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I can see how buying fiber networks like this helps their implementation strategy, but Provo where? I've literally never heard of this town. I'm wondering if th

I can see how buying fiber networks like this helps their implementation strategy, but Provo where? I've literally never heard of this town. I'm wondering if these Google Fiber experiments wouldn't be more impactful if they weren't in big cities. KC and Austin are good choices with solid tech centers to see innovation from high network speeds, but Provo, Utah? Really?

JPKab 14y ago
Utah has a pretty solid economy, and lots of outdoors enthuiasts love it. I don't know much about Provo, but the drawback to me about Utah is that you have to live in a state that is strongly controlled by the LDS, which is great if you are a mainstream Mormon. Not so much if you aren't. My good friend recently left the Salt Lake City area after several years. When his neighbors found out he wasn't Mormon (LDS to be exact), they pretty much ceased all meaningful social interaction with his family. Oh yeah, the beer is watered down too unless you buy it at the right place.
- rdl 14y ago
  I'm not LDS, and generally dislike religion, but I wonder how bad an LDS-controlled area really would be. I assume it means good disaster/etc. preparation, a relatively strong social safety net for participants (and thus less abject poverty, random crazy people, etc.) The non-LDS or ex-LDS people I know who live in Utah (from Defcon or whatever) seem pretty cohesive as well. Maybe because it's a smaller tech scene than other cities, or because of LDS mainstream culture, or whatever. I guess my question is how hard is it to be involved in business or other parts of civic life if not LDS but also not openly hostile (I mean, as religions go, I don't personally find it any worse than the others, and I'm fine with respecting participants, if not the religion itself, by not attacking it, and accommodating their beliefs). Could you be a non-LDS company in Provo and still reasonably hire a mix of LDS and non-LDS employees?
  - mrchucklepants 14y ago
    To answer your last question, yes. I work in Provo, and many of us here are LDS and many aren't. Most of us don't care who is and who isn't. Everyone gets along great. No one is left out and religious standing has zero affect on job status. There may be exceptions in other companies, but this has been my experience.
  - Osiris 14y ago
    As a member of the Church that attended BYU (in Provo), I'm always a bit surprised to hear people outside the church express these kinds of questions. In Utah due to the large percentage of the population belonging to the Church, there is a somewhat unique culture (it's a Utah Mormon culture, not a Mormon culture in general, if than makes sense). Us Mormons believe in respect and love towards all, regardless of belief system. We're taught to be accepting of all people and to not judge others (since we're all imperfect). The parent post suggests an anecdotal evidence that this is not the case, but I would discourage you from associating that behavior with the religion as opposed to those individual people. To answer your question, I don't see any reason that religion should affect the way a company operates or hires (other than, hopefully, trying to be more moral and honest in business dealings).
    - rdl 14y ago
      I guess I was comparing it to other countries I've worked in with one dominant religion (and stories about Israel from other people, where if you're not Israeli or at least Jewish you're fairly excluded...). All of the Mormons I've met (admittedly, outside Utah) have been positive outliers as individual people, but I assume when you have a larger sample set there is the normal range of human variation.
    - ajtaylor 14y ago
      I'm also a member of the Church who went to BYU. I loved Utah the state (and wish I had had the time and money to explore it more), but the Utah Mormon culture there really rubbed me the wrong way. It ended up being a major factor in our heading back to the East Coast. That said, I'm still an active member so it was just Utah that was my problem.
  - joshdance 14y ago
    I work at a tech startup in Salt Lake. I don't really know who is Mormon and who isn't. I can guess by drink choices when we eat out, but we all get along just great. :)
  - cookiecaper 14y ago
    I'm very Mormon and I've ended up hiring almost exclusively non-LDS employees, and more of my friends are non-Mormon than otherwise. Most people work together just fine. Some extremist ex-Mormons have problems, and a handful of really, really stupid Mormons may hypothetically have certain problems (though in professional practice I've never encountered these), but pretty much everyone gets along just fine.
