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You guys in this thread whining about google: It isn't google that has changed, it is the whole world which has changed. Look at the things that some of you c

by blhack 14y ago

You guys in this thread whining about google: It isn't google that has changed, it is the whole world which has changed. Look at the things that some of you champion; the iPhone, the iPad...anything running iOS, anything made by apple computer, the company that is pushing the hardest against openness on the internet. Oh, you want some basic browser functionality like uploading files? Spend time learning objective C, writing an app, submitting it to us (can't let anything edgy get through! Don't use any APIs we don't like!) and then selling it in our closed off app store so that people stay in our warm walled in garden of shiny plastic. You talk about "growth hackers" or "hustlers" as if these people are anything but parasites on our creative culture. Yeah, google does some shitty things. Google+ is obnoxious. Some of the stuff happening with youtube is obnoxious, but google remains as one of the coolest companies in the world, still funding the coolest things in the world just because they can. If a little bit of annoying google+ talk is the price that humanity has to pay for things like google driverless cars, google glass, and google fiber FINALLY holding bandwidth providers to task on bringing fiber to the curb, then GOOD. I will continue to take that deal. The people whining about google+ will too. Oh hey! You know we could just give it all back. Back goes chrome! Remember when firefox leaked memory like a sieve but we all STILL ran it because there wasn't a viable alternative (unless you were double super extra hip and ran Opera) Back goes android! Enjoy choosing between Apples complete joke of a mobile operating system and RIM, or palm. Back goes google glass! Maybe Microsoft will sink the money required into developing a viable headmounted display. Back goes google cars! Oh! Maybe Mercedes will license some garbage developed by a defense contractor in the 90s and sell it on their most expensive luxury cars. Reading this thread reads like I'm reading the comments of a bunch of spoiled children. If you seriously hate google+ this much, then good! Use all of these wonderful, world changing tools we have around us and "hustle" and "growth hack" your way into a brand new web browser and suite of free mail, spam filtering, document storage, and search. I look forward to see it!

