8 ms·

I have seen this kind of behavior going on in India for so many years. There are countless cases of where rich people would push poor people on bikes off the ro

by knodi 14y ago

I have seen this kind of behavior going on in India for so many years. There are countless cases of where rich people would push poor people on bikes off the road and into ditches with their cars. I'm convinced that this stems from the religious caste system which has now become the monetary class system in these new times. I always wondered why don't the poor just revolt, they're treated so badly, almost like slaves and everyday they lose more and more. They have their kids run over and police will do nothing about it because the rich will pay them off to make the case go away. It truly is sad. The worst part is poor people will do the same to other poor people given the opportunity. We (Indians) have learned nothing from Gandhi on how to treat our fellow men.

16s 14y ago
There are countless cases of where rich people would push poor people on bikes off the road and into ditches with their cars. That would be a serious crime in the USA. If you did that, and you got caught, you would be in very serious trouble. And, it would not matter how rich you were. That's assault, perhaps with intent to harm or kill and civilized society does not tolerate it.
- nbouscal 14y ago
  > it would not matter how rich you were. Which USA do you live in?
  - cellis 14y ago
    A valid question. I don't think someone would be able to get away with that in my USA (SF bay area) irrespective of wealth. But perhaps in a more provincial part, like, say Alabama...
  - 16s 14y ago
    Every part of America I have ever been in would not tolerate that. It's illegal.
    - wilfra 14y ago
      It may not be as bad as some countries where you can just pay the cops but the rich and well connected in America definitely play by a different set of rules, especially with regard to punishment. Example: a rich old woman in my hometown was drunk in the morning and ran over a guy riding a bicycle and killed him. She ended up getting probation. Not a day in jail. Put a poor minority behind the wheel of that car and they are going to prison for a long time.
      - rayiner 14y ago
        That's race/age not wealth. If it had been a young, rich, black guy in an Escalade what do you think a jury would have done?
        wilfra 14y ago
        Depends who his lawyer was and how many people he and his lawyer know in the local criminal justice system. Connections are just as important as wealth - sometimes moreso. See George Zimmerman (father is a judge) who would have walked were it not for the Worldwide media shining a spotlight on the case.
      - corporalagumbo 14y ago
        That's an entirely different problem set from what seems to be happening in India. What you're describing in the US is a system where perceptions and punishment of superficially similar behaviour vary based on your position with society, namely based on whether you activate the sympathies or antipathies of the mainstream establishment. I.E. that old lady is much less likely to be perceived as aggressive and anti-social in court than a young minority member. The system is not completely fair, and you can argue about the extent to which the system is unfair, but the system at least holds fairness as an ideal, and the mainstream establishment identifies with this ideal. Cops and judges may not perceive it as unfair if a similar crime when committed by an old rich lady is more likely to be viewed as a regrettable mistake (especially if she appears distraught and repentant in court) than when committed by a minority member. In India it seems like fairness is not even part of the equation. It sounds like a seriously dog-eat-dog environment, where there are few if any checks on raw, ruthless antisocial behaviour. Society lacks even the value system which would encourage the privileged to feel guilt and regret over their treatment of those beneath them. Basically it is the difference between a society where people are shocked and angered by unfairness and a society where people are desensitised or even perversely excited by unfairness.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarmig 14y ago
