3 ms·

It's a highly competitive industry with very thin (read often negative) margins, which does not attract a lot of "normal" competitors. It's also highly regulate

It's a highly competitive industry with very thin (read often negative) margins, which does not attract a lot of "normal" competitors. It's also highly regulated and extremely capital intensive, making it further unattractive to compete with the incumbents. On top of that, you have to get space at airports which, if it's full, you just can't do. My understanding is that most airports in major US centers are "full" during peak times (morning and evening rush hours). Some major international ones (LAX, JFK) are probably full most of the time. All in all, it's a tough industry. That said, you get a few new entrants every decade. Frontier ('94), Jetblue ('2001?), Virgin America (2007). I'm sure one of them has tried being nicer to customers, but next time those customers went to buy a ticket they bought one on AA cause it was $10 cheaper or left 30 min later.

scarmig 14y ago
Virgin has, but that has cost it horribly. Someone did a focus group awhile back about all the nice things an airline could do. And everyone was really excited about all the niceties that were on offer. But then they asked everyone to raise their hands and to pull them down once they were no longer willing to pay that much. At around $30 extra, over half the people had put down their hands. At $50, all but one. For whatever reason, people de facto hate paying trivial amounts extra even in exchange for significant improvements. That's why we end up with really shitty flight experiences.
- scholia 14y ago
  I just booked a couple of flights from Europe to Asia, and it took a while to find the sort of low prices I've paid in previous years. It turned out that half the ticket price was for airport fees and taxes, so the airline was charging more and getting less.
  - shoyer 14y ago
    Those "fuel surcharges" that add up to hundreds of dollars are imposed and collected by the airlines themselves. It's just another way for them to price their tickets.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      Ya, make no mistake: most of those fees are just stealth price increases. I wish they would just come out with the real price directly.
  - ohazi 14y ago
    Same here. Just bought tickets for SF -> NY -> London and back, and no matter how you slice it, you're paying a $500 "crossing the Atlantic" fee. SF -> NY hovers around $300-$350, but good luck finding a flight from NY -> UK for less than $1000, even though the flight is only 30% longer.
    - rdouble 14y ago
      I've been planning a trip to Europe and flights to Heathrow and Barcelona from Tucson are < $1000 until Mid may. However, they all go through Atlanta or Houston instead of NY. Maybe it's a NY->UK premium? Strangely, the same flights direct from Houston or ATL to London are more than the ones from Tucson with layovers.
    - JOnAgain 13y ago
      This is actually known collusion by the airlines that's tolerated on both sides of the Atlantic because the airlines basically make no money anyway.
ryanmarsh 14y ago
Having been in the bowels of the beast I'm suspect of the quotes that the margins are thin. American and other traditional carriers (unlike Southwest) waste loads of cash maintaining a way of doing things that hails from the 1960's. I used to walk around imagining all the waste I would slash if I were CEO. It is truly appalling once you've seen it from the inside. EDIT: Corrected spelling

scarmig 14y ago

Virgin has, but that has cost it horribly. Someone did a focus group awhile back about all the nice things an airline could do. And everyone was really excited about all the niceties that were on offer. But then they asked everyone to raise their hands and to pull them down once they were no longer willing to pay that much. At around $30 extra, over half the people had put down their hands. At $50, all but one. For whatever reason, people de facto hate paying trivial amounts extra even in exchange for significant improvements. That's why we end up with really shitty flight experiences.

scholia 14y ago
I just booked a couple of flights from Europe to Asia, and it took a while to find the sort of low prices I've paid in previous years. It turned out that half the ticket price was for airport fees and taxes, so the airline was charging more and getting less.
- shoyer 14y ago
  Those "fuel surcharges" that add up to hundreds of dollars are imposed and collected by the airlines themselves. It's just another way for them to price their tickets.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Ya, make no mistake: most of those fees are just stealth price increases. I wish they would just come out with the real price directly.
- ohazi 14y ago
  Same here. Just bought tickets for SF -> NY -> London and back, and no matter how you slice it, you're paying a $500 "crossing the Atlantic" fee. SF -> NY hovers around $300-$350, but good luck finding a flight from NY -> UK for less than $1000, even though the flight is only 30% longer.
  - rdouble 14y ago
    I've been planning a trip to Europe and flights to Heathrow and Barcelona from Tucson are < $1000 until Mid may. However, they all go through Atlanta or Houston instead of NY. Maybe it's a NY->UK premium? Strangely, the same flights direct from Houston or ATL to London are more than the ones from Tucson with layovers.
  - JOnAgain 13y ago
    This is actually known collusion by the airlines that's tolerated on both sides of the Atlantic because the airlines basically make no money anyway.

ryanmarsh 14y ago

Having been in the bowels of the beast I'm suspect of the quotes that the margins are thin. American and other traditional carriers (unlike Southwest) waste loads of cash maintaining a way of doing things that hails from the 1960's. I used to walk around imagining all the waste I would slash if I were CEO. It is truly appalling once you've seen it from the inside. EDIT: Corrected spelling