lwhi 14y ago
This is a narrow sighted viewpoint. Google is a corporation that wants to win. Most corporations are the same. The fact that they are looking out for their own interests, doesn't mean we shouldn't look out for our own.
kunai 14y ago
There is nothing Google Glass does that my smartphone already can't. And how is Apple waging war against openness? WebKit is open-source. They're pushing HTML5 against Flash (open vs proprietary). Darwin (OS X without Quartz and DPS) is open source. A few of the apps included with OS X are open-source. Google cars? Driverless car research has been going on for years, both before and alongside Google. Look, I'm not badmouthing their accomplishments. All I'm saying is that they're just not the company they used to be.
- NewAccnt 14y ago
  HTML5 is not standard, certainly not open. Everyone abandoned WebKit for some unknown reason having to do with Apple. Please list these OSS Apps, I would love to know since Google and Wikpedia say nothing like that.
  - kunai 14y ago
    TextEdit and Chess are two.
    - UntitledNo4 14y ago
      And even more important - CUPS.
      - gizzlon 14y ago
        Yes, but they didn't create CUPS. Keeping it open source might have been a conditions of the purchase (citation needed :)
        UntitledNo4 14y ago
        Perhaps you're right, I don't know, but for me it's irrelevant. Someone wanted examples of OSS from Apple, and in my opinion it's the most important one when I was a Linux User. I was not trying to defend Apple. I think they deserve a lot of criticism they receive, but that they also deserve some credit. This is also true for most (if not all) other firms that are often discussed here. Just wanted to highlight that rarely are things black or white, but that we rather deal with a lot of different shades of grey.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
freshhawk 14y ago
I really agree with you, except for one minor point: You are still thinking of google as if it's the "old google". Definitely before Google+ and probably even before the adwords division started calling all the shots. That's when google could have been called "one of the coolest companies in the world". Now they are heavily invested in building their own walled garden. Maybe it's not even anyone being "evil", and it's just an emergent behaviour. That doesn't change the fact that google is a giant surveillance machine. Argue that it's benign or that you trust them, but that's still what it is. A non-evil system of ubiquitous surveillance is an oxymoron. I admit I'm excited by google cars and google glass, but I worry I won't end up being able to use them. Is there any chance they won't report on everything you see and do to google servers to be sold to/subpoenaed by whoever wants it?
- Helianthus 14y ago
  Google glass and cars are the vestiges of the old Google. The travesty is that they are subservient to G+.
  - alanctgardner2 14y ago
    Is there any evidence to back this up? In terms of consumer products, Google Now is also pretty awesome, and has no interaction with G+ that I've seen.
  - adamisen 13y ago
    Google Glass is new Google. It's a walled garden that requires a Google server to function. It's more of a greenhouse, really...
- silverbax88 14y ago
  Something that has happened to me over the past month that I never thought would happen - I'm actively looking to use Bing and DuckDuckGo over Google. Bing, something I laughed at just a few months ago. Google's results are starting to waver and the Google+ requirement is a cancer eating their products from the inside.
NewAccnt 14y ago
Your absolutely right on all accounts but you could have presented your argument in a less aggressive manner, despite the rampant fanboy-ism, transparently willful ignorance and fellatious marketing.
- rimantas 14y ago
  He is wrong on many accounts.
  - ofacup 14y ago
    i'm sure he is. you however have named 0. makes you the biggest failure of all
white_devil 14y ago
> Apples complete joke of a mobile operating system How could you possibly think iOS is a "complete joke".. without being a raging GooGoo fanboy, that is?
- pointyhatuk 14y ago
  Perhaps the GP owns a windows phone :)
- iand 14y ago
  There should be an equivalent of Godwin's law for the word fanboy and its derivatives. When I see it I immediately know rational conversation is over.
  - white_devil 14y ago
    A fanboy is a fanboy. There's nothing wrong with pointing one out. Just be glad I didn't spell it "fanboi".
    - DanBC 14y ago
      The post you replied to (with the "GooGoo Fanboy" term) was overly vociferous. But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. People probably thought you had a good point, but you lose that when you use words like 'googoo fanboy'. And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more.
      - white_devil 14y ago
        > But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. Any discussion with a raging fanboy is dead to begin with. He will reject anything that goes against his rose-tinted view of Google. Reason and logic won't reach him, and that's why it's alright to just call him a fanboy and move on, even though that's pointless too, of course. In this case, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of calling iOS a "complete joke". > And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more. That's alright. He's already plenty entrenched. He'll change his views when he has to.
return0 14y ago
This guy is right. A lot of it has to do with the demise of the PC too. You can't build a Napster on underpowered and severely restrictive phones and tablets, so the net is increasingly becoming the new cable TV. However, by design, the internet is not destined to be like that, and it will not be. The past few years may have been an aberration.
- marcosdumay 14y ago
  Well, the phones and tablets get less underpowered and restrictive each day. Current phones are way more powerfull than PCs were when Napster was launched. They could easily run something like it today. As they are also powerfull enough to decide what to do with meta tags (or the more modern semantic ones) and to keep several dictionaries of data in place. They just don't do that for marketing reasons. I also think that things CAN change, but I doubt that change is that inevitable as you say.
  - return0 13y ago