  - lotharbot 14y ago
    > "I wonder how bad an LDS-controlled area really would be" It's got some outright bad stuff, some good, and some that's just oddly different. For example, alcohol sales in Utah are extremely restricted because of an LDS prohibition on alcohol consumption [0]. Many Utah communities recently passed "free speech zone" ordinances, which seemed only to be enforced against people who were critical of the LDS church. Some friends of mine joined with the ACLU to get at least one of the ordinances repealed [1]. The social safety nets in Utah are strong, but in some circumstances there's also a lot of religious pressure tied to them. In other circumstances they're really great. Being a stay-at-home dad in a heavily LDS community is a strange experience. It's a society that expects men to work and women to take care of children; I got a lot of funny looks when I'd go places with my son. Many companies in Utah hire both LDS and non-LDS employees. I've heard quite a few people describe significant workplace tension. Others had no problems at all. Net result: it's a really mixed bag. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom#Prohibitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom#Prohibitions [1] http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/brigham-city-free-speech-zone-ordinance-lawsuit-settled-after-city-repeals-ordinance http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/brigham-city-free-speech-zon...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
MartinCron 14y ago
It's a college town, probably more creatively vibrant than you would think at first glance, anti-Mormon prejudices aside.
- mrchucklepants 14y ago
  I would like to think that HN is free of any anti-Mormon prejudices.
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    So would I. I grew up in Mormon country and even though I don't share their beliefs I always find the mainstream undercurrent of disdain very upsetting.
  - cookiecaper 14y ago
    No significant online tech community is free of anti-religion prejudice, let alone anti-Mormon prejudice. Mormonism in particular attracts ire because it is very inflexible on behaviors that most religions have compromised on recently, and its unusual origins.
phaedryx 14y ago
Ranked #1 by Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/06/27/the-best-places-for-business/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/06/27/the-b...
bjt 14y ago
Tech companies in Provo: http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies Maybe the double-take says more about the our prejudices than about the strength of the tech industry in Utah county. The BYU/Mormon association makes it not a top destination for techno-hipsters, but that's not the same thing as being a tech backwater. The fact that they built iProvo in the first place is a pretty good sign. (I lived in Utah until about 10 years ago.)
EvanAnderson 14y ago
Provo, UT was home to the former headquarters of Novell. There are still a number of tech companies in the area as a result of the concentration of talent there.
rdl 14y ago
Provo, Madison, Boulder seem like pretty ideal candidates for this kind of thing -- techie, fairly small (well, Boulder is borderline), relatively sane local government, good potential takeup. KC actually seems like the outlier, due to size and a larger range of incomes/education. Bellevue, WA might work, too, or college towns like Blacksburg, Pasadena, Cambridge, Urbana-Champaign, and near some of the National Labs. (Is Huntsville still an outlier for the state?) Orlando would be interesting, or even the Disney-specific district, due to tourism, along with obviously Las Vegas. Selfishly I'd love it if they did Hawaii.
- simmons 14y ago
  Boulder is currently in the process of trying to kick out Xcel Energy and operate their own power infrastructure. I've been wondering if this is a step towards making a bid for Google Fiber. (Since having a city-owned utility seemed to be an important factor in the Kansas City, Kansas selection, for streamlined access to poles.)
- MartinCron 14y ago
  Bellevue, WA would be... interesting, but would be a far easier incremental step than Seattle.
  - RandallBrown 14y ago
    Seattle already has a dark fiber network. All Google would have to do is light it up. Given Google's relatively large presence in the area (second only to Mountain View I believe).
agildehaus 14y ago
It somewhat feels like there's some political purpose behind the choices. Kansas, Utah, Texas - all big GOP strongholds. Hmm.

