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As I was reading this, I kept thinking, Is this a satire of the American government? But no, it was just some jingoistic piece singling out one foreign country.

As I was reading this, I kept thinking, Is this a satire of the American government? But no, it was just some jingoistic piece singling out one foreign country. I accept that the Chinese government is terrible. It's the incredulous "it would never happen in The Free World™" tone of the article that pisses me off. Do people believe the government doesn't shut down or freeze individual sites at will? Been on 4chan today? Do people really believe the Chinese government has jailed more people for expression on the Internet than the United States government? Do people believe the U.S. government isn't monitoring or manipulating the Internet? Back doors? Warrantless surveillance? Lurking? Subpoenas for user information without so much as a judge's signature? FISA? NDAA? CISPA? Does the FBI not track people or pay personal visits to people who say the wrong thing on Facebook or YouTube or any other social site? I know we can express more here in the United States than people can in China, but I really think the feds are using the entire Internet as one giant honeypot right now, and the lid's just waiting to come down. We know the FBI collects information on non-criminal activities both in the real world and on the Internet in the event that those activities become illegal in the future. (Gore sites, for example, are being watched. It's not illegal to post gore. But when it becomes illegal, the FBI will have a list of all those people who posted on the clear Web.) Do you know how easy it would be for the government to shut down the entire Internet in America? You have a few wireless operators, all heavily beholden to the federal government. You have a few cable and telco monopolies. Their executives and board members are all interchangeable, all part of the same sphere of influence — essentially a telecommunications cadre. This isn't accidental. I say 10 friendly phone calls from the federal government could get 90 percent of the Internet shut down in this country inside of an hour. Anyway, they haven't done it here yet. But that's about the only thing that distinguishes us from them.

jacoblyles 13y ago
Ugh, a false equivalence attack to defend the policy of censors. Just because the American government does bad things doesn't let others off the hook. And most of your accusations are evidence-free assertions and conspiracy theories.
adventured 13y ago
"I say 10 friendly phone calls from the federal government could get 90 percent of the Internet shut down in this country inside of an hour." While we're talking about crazy things that would never happen... the US could have relentlessly nuked the Soviets after Japan immediately post WW2 (by rushing the further development of lots of more nukes) and ruled the planet for a few hundred years with an iron fist by threatening to obliterate any nation that even thought about acquiring nukes or related tech. That didn't happen either, because it'd have been insane. The US Govt. couldn't shut down 90% of the Internet in the US because it can't afford to do so, both due to the extraordinary outrage and financial costs involved. Aka it'd be insane to do it, and would be like committing political suicide for the politicians that desperately cling to power. Lots of stupid things are possible, so what. The US Govt. could have shut down the Internet in 1995 too. And they could go on a murderous rampage with mini nukes targeting each metro in the nation. That's about as likely as the Feds shutting down the golden goose.
- Volpe 13y ago
  In 2000 would you have said "The US could setup a prison just outside its borders so it could ignore the bill of rights, but it wouldn't - because that would be insane!?" The US has been doing some pretty insane things... Yes they haven't Nuked half the planet, but that pretty far down the spectrum of 'insane'... Shutting down, or heavily censoring the internet is not... You do recall what happened to wikileaks in the US, right? Some phone calls, and Amazon shuts their servers down....
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  "the US could have relentlessly nuked the Soviets after Japan immediately post WW2" They didn't have enough nukes neither they had delivery methods. Japan is a tiny island, but most of Soviet industry were located on the Volga rived and beyond on the Ural mountains. That's very far from sea and very far from any territory USA reliably controls. I don't think they had strategic bombers that could reliably take dozens of targets off. And contemporary bombs were small-powered devices that wouldn't destroy everything. They will only make Soviets very angry and the rest of the world hating and fearing them. Add to this that Europe would hardly be friendly if they did that, seeing themself as a next target. Will hardly help them deliver nukes.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
contingencies 13y ago
Mostly fair points... you don't deserve to get downvoted so heavily. As one of the probably few people here who has spent significant time living in China (first trip: 2001, last trip: less than a month ago, total time: 7-8 years), and has also lived in various parts of the west (Australia, UK, US), I agree with you that the west isn't much better. For more discussion on why this absolutely is the case, see (1) the Cypherpunks interviews at http://assange.rt.com/ http://assange.rt.com/ (2) the longer-form Cypherpunks book at http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/cypherpunks/ http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/cypherpunks/ (3) Bruce Schneier's recent essay at http://www.schneier.com/essay-420.html http://www.schneier.com/essay-420.html (which actually evidences some of the same) (4) Applebaum's 29C3 keynote at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5OQz0Ko8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5OQz0Ko8c (5) Echelon as best we knew it through the eyes of multiple intelligence agencies 12 years ago: http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm (6) ... if you get this far, you will find more sources on your own.
gbog 13y ago
About freedom of speech, I read in Antifragile that a university dean has been fired because he said a possible explanation for gender inequality in high and low grounds ( academia and prisons) could be that women have a more stable psyché.