    How is it that they get less restrictive each day?
mtct 14y ago
> If a little bit of annoying google+ talk is the price that humanity has to pay for things like google driverless cars, google glass, and google fiber FINALLY holding bandwidth providers to task on bringing fiber to the curb, then GOOD. Driverless cars and Internet fiber to the curb aren't Google inventions.
- adamisen 14y ago
  Nor HMDs. I want all three of these things to become mature, affordable products. I don't really want any of them from an advertising company.
  - mtct 14y ago
    Just for info. The research team at my university on driverless cars. http://vislab.it/ http://vislab.it/ From Parma (Italy) to Shangai(China), 15000 kilometers report http://vislab.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/21-VisLab-VIAC-done.pdf http://vislab.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/21-VisLab-VIAC-d... Without hype and before Google.
- bjustin 14y ago
  That's a silly argument; you don't have to be the first to do something to be the first to make a difference with it. See: the computer GUI, Google's search engine, Apple's iPod, Apple's iPhone, etc. Google Fiber is certainly a big deal at 3-8x as fast as the fastest generally available consumer connection. Comcast only goes up to 150-300mbps in their fastest markets, for much more than the $70/month Google Fiber costs.
rimantas 14y ago
> Look at the things that some of you champion; the > iPhone, the iPad...anything running iOS, anything > made by apple computer, the company that is pushing > hardest against openness on the internet. What a bunch of nonsense. Even the first iPhone had a browser which supported more of HTML5/CSS3 than desktop browsers at the time. It was not Google, it was Apple who brought canvas, css transforms, css animations to WebKit. > Oh, you want some basic browser functionality like > uploading files? Spend time learning objective C, Or spend some time learning that Safar on iOS 6 supports file input. > submitting it to us (can't let anything edgy get > through! Don't use any APIs we don't like!) How about 60 000 apps ditched by Google? > shiny plastic. It's glass and aluminium. And for some reason more people use web on iOS devices than on that oh-so-open and pro-web Android. Seriously, how long ago did stock Android browser stop to suck?
- cyborgx7 14y ago
  >Even the first iPhone had a browser which supported more of HTML5/CSS3 than desktop browsers at the time. Except for the feature that most people mainly use plugins for: audio/video-playback. Only supporting proprietary codecs can hardly be considered open web support. >How about 60 000 apps ditched by Google? I don't think you can compare a curated marketplace with a walled garden. There is a difference between jailbreaking and tapping a checkbox to allow third party apps. All that said I can't agree with the first comment either. I used to be a fanboy of Google but I'm having a harder and harder time justifying it with some of their recent moves.
  - adamisen 13y ago
    Apple's early support for HTML5 audio/video tags is worlds better than the contemporary alternative. It seems plausible to me that without Apple's refusal to support Flash the audio and video tags would never have taken off. Isn't the open video codec problem still unresolved?
- nr0mx 14y ago
  Your recent comment on Apple pulling AppGratis from the App Store - "Go and innovate on Android, what's the problem. Or make your own platform and innovate there. Or use HTML5. What makes me sad is constant whining about stuff like this." - doesn't exactly reconcile with your disputing the OPs point regarding Apple and openness or taking objection to OPs stance on guys whining about Google. That is, unless your first retort had nothing at all to do with the OPs point about openness.
jezfromfuture 14y ago
Lol and your post reads like a google PR post.
- reinhardt 14y ago
  I'd love to read a PR piece mentioning "yeah, google does some shitty things. Google+ is obnoxious. Some of the stuff happening with youtube is obnoxious".
workbench 14y ago
GDF out in full force, how is this joke of a comment that doesn't even understand the most basic of things like where webkit came from by the top of the list.
- Intermernet 14y ago
  KHTML? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML#KHTML_and_Apple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML#KHTML_and_Apple
anoncow 14y ago
I agree with everything you are saying. If it wasn't for Google+ affecting search results, I wouldn't bother. But Google+ with the tied-in votes and google+ authorship data means websites have to sign up for a proprietary social network. Switch the votes to an open system(or do away with it) and use microdata alone for authorship. Keep search clean and don't indulge in anti-competitive behaviour.
moogleii 14y ago
Quite the rose-tinted glasses you got on there. Relax. Besides, I'm not sure which is worse: spoiled children or slightly delusional children. Remember when Android didn't have Chrome? Or any version prior to ICS really. But whatever floats your boat.
- ansgri 14y ago
  Just somehow when my Galaxy S2 updated to ICS it became noticeably worse. Maybe just a bit more responsive. And what's wrong with Opera Mobile excapt slightly wrong rendering on some sites? Btw, looking for a new smartphone and still the best option seems to be the same SGS2 without upgrade to ICS.
natem345 14y ago
Is there an article detailing where Mercedes/others are getting their self-driving technology from? I'm just curious; the timing does seem oddly quick, and they sure sound optimistic.
Houshalter 14y ago
Few things are truly all good or all bad. Google can do shitty things, be imperfect, and it doesn't mean they still aren't a good company. But we should still be allowed to discuss things they do wrong without being called "spoiled children".
Spoom 14y ago
"Oh hey! You know we could just give it all back." Because I don't like part of a company, I have to avoid using any other part of that company? Or if I don't, I can't complain about the part of the company I don't like? I don't subscribe to such black and white thinking.
pdog 13y ago
How is Apple's iOS a "complete joke of a mobile operating system" when it was so revolutionary and years ahead of its time in 2007? We're used to it now, but it really seemed like magic at the time.