JPKab 14y ago

Utah has a pretty solid economy, and lots of outdoors enthuiasts love it. I don't know much about Provo, but the drawback to me about Utah is that you have to live in a state that is strongly controlled by the LDS, which is great if you are a mainstream Mormon. Not so much if you aren't. My good friend recently left the Salt Lake City area after several years. When his neighbors found out he wasn't Mormon (LDS to be exact), they pretty much ceased all meaningful social interaction with his family. Oh yeah, the beer is watered down too unless you buy it at the right place.

rdl 14y ago
I'm not LDS, and generally dislike religion, but I wonder how bad an LDS-controlled area really would be. I assume it means good disaster/etc. preparation, a relatively strong social safety net for participants (and thus less abject poverty, random crazy people, etc.) The non-LDS or ex-LDS people I know who live in Utah (from Defcon or whatever) seem pretty cohesive as well. Maybe because it's a smaller tech scene than other cities, or because of LDS mainstream culture, or whatever. I guess my question is how hard is it to be involved in business or other parts of civic life if not LDS but also not openly hostile (I mean, as religions go, I don't personally find it any worse than the others, and I'm fine with respecting participants, if not the religion itself, by not attacking it, and accommodating their beliefs). Could you be a non-LDS company in Provo and still reasonably hire a mix of LDS and non-LDS employees?
- mrchucklepants 14y ago
  To answer your last question, yes. I work in Provo, and many of us here are LDS and many aren't. Most of us don't care who is and who isn't. Everyone gets along great. No one is left out and religious standing has zero affect on job status. There may be exceptions in other companies, but this has been my experience.
- Osiris 14y ago
  As a member of the Church that attended BYU (in Provo), I'm always a bit surprised to hear people outside the church express these kinds of questions. In Utah due to the large percentage of the population belonging to the Church, there is a somewhat unique culture (it's a Utah Mormon culture, not a Mormon culture in general, if than makes sense). Us Mormons believe in respect and love towards all, regardless of belief system. We're taught to be accepting of all people and to not judge others (since we're all imperfect). The parent post suggests an anecdotal evidence that this is not the case, but I would discourage you from associating that behavior with the religion as opposed to those individual people. To answer your question, I don't see any reason that religion should affect the way a company operates or hires (other than, hopefully, trying to be more moral and honest in business dealings).
  - rdl 14y ago
    I guess I was comparing it to other countries I've worked in with one dominant religion (and stories about Israel from other people, where if you're not Israeli or at least Jewish you're fairly excluded...). All of the Mormons I've met (admittedly, outside Utah) have been positive outliers as individual people, but I assume when you have a larger sample set there is the normal range of human variation.
  - ajtaylor 14y ago
    I'm also a member of the Church who went to BYU. I loved Utah the state (and wish I had had the time and money to explore it more), but the Utah Mormon culture there really rubbed me the wrong way. It ended up being a major factor in our heading back to the East Coast. That said, I'm still an active member so it was just Utah that was my problem.
- joshdance 14y ago
  I work at a tech startup in Salt Lake. I don't really know who is Mormon and who isn't. I can guess by drink choices when we eat out, but we all get along just great. :)
- cookiecaper 14y ago
  I'm very Mormon and I've ended up hiring almost exclusively non-LDS employees, and more of my friends are non-Mormon than otherwise. Most people work together just fine. Some extremist ex-Mormons have problems, and a handful of really, really stupid Mormons may hypothetically have certain problems (though in professional practice I've never encountered these), but pretty much everyone gets along just fine.
- lotharbot 14y ago
  > "I wonder how bad an LDS-controlled area really would be" It's got some outright bad stuff, some good, and some that's just oddly different. For example, alcohol sales in Utah are extremely restricted because of an LDS prohibition on alcohol consumption [0]. Many Utah communities recently passed "free speech zone" ordinances, which seemed only to be enforced against people who were critical of the LDS church. Some friends of mine joined with the ACLU to get at least one of the ordinances repealed [1]. The social safety nets in Utah are strong, but in some circumstances there's also a lot of religious pressure tied to them. In other circumstances they're really great. Being a stay-at-home dad in a heavily LDS community is a strange experience. It's a society that expects men to work and women to take care of children; I got a lot of funny looks when I'd go places with my son. Many companies in Utah hire both LDS and non-LDS employees. I've heard quite a few people describe significant workplace tension. Others had no problems at all. Net result: it's a really mixed bag. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom#Prohibitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom#Prohibitions [1] http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/brigham-city-free-speech-zone-ordinance-lawsuit-settled-after-city-repeals-ordinance http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/brigham-city-free-speech-zon...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

MartinCron 14y ago

It's a college town, probably more creatively vibrant than you would think at first glance, anti-Mormon prejudices aside.

mrchucklepants 14y ago
I would like to think that HN is free of any anti-Mormon prejudices.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  So would I. I grew up in Mormon country and even though I don't share their beliefs I always find the mainstream undercurrent of disdain very upsetting.
- cookiecaper 14y ago
  No significant online tech community is free of anti-religion prejudice, let alone anti-Mormon prejudice. Mormonism in particular attracts ire because it is very inflexible on behaviors that most religions have compromised on recently, and its unusual origins.

phaedryx 14y ago

Ranked #1 by Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/06/27/the-best-places-for-business/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/06/27/the-b...

bjt 14y ago

Tech companies in Provo: http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies Maybe the double-take says more about the our prejudices than about the strength of the tech industry in Utah county. The BYU/Mormon association makes it not a top destination for techno-hipsters, but that's not the same thing as being a tech backwater. The fact that they built iProvo in the first place is a pretty good sign. (I lived in Utah until about 10 years ago.)

EvanAnderson 14y ago

Provo, UT was home to the former headquarters of Novell. There are still a number of tech companies in the area as a result of the concentration of talent there.

rdl 14y ago

Provo, Madison, Boulder seem like pretty ideal candidates for this kind of thing -- techie, fairly small (well, Boulder is borderline), relatively sane local government, good potential takeup. KC actually seems like the outlier, due to size and a larger range of incomes/education. Bellevue, WA might work, too, or college towns like Blacksburg, Pasadena, Cambridge, Urbana-Champaign, and near some of the National Labs. (Is Huntsville still an outlier for the state?) Orlando would be interesting, or even the Disney-specific district, due to tourism, along with obviously Las Vegas. Selfishly I'd love it if they did Hawaii.

simmons 14y ago
Boulder is currently in the process of trying to kick out Xcel Energy and operate their own power infrastructure. I've been wondering if this is a step towards making a bid for Google Fiber. (Since having a city-owned utility seemed to be an important factor in the Kansas City, Kansas selection, for streamlined access to poles.)
MartinCron 14y ago
Bellevue, WA would be... interesting, but would be a far easier incremental step than Seattle.
- RandallBrown 14y ago
  Seattle already has a dark fiber network. All Google would have to do is light it up. Given Google's relatively large presence in the area (second only to Mountain View I believe).

agildehaus 14y ago

It somewhat feels like there's some political purpose behind the choices. Kansas, Utah, Texas - all big GOP strongholds. Hmm.