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SpaceX Grasshopper Flies High
- StylifyYourBlog 13y agoIts likely that full-fledged Space Travel with reusable rockets will be possible in the coming years
- InclinedPlane 13y agoThe pace of progress seems to have been faster than even SpaceX anticipated. Within the next year we'll see very significant tests of core components of the system and flight profile (for the first stage at least). The very next Falcon 9 flight (out of Vandenberg) will use the performance overhead provided by the v1.1 upgrade to do a controlled reentry of the 1st stage and then after it has reached terminal velocity it will slow down to a hover out over some remote part of the ocean, then splash down. This is a good and cheap test of a huge part of the flight profile. Meanwhile, the Grasshopper 2 will be more of a full-up Falcon 9 (v1.1) first stage, with 9 engines and will include retractable landing gear. Instead of testing controlled hovering and precision landing it'll go up to supersonic speeds and potentially up to 90km altitude. Essentially testing the return to launch site flight profile in a more realistic setting with more realistic hardware. And then if that proves fruitful they will essentially just stick that hardware into the Falcon 9 stack and do a full up orbital launch with a flyback 1st stage. Possibly within the next few years even. If that works it'll be rather amazing, since much of the cost of a launch is in the manufacture of those 9 engines on that first stage. Even if a reusable stage costs 3x as much as a regular stage and halves the payload capacity if they can get just 6 flights out of each one it'll break even, and if the numbers are more favorable they'll drop the floor out of the orbital launch market and then own it, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year in revenue (a feat they are already on their way to doing with their current lineup of rockets). Perhaps more profoundly it'll hasten the day when it will be conceivable to use kickstarter to fund an interplanetary science mission.
- luke_s 13y agoThanks for the detailed rundown! If you don't mind me asking - where did you find all this out? I've been looking for a good source of SpaceX news. The official website/g+/facebook/etc just posts short updates whenever a mission occurs. I'm looking for news about what is on the horizon and more detailed analysis.
- MartinMcGirk 13y agoI am also interested in this. I know where I can get detailed news and analysis in the Tech industry, but I haven't come across too many good resources for the space industry. If I could find great news sites or podcasts or similar I'd consume them like you wouldn't believe.
- cdash 13y agohttp://www.nasaspaceflight.com/ http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/ That is where you will find the best info for the space industry more than likely. A lot of the info is in the forums though and you will have to kind of hunt it down. They also have a private section of the site that you can pay to gain access that has a lot of insider info.
- MartinMcGirk 13y agoThanks for the link
- chromaton 13y agoNewSpaceWatch focuses specifically on commercial companies trying to innovate in space travel: Armadillo, SpaceX, Bigelow, etc. http://www.newspacewatch.com/ http://www.newspacewatch.com/
- nkoren 13y agoI second that recommendation. This is the successor to a site called "Hobbyspace" which was the best clearinghouse for all commercial space news since the mid-1990s. Although it was just a hobbyist's website, I have reason to believe that its comprehensive reporting and very clear-headed analysis actually bears some of the credit for catalysing the entire Newspace movement (eg., Elon Musk was a following and commenting there since before he founded SpaceX...).
- rplnt 13y agoI believe same thing was done by NASA in the 70s. So not really big step forward in this particular regard. edit: Can't find it at the moment. So far I've found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-X which did what grasshopper and more almost 20 years back. I still believe I've read something earlier though. Will edit when/if I find it.
- EthanHeilman 13y ago[citation needed]
- jerf 13y agoNo. It was a stated goal of the Space Shuttle project, but it failed. Had the Space Shuttle been a commercial venture it would have been abandoned decades ago; other than the fact that it generally worked (which, to be clear, is saying something, that's not guaranteed), it was an awful design.
- rplnt 13y agoCan't edit the parent post anymore, indeed I was wrong, but only about the year. The project I've added however is around 20 years old, so I still don't find Grasshopper revolutionary in this one aspect - reusable VTVL rocket.
- derekp7 13y agoAre you referring to that neat trick they pulled a half dozen times, where they landed a rocket on its tail in an airless environment with 1/6 gravity? That was still pretty impressive on a bunch of other levels.
- rplnt 13y agoNo, I'm referring to on-earth tests, such as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9n9Casp1o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9n9Casp1o However I can't find the exact one I had in mind, or perhaps I was off with the date.
