lead developer or similar role.'
  - astrange 13y ago
    Singular third person "they" is widely attested and there is no grammatical problem with it at all. It's even in Shakespeare. You can use it, and if anyone complains about it, don't hire them.
    - gizmo686 13y ago
      Shakespeare is not good english. His work is old, and the language has evolved, and his work is poetry. Also, citation needed for using 'they' as singular. Apart from the fact that it very strongly sounds plural, one of my personal pet peeves with English is the fact that we do not have a singular plural differentiation in the second person. As long as we are re-working pronouns, lets not repeat that mistake. When I am trying to be careful and gender neutral (for something that needs to be speakable, so no (s)he), I try to structure it to use either 'one' or 'that person' in place of (s)he.
      - franklinho 13y ago
        While I was also taught that using "he" as a gender neutral pronoun was good english, it looks like that has fallen out of favor. Seems to be an artifact of older formally trained english teachers. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30455/is-using-he-for-a-gender-neutral-third-person-correct http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30455/is-using-he... Using "he" has fallen out of fashion. Call me a purist though, but I still detest using "they". It doesn't seem right.
        Kudzu_Bob 13y ago
        It isn't right. What it is is humiliating. And humiliation is the entire point.
        salahxanadu 13y ago
        I sincerely doubt anyone would ever have any ulterior motives like that. Is the whole world out to get you?
kellishaver 13y ago
There was a post on HN jobs a little while back about a startup looking for a "front end guy" which reiterated several times throughout the post that they "need a guy" and if "you're the guy" to contact them. The job sounded great otherwise, and was definitely one I would have been interested in, but I felt immediately disqualified and annoyed. Normally these types of things don't bother me and I often think people read too much into things, but for some reason, that one did. Maybe it was the casual nature of the writing. It made it seem more personal, which, in turn, made it seem like the author was making it clear that they actually weren't interested in hiring women, that they legitimately felt as if a man was needed to fill the role properly, or that the idea of hiring a woman was so foreign to them that it hadn't even crossed their minds. It was very off-putting.
- flootch 13y ago
  fwiw (maybe nothing) I know what you mean about finding certain job postings off-putting. For myself, I don't think it has as much to do with the job posting itself as much as it may have to do with how I am feeling about myself at the moment, and how much I hate the rest of the world. I can understand and won't argue about your being a woman and being put off by "the guy" language. I'd probably feel the same way, if only because I am 50 and "the guy" seems very young.
  - kellishaver 13y ago
    Yeah, I probably have about 10 years on "the guy," myself. I guess it was the casual assumption that a man would be the one filling the position. In a lot of ways those unintentional biases are worse than intentional ones.
salahxanadu 13y ago
This is dumb. It's merely pointing out pronouns. Should it be he/she everywhere or it? Gender neutral is often 'he'. Should we now say that 'all men are created equal'? Is it splitting hairs yet? Nobody is telling women not to get into tech things. I don't know whether it is general interest or what, but it should not engender such divisive hate. I think we need more positive role models. Less of this pointless vitriol.
- beyondavatars 13y ago
  I just think women would read this and believe that this company is looking for a male, not a female. I know I would. It would emphasize a bro type of environment. Your only reference to "he" being gener neutral was from the 1700s... do you have a modern example?

I cant see anyone letting something like this hit the public on purpose, big HR slip, but its certainly interesting insight to the hiring manager / person who wrote the job description. If i were to go into that interview as not a man, i would feel disadvantaged.

flootch 13y ago
If you were to come to my job interview, I would probably agree you are disadvantaged. :(
- andrewmcgrath 13y ago
  Why is that?

russell 13y ago

Sorry, they are using correct English. The male gender is used for the gender neutral case. We need something that is truly gender neutral, but all attempts sound wrong to anyone who made it through high school English. S/he is unpronounceable. They sounds strange when talking about a single individual, but kind of works. You works somewhat, but in an employment ad sounds like something out of "Mission Impossible".

tks2103 13y ago
please cite a source for "The male gender is used for the gender neutral case". as far as i can tell, this is an issue with no clean solution in modern English. 'he or she' is the most reasonable option in my opinion. it is cumbersome, but that is better than sexist or grammatically incorrect. 'we are looking for a technical lead. he or she will have three years experience as a lead developer or similar role.'
- astrange 13y ago
  Singular third person "they" is widely attested and there is no grammatical problem with it at all. It's even in Shakespeare. You can use it, and if anyone complains about it, don't hire them.
  - gizmo686 13y ago
    Shakespeare is not good english. His work is old, and the language has evolved, and his work is poetry. Also, citation needed for using 'they' as singular. Apart from the fact that it very strongly sounds plural, one of my personal pet peeves with English is the fact that we do not have a singular plural differentiation in the second person. As long as we are re-working pronouns, lets not repeat that mistake. When I am trying to be careful and gender neutral (for something that needs to be speakable, so no (s)he), I try to structure it to use either 'one' or 'that person' in place of (s)he.
    - franklinho 13y ago
      While I was also taught that using "he" as a gender neutral pronoun was good english, it looks like that has fallen out of favor. Seems to be an artifact of older formally trained english teachers. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30455/is-using-he-for-a-gender-neutral-third-person-correct http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30455/is-using-he... Using "he" has fallen out of fashion. Call me a purist though, but I still detest using "they". It doesn't seem right.
      - Kudzu_Bob 13y ago
        It isn't right. What it is is humiliating. And humiliation is the entire point.
        salahxanadu 13y ago
        I sincerely doubt anyone would ever have any ulterior motives like that. Is the whole world out to get you?

kellishaver 13y ago

There was a post on HN jobs a little while back about a startup looking for a "front end guy" which reiterated several times throughout the post that they "need a guy" and if "you're the guy" to contact them. The job sounded great otherwise, and was definitely one I would have been interested in, but I felt immediately disqualified and annoyed. Normally these types of things don't bother me and I often think people read too much into things, but for some reason, that one did. Maybe it was the casual nature of the writing. It made it seem more personal, which, in turn, made it seem like the author was making it clear that they actually weren't interested in hiring women, that they legitimately felt as if a man was needed to fill the role properly, or that the idea of hiring a woman was so foreign to them that it hadn't even crossed their minds. It was very off-putting.

flootch 13y ago
fwiw (maybe nothing) I know what you mean about finding certain job postings off-putting. For myself, I don't think it has as much to do with the job posting itself as much as it may have to do with how I am feeling about myself at the moment, and how much I hate the rest of the world. I can understand and won't argue about your being a woman and being put off by "the guy" language. I'd probably feel the same way, if only because I am 50 and "the guy" seems very young.
- kellishaver 13y ago
  Yeah, I probably have about 10 years on "the guy," myself. I guess it was the casual assumption that a man would be the one filling the position. In a lot of ways those unintentional biases are worse than intentional ones.

salahxanadu 13y ago

This is dumb. It's merely pointing out pronouns. Should it be he/she everywhere or it? Gender neutral is often 'he'. Should we now say that 'all men are created equal'? Is it splitting hairs yet? Nobody is telling women not to get into tech things. I don't know whether it is general interest or what, but it should not engender such divisive hate. I think we need more positive role models. Less of this pointless vitriol.

beyondavatars 13y ago
I just think women would read this and believe that this company is looking for a male, not a female. I know I would. It would emphasize a bro type of environment. Your only reference to "he" being gener neutral was from the 1700s... do you have a modern example?