    The USA has mostly evolved (I use that word advisedly) beyond that. There's certainly all kinds of horrific things about the USA's class system. But the USA has to a large extent depersonalized them: if you as an individual commit physical violence against another individual, you go through our legal system and you get punished. Where the USA's class system goes wrong is in vaguer systemic issues. Everyone equally has the chance to get an expensive lawyer to argue you down to a lesser sentence, but few can afford the best. Everyone equally has the chance to purchase a house that's not in an ex-radiological waste dump, but that's mighty abstract to the folks in Hunter's Point. It's pretty brilliant, because you really can't focus on any individual in particular to punish for its sins. Which in the end makes the USA's class system much more fault tolerant, because revolt against it has to take the form of amorphous, unactionable rants about the System.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    That county DA doesn't give a shit how rich you are. Being rich doesn't get you out of "poor people" crimes that revolve around physical evidence (as opposed to "rich people" crimes that revolve around knowledge/intent). There's a great scene in "Michael Clayton" where a rich banker calls his lawyer because he hit a bicyclist in his car and fled the scene. The lawyer basically tells him: "I don't know what you think I can do for you, you're fucked." It's a realistic depiction of this situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ckEptxp3s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ckEptxp3s.
    - vacri 14y ago
      The lawyer can give legal advice on what to say and not say, how best to approach the issue, what looks best when taking it to court. Maybe not get off scot-free, but minimise the punishment. Are there any options other than fronting up to court? Mediation? Medical costs? Perhaps filing your admission in a different jurisdiction might help (though I doubt it in the given case)? Even just having someone who's calm, collected, and dispassionate speak at the trial can be an advantage.
      - rayiner 14y ago
        In a criminal charge for something like battery, a lot of the usual legal maneuvering isn't available. There's no mediation, no settlements, no forum shopping jurisdictions, no expert witnesses. All you've got is a prosecutor who is trying to make an example out of you and police with evidence showing you did it. Ultimately, you're going to get the punishment the judge and the jury think you should get. Now, that doesn't mean you're going to get the same punishment as the poor black guy, but that's not because it helps to be rich, but because it hurts to be poor or black. Juries don't give poor black guys the benefit of the doubt, they have trouble empathizing with people of a different race, their character witnesses don't come across as sympathetic, etc.
- neckbeard 14y ago
  Must be a different USA to this one: http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101104/NEWS/101109939/1078 http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101104/NEWS/101109939/107...
mayanksinghal 14y ago
> There are countless cases of where rich people would push poor people on bikes off the road and into ditches with their cars. This is just one part of the story that helped your narrative. It is always the fault of the person with the larger vehicle in India, from what I know about the society. If you are involved in an accident and survived, pray to God that you were in the smaller vehicle, otherwise the crowd might beat you death - if they feel like it [1,2,3 and countless others]. From my own anecdote, I was almost hit by a motorbike while being on a cycle, due to my own fault. Not even a scratch, but I had to help the other man not be bullied by the crowd to pay me money. And pushing people into ditches has nothing to do with being rich, it has to do with being an asshole. Yes there is widespread casteism (religious or economic) but not every unlawful, unfair act has be attributed to the same evil. [1] http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-09-28/surat/34147799_1_irate-mob-school-bus-sarthana http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-09-28/surat... [2] http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-09-06/nagpur/27926743_1_mob-torches-truck-kavita-meher-sagar-meher http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-09-06/nagpu... [3] http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-28/rajkot/27998051_1_mob-torches-bus-hits-cyclist-irate-mob http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-28/rajko...