jacoblyles 13y ago

Ugh, a false equivalence attack to defend the policy of censors. Just because the American government does bad things doesn't let others off the hook. And most of your accusations are evidence-free assertions and conspiracy theories.

adventured 13y ago

"I say 10 friendly phone calls from the federal government could get 90 percent of the Internet shut down in this country inside of an hour." While we're talking about crazy things that would never happen... the US could have relentlessly nuked the Soviets after Japan immediately post WW2 (by rushing the further development of lots of more nukes) and ruled the planet for a few hundred years with an iron fist by threatening to obliterate any nation that even thought about acquiring nukes or related tech. That didn't happen either, because it'd have been insane. The US Govt. couldn't shut down 90% of the Internet in the US because it can't afford to do so, both due to the extraordinary outrage and financial costs involved. Aka it'd be insane to do it, and would be like committing political suicide for the politicians that desperately cling to power. Lots of stupid things are possible, so what. The US Govt. could have shut down the Internet in 1995 too. And they could go on a murderous rampage with mini nukes targeting each metro in the nation. That's about as likely as the Feds shutting down the golden goose.

Volpe 13y ago
In 2000 would you have said "The US could setup a prison just outside its borders so it could ignore the bill of rights, but it wouldn't - because that would be insane!?" The US has been doing some pretty insane things... Yes they haven't Nuked half the planet, but that pretty far down the spectrum of 'insane'... Shutting down, or heavily censoring the internet is not... You do recall what happened to wikileaks in the US, right? Some phone calls, and Amazon shuts their servers down....
guard-of-terra 13y ago
"the US could have relentlessly nuked the Soviets after Japan immediately post WW2" They didn't have enough nukes neither they had delivery methods. Japan is a tiny island, but most of Soviet industry were located on the Volga rived and beyond on the Ural mountains. That's very far from sea and very far from any territory USA reliably controls. I don't think they had strategic bombers that could reliably take dozens of targets off. And contemporary bombs were small-powered devices that wouldn't destroy everything. They will only make Soviets very angry and the rest of the world hating and fearing them. Add to this that Europe would hardly be friendly if they did that, seeing themself as a next target. Will hardly help them deliver nukes.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

contingencies 13y ago

Mostly fair points... you don't deserve to get downvoted so heavily. As one of the probably few people here who has spent significant time living in China (first trip: 2001, last trip: less than a month ago, total time: 7-8 years), and has also lived in various parts of the west (Australia, UK, US), I agree with you that the west isn't much better. For more discussion on why this absolutely is the case, see (1) the Cypherpunks interviews at http://assange.rt.com/ http://assange.rt.com/ (2) the longer-form Cypherpunks book at http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/cypherpunks/ http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/cypherpunks/ (3) Bruce Schneier's recent essay at http://www.schneier.com/essay-420.html http://www.schneier.com/essay-420.html (which actually evidences some of the same) (4) Applebaum's 29C3 keynote at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5OQz0Ko8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5OQz0Ko8c (5) Echelon as best we knew it through the eyes of multiple intelligence agencies 12 years ago: http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm (6) ... if you get this far, you will find more sources on your own.

gbog 13y ago

About freedom of speech, I read in Antifragile that a university dean has been fired because he said a possible explanation for gender inequality in high and low grounds ( academia and prisons) could be that women have a more stable psyché.