- DigitalJack 13y agoHaven't heard much from Armadillo Aerospace in a while. Are they still active?
- adventured 13y agoYeah they're still active. http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=430 http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?ne...
- smackfu 13y agoThey've always seemed more like a hobby company than the competitors. Their small scale has really seemed to slow them down, like lots of manufacturing and sourcing issues that a bigger company can just throw money at.
- Florin_Andrei 13y agoEven smaller than Armadillo - I really like Copenhagen Suborbitals. They are basically your friendly hackers next door, looking to launch a person into space. http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/ http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/
- omegant 13y agoAre that engines reusable in a short time? or must they go through a mayor refurbishment after each flight?
- deletes 13y agoBasically it is just refuel. The entire rocket is reusable. Musk mentioned in some interview it would take a couple of days.
- hughes 13y agoImpressively, he actually said "single digit hours" between flights for the lower stages. See "turnaround time": http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/rockets/elon-musk-on-spacexs-reusable-rocket-plans-6653023 http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/rockets/elon-m...
- Florin_Andrei 13y ago"Like re-fueling your car" - he uses that analogy a lot. It's probably not exactly like that, but it gives an idea what the real goal is.
- octatone2 13y agoCan't watch this in Germany of course.
- unwind 13y agoOf course, because ... no? Why? It works great in Sweden, for instance so it can't be "side of the Atlantic" that decides. Some DRM/rights issue?
- dredge 13y agoThe video has a music soundtrack ("Ring of Fire") which gets it blocked in Germany. Wikipedia have an article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_in_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_in_G...
- btipling 13y agoLikely because of the soundtrack used. The music added is Ring of Fire by Johnny Cash which limits distribution of the video to certain countries and probably to non-mobile devices. Adding music you don't own the copyright to is probably not a good idea for achieving maximum viewership and distribution. In this case the music is distracting and doesn't add any value, although I like the song.
- lavezza 13y agohttp://youtube.googleapis.com/v/se7_JpbtPwA&rel=1 http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/se7_JpbtPwA&rel=1 Version with different music. Heard it works in other countries.
- shmerl 13y agoVPN? Regional limitations is a ridiculous idiocy in the age of the Internet.
- olex 13y agoProxTube to the rescue.
- MartinMcGirk 13y agoI can't even begin to describe how psyched I get when I see demos like this. The advances that SpaceX and their competitors are making in terms of making access to space cheaper are what will eventually lead to the human species settling on other planets. It also reminds me that when it comes to science, and who knows, maybe other things as well, it's not just public sector vs private sector. SpaceX wouldn't be driving us forward like this if NASA hadn't put in a whole heap of groundwork first, but similarly NASA have other goals to worry about besides keeping costs down. It's that combination of NASA's huge ambition and private enterprise's drive to make efficiency savings that will eventually get us colonizing places that aren't the Earth. I hope it happens in my life time,
- Florin_Andrei 13y agoIt's like the Internet. First, you need a massive government program to get the technology from the pie in the sky stage to something usable - a multi-decade, arduous process that produces no short-term profits, if any. Once that's done, it's time for the private sector to step in.
- qu4z-2 13y agoSomething something Eternal September of Rocketry.
- savrajsingh 13y agoCan someone share some details on how the rocket is stabilized? There are a few different ways to do it -- how does this one work?
- JshWright 13y agoI assume it's some sort of gimbal control/vectoring of the thrust (since I don't see any 'extra' exhaust further up the rocket)
- savrajsingh 13y agoYeah I think that's what it is unless told otherwise. Quite impressive stuff!
- rst 13y agoIt gimbals the engine for pitch and yaw, and uses cold-gas thrusters for roll (around the vertical axis).
- jessriedel 13y agoFor those of you who haven't seen it, here is SpaceX's fantastic animation of their ultimate goal for Falcon 9 (complete with soundtrack by Muse): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFFiubtC3c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFFiubtC3c This will give you an idea of how grasshopper fits into the full flight plan.
- deepblueocean 13y agoI find this confusing. It's awesome, that's for sure. But it seems like lifting all the fuel needed to do a soft landing is inherently a tradeoff for less payload capacity. What is the benefit, then? Is it just so much cheaper to be able to re-use the first two stages?
- cdash 13y agoThere is an estimated 40% reduction in payload to become reusable but since the fuel is only less than 1% of the cost in launching the rocket it is pretty acceptable.