by knodi 14y ago

16s 14y ago

There are countless cases of where rich people would push poor people on bikes off the road and into ditches with their cars. That would be a serious crime in the USA. If you did that, and you got caught, you would be in very serious trouble. And, it would not matter how rich you were. That's assault, perhaps with intent to harm or kill and civilized society does not tolerate it.

nbouscal 14y ago
> it would not matter how rich you were. Which USA do you live in?
- cellis 14y ago
  A valid question. I don't think someone would be able to get away with that in my USA (SF bay area) irrespective of wealth. But perhaps in a more provincial part, like, say Alabama...
- 16s 14y ago
  Every part of America I have ever been in would not tolerate that. It's illegal.
  - wilfra 14y ago
    It may not be as bad as some countries where you can just pay the cops but the rich and well connected in America definitely play by a different set of rules, especially with regard to punishment. Example: a rich old woman in my hometown was drunk in the morning and ran over a guy riding a bicycle and killed him. She ended up getting probation. Not a day in jail. Put a poor minority behind the wheel of that car and they are going to prison for a long time.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      That's race/age not wealth. If it had been a young, rich, black guy in an Escalade what do you think a jury would have done?
      - wilfra 14y ago
        Depends who his lawyer was and how many people he and his lawyer know in the local criminal justice system. Connections are just as important as wealth - sometimes moreso. See George Zimmerman (father is a judge) who would have walked were it not for the Worldwide media shining a spotlight on the case.
    - corporalagumbo 14y ago
      That's an entirely different problem set from what seems to be happening in India. What you're describing in the US is a system where perceptions and punishment of superficially similar behaviour vary based on your position with society, namely based on whether you activate the sympathies or antipathies of the mainstream establishment. I.E. that old lady is much less likely to be perceived as aggressive and anti-social in court than a young minority member. The system is not completely fair, and you can argue about the extent to which the system is unfair, but the system at least holds fairness as an ideal, and the mainstream establishment identifies with this ideal. Cops and judges may not perceive it as unfair if a similar crime when committed by an old rich lady is more likely to be viewed as a regrettable mistake (especially if she appears distraught and repentant in court) than when committed by a minority member. In India it seems like fairness is not even part of the equation. It sounds like a seriously dog-eat-dog environment, where there are few if any checks on raw, ruthless antisocial behaviour. Society lacks even the value system which would encourage the privileged to feel guilt and regret over their treatment of those beneath them. Basically it is the difference between a society where people are shocked and angered by unfairness and a society where people are desensitised or even perversely excited by unfairness.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- scarmig 14y ago
  The USA has mostly evolved (I use that word advisedly) beyond that. There's certainly all kinds of horrific things about the USA's class system. But the USA has to a large extent depersonalized them: if you as an individual commit physical violence against another individual, you go through our legal system and you get punished. Where the USA's class system goes wrong is in vaguer systemic issues. Everyone equally has the chance to get an expensive lawyer to argue you down to a lesser sentence, but few can afford the best. Everyone equally has the chance to purchase a house that's not in an ex-radiological waste dump, but that's mighty abstract to the folks in Hunter's Point. It's pretty brilliant, because you really can't focus on any individual in particular to punish for its sins. Which in the end makes the USA's class system much more fault tolerant, because revolt against it has to take the form of amorphous, unactionable rants about the System.
- rayiner 14y ago
  That county DA doesn't give a shit how rich you are. Being rich doesn't get you out of "poor people" crimes that revolve around physical evidence (as opposed to "rich people" crimes that revolve around knowledge/intent). There's a great scene in "Michael Clayton" where a rich banker calls his lawyer because he hit a bicyclist in his car and fled the scene. The lawyer basically tells him: "I don't know what you think I can do for you, you're fucked." It's a realistic depiction of this situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ckEptxp3s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ckEptxp3s.
  - vacri 14y ago
    The lawyer can give legal advice on what to say and not say, how best to approach the issue, what looks best when taking it to court. Maybe not get off scot-free, but minimise the punishment. Are there any options other than fronting up to court? Mediation? Medical costs? Perhaps filing your admission in a different jurisdiction might help (though I doubt it in the given case)? Even just having someone who's calm, collected, and dispassionate speak at the trial can be an advantage.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      In a criminal charge for something like battery, a lot of the usual legal maneuvering isn't available. There's no mediation, no settlements, no forum shopping jurisdictions, no expert witnesses. All you've got is a prosecutor who is trying to make an example out of you and police with evidence showing you did it. Ultimately, you're going to get the punishment the judge and the jury think you should get. Now, that doesn't mean you're going to get the same punishment as the poor black guy, but that's not because it helps to be rich, but because it hurts to be poor or black. Juries don't give poor black guys the benefit of the doubt, they have trouble empathizing with people of a different race, their character witnesses don't come across as sympathetic, etc.
neckbeard 14y ago
Must be a different USA to this one: http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101104/NEWS/101109939/1078 http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101104/NEWS/101109939/107...

mayanksinghal 14y ago

> There are countless cases of where rich people would push poor people on bikes off the road and into ditches with their cars. This is just one part of the story that helped your narrative. It is always the fault of the person with the larger vehicle in India, from what I know about the society. If you are involved in an accident and survived, pray to God that you were in the smaller vehicle, otherwise the crowd might beat you death - if they feel like it [1,2,3 and countless others]. From my own anecdote, I was almost hit by a motorbike while being on a cycle, due to my own fault. Not even a scratch, but I had to help the other man not be bullied by the crowd to pay me money. And pushing people into ditches has nothing to do with being rich, it has to do with being an asshole. Yes there is widespread casteism (religious or economic) but not every unlawful, unfair act has be attributed to the same evil. [1] http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-09-28/surat/34147799_1_irate-mob-school-bus-sarthana http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-09-28/surat... [2] http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-09-06/nagpur/27926743_1_mob-torches-truck-kavita-meher-sagar-meher http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-09-06/nagpu... [3] http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-28/rajkot/27998051_1_mob-torches-bus-hits-cyclist-irate-mob http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-28/rajko...