- EthanHeilman 13y agoFuel is very inexpensive (~2% the cost of a rocket launch), rockets are very expensive. If you can trade off fuel for not having to build a new rocket you drop the cost to orbit by orders of magnitude. Additionally you can build more expensive rockets that are more efficient since rocket creation becomes a capital rather than a reoccurring cost.
- petenixey 13y agoBut why not just use a parachute and airbags? They're going to be a vast amount lighter than the fuel you'd need for a rocket landing.
- deletes 13y agoParachute and/or airbags are not necessarily lighter than fuel on a rocket as big as falcon. Parachutes don't scale linearly with the weight of the cargo. Plus they introduce an additional complexity and a point of failure.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- smackfu 13y agoThat aerial shot they have in the video is pretty neat... I wonder if they are using a UAV for that, or just some ballsy helicopter pilot?
- cdash 13y agoHexacopter so yes a UAV.
- baggers 13y ago".from SpaceX’s hexacopter." They have all the nicest toys!
- JshWright 13y agoEven buying something off the shelf, that's not an absurdly expensive 'toy' (<$2k, certainly... so, not 'cheap' but certainly well within the 'hobby' range for a lot of folks). The camera is a few hundred more, but it's amazing how cheap HD-capable cameras have gotten recently. If you build it yourself, you could put together a video platform like that for under $1k (including the gyro stabilized camera gimbal).
- BaconJuice 13y agoHey JshWright, I recently got very interested in creating one of these and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this. Can you please give me advice on where a newbie can start with this? I would like to learn how to build one on my own from scratch. Thank you.
- olex 13y agoI recommend checking out forums like RCGroups, there's loads of information there. There are many ways to start into the hobby. You can get yourself a radio and a simulator and learn to fly on the computer first. You could go for an off-the-shelf solution like the DJI Phantom that will fly very well without much tuning or fiddling (but it'll cost the part). Or you can go the DIY way - a good keyword is "MultiWii", it's a fairly cheap but rather labor-intensive way of getting your first copter to the skies.
- stigi 13y ago"Unfortunately, this video is not available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not granted the respective music rights." Here's a short link to bypass: http://www.ssyoutube.com/watch?v=sWFFiubtC3c http://www.ssyoutube.com/watch?v=sWFFiubtC3c
- InclinedPlane 13y agoSpaceX uploaded a version without music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUvbh-Z8Abk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUvbh-Z8Abk
- ubersync 13y agoWould have loved to see what happened to the dummy cowboy. The final fews frames are not very clear due to the smoke and dust.
- danielweber 13y agoDid they have another cowboy? It makes me think it's the same test from a few months ago.
- BaconJuice 13y agoThe test few months ago was a 40 feet climb I think
- JshWright 13y agoMost of the Grasshopper tests have had a cowboy on the landing gear frame.
- chad_oliver 13y agoYeah, you can see him in the first few frames.
- rays 13y agoPoor bird gets killed in the video as it tries to fly away as the rocket takes off
- deletes 13y agoThe bird is way closer to the camera than the rocket. Check the video again when the bird starts to land it is approximately the size of half the width of the rocket. That would make the bird be positioned halfway between the camera and the rocket and well clear of the blast.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- droz 13y agoAnyone have experience working at, or with, SpaceX that can shed some light on what it's like to work there?
- slackpad 13y agoI've been on the Flight Software team at SpaceX for a little over three years. It feels a lot like a startup. The team is still relatively small and people are pretty passionate about what they are working on. The project variety is wide as well. Personally, I've gotten to work on low-level drivers and OS stuff, application code that runs on the vehicles and ground systems, Dragon's fault-tolerant platform, internal web-based tools, and operations in Mission Control during the Dragon missions. Can't really give details about any of this stuff but I do love working here. There was an AMA with several of the software teams a little while back: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1853ap/we_are_spacex_software_engineers_we_launch/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1853ap/we_are_spacex_s... There are several openings right now for software engineers, including people with web experience (people usually don't think we're looking for those skills): https://jobs.github.com/positions/bd54ba2a-a930-11e2-9c0e-5c6dc1b4f99c https://jobs.github.com/positions/bd54ba2a-a930-11e2-9c0e-5c...
- elteto 13y agoHey! Can you spare some career advice for an aspiring aero engineer that wants to work on the software side of the rocket? If you could share what you would consider is a good path to follow to get to where you are right now, I would really appreciate it. I am a programmer at heart but even that could not pull me away from my love of space ;) so I decided to study aerospace engineering first.
- lutorm 13y agoSpaceX has an intership program, that might be a good thing to look into.
- Game_Ender 13y agoMy recommendation would be to consider adding CS as minor or double major. Then try and get some internship and/or on campus lab experience doing software or robotics work (robotics software is pretty close to flight software). Another great way to get experience is to get involved with extra-curricular group doing some kind of robotic or aerospace challenge. Think DARPA grand challenge, NASA Sample Return Robot challenge, or one of AUVSI's robotics competitions.
- robomartin 13y agoA flying Segway! How cool is that?
- _mulder_ 13y agoSo what's the big water tower for in the background?
- jlgreco 13y agoProbably water. ;) Maybe for fire-fighting? Seems a little close for that though, if something went wrong it could be in the middle of it. I can't think of anything else though. Edit: Maybe it feeds some sort of un-manned fire suppression system? That would be pretty smart.
- luke_s 13y agoProbably stores water for their deluge system for rocket engine testing. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_engine_test_facility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_engine_test_facility "The rocket exhaust is directed into a flame bucket or trench. The flame trench is designed to redirect the hot exhaust to a safe direction and is protected by a water deluge system that both cools the exhaust and also reduces the sound pressure level (loudness). The sound pressure level of large rocket engines has been measured at greater than 200 decibels — one of the loudest man-made sounds on earth."
- ParahSailin 13y agoThe saddest part is that I would have been willing to capitalize SpaceX voluntarily, as an investor. Instead, Elon Musk steals from me through NASA.
- lutusp 13y agoOn the bright side, SpaceX is so economical compared to NASA's past methods, that if it succeeds, we will all benefit. So what might be characterized as theft at one point in time, might eventually be seen as a great investment. Only time will tell.
- ParahSailin 13y agoFor all Elon Musk's libertarian rhetoric, he sure disregards it whenever expedient.
- numbsafari 13y agoMost libertarians do. It's called making money and all's fair in love and business.
- Florin_Andrei 13y agoI actually think he's pretty moderate. His views are not mainstream, but I would expect someone like him to think in those terms. OTOH, his pal Peter Thiel is pretty extreme. That's someone I'm not comfortable with.
- russell 13y agoI watched the videos (no sound - at work) and it seems like from the discussion that they are thinking of returning to the launch site. I looked at the Saturn V data and the first stage came down 350 miles down range and the second stage 2300 or so miles down range. Are the SpaceX launches going to have little downrange component for the first stage?
- schiffern 13y agoYep, Elon Musk has publicly mentioned that it will light up the engine to boost back to the launch site. >So, I think, there's a number of improvements across the board, in structures, avionics, engines and then, as I said, this version [the Falcon 9 1.1] is really designed to be able to have the first stage come back - boost back – to launch site, deploy landing gear and actually land propulsively.[1] With a flyback stage the optimal separation altitude and velocity drops, and the second stage gets even larger to compensate. But yes, the engine will cancel the downrange component of velocity and reverse it. Since the stage is empty the fuel requirements are actually quite modest. [1] http://shitelonsays.com/transcript/crs-2-post-landing-teleconference-2013-03-27 http://shitelonsays.com/transcript/crs-2-post-landing-teleco...
- lutorm 13y agoThis is probably a good place to point out: The SpaceX flight software team is looking for skilled software engineers! There are openings from anything from front-end RoR stuff to flight software and simulations infrastructure. If you want to help making stuff like this video run, check out some of these: https://jobs.github.com/positions/bd54ba2a-a930-11e2-9c0e-5c6dc1b4f99c https://jobs.github.com/positions/bd54ba2a-a930-11e2-9c0e-5c... http://www.spacex.com/careers.php?jvi=oarEWfwV,Job http://www.spacex.com/careers.php?jvi=oarEWfwV,Job http://www.spacex.com/careers.php?jvi=odfMWfwU,Job http://www.spacex.com/careers.php?jvi=odfMWfwU,Job
- Game_Ender 13y agoWhat are the upsides to living in LA?
- lutorm 13y agoDepends on where you live now, I guess. Let's just say living in LA is not the reason I work here... though it isn't nearly as bad as I had feared.