by blhack 14y ago

lwhi 14y ago

This is a narrow sighted viewpoint. Google is a corporation that wants to win. Most corporations are the same. The fact that they are looking out for their own interests, doesn't mean we shouldn't look out for our own.

kunai 14y ago

There is nothing Google Glass does that my smartphone already can't. And how is Apple waging war against openness? WebKit is open-source. They're pushing HTML5 against Flash (open vs proprietary). Darwin (OS X without Quartz and DPS) is open source. A few of the apps included with OS X are open-source. Google cars? Driverless car research has been going on for years, both before and alongside Google. Look, I'm not badmouthing their accomplishments. All I'm saying is that they're just not the company they used to be.

NewAccnt 14y ago
HTML5 is not standard, certainly not open. Everyone abandoned WebKit for some unknown reason having to do with Apple. Please list these OSS Apps, I would love to know since Google and Wikpedia say nothing like that.
- kunai 14y ago
  TextEdit and Chess are two.
  - UntitledNo4 14y ago
    And even more important - CUPS.
    - gizzlon 14y ago
      Yes, but they didn't create CUPS. Keeping it open source might have been a conditions of the purchase (citation needed :)
      - UntitledNo4 14y ago
        Perhaps you're right, I don't know, but for me it's irrelevant. Someone wanted examples of OSS from Apple, and in my opinion it's the most important one when I was a Linux User. I was not trying to defend Apple. I think they deserve a lot of criticism they receive, but that they also deserve some credit. This is also true for most (if not all) other firms that are often discussed here. Just wanted to highlight that rarely are things black or white, but that we rather deal with a lot of different shades of grey.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

freshhawk 14y ago

I really agree with you, except for one minor point: You are still thinking of google as if it's the "old google". Definitely before Google+ and probably even before the adwords division started calling all the shots. That's when google could have been called "one of the coolest companies in the world". Now they are heavily invested in building their own walled garden. Maybe it's not even anyone being "evil", and it's just an emergent behaviour. That doesn't change the fact that google is a giant surveillance machine. Argue that it's benign or that you trust them, but that's still what it is. A non-evil system of ubiquitous surveillance is an oxymoron. I admit I'm excited by google cars and google glass, but I worry I won't end up being able to use them. Is there any chance they won't report on everything you see and do to google servers to be sold to/subpoenaed by whoever wants it?

Helianthus 14y ago
Google glass and cars are the vestiges of the old Google. The travesty is that they are subservient to G+.
- alanctgardner2 14y ago
  Is there any evidence to back this up? In terms of consumer products, Google Now is also pretty awesome, and has no interaction with G+ that I've seen.
- adamisen 13y ago
  Google Glass is new Google. It's a walled garden that requires a Google server to function. It's more of a greenhouse, really...
silverbax88 14y ago
Something that has happened to me over the past month that I never thought would happen - I'm actively looking to use Bing and DuckDuckGo over Google. Bing, something I laughed at just a few months ago. Google's results are starting to waver and the Google+ requirement is a cancer eating their products from the inside.

NewAccnt 14y ago

Your absolutely right on all accounts but you could have presented your argument in a less aggressive manner, despite the rampant fanboy-ism, transparently willful ignorance and fellatious marketing.

rimantas 14y ago
He is wrong on many accounts.
- ofacup 14y ago
  i'm sure he is. you however have named 0. makes you the biggest failure of all

white_devil 14y ago

> Apples complete joke of a mobile operating system How could you possibly think iOS is a "complete joke".. without being a raging GooGoo fanboy, that is?

pointyhatuk 14y ago
Perhaps the GP owns a windows phone :)
iand 14y ago
There should be an equivalent of Godwin's law for the word fanboy and its derivatives. When I see it I immediately know rational conversation is over.
- white_devil 14y ago
  A fanboy is a fanboy. There's nothing wrong with pointing one out. Just be glad I didn't spell it "fanboi".
  - DanBC 14y ago
    The post you replied to (with the "GooGoo Fanboy" term) was overly vociferous. But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. People probably thought you had a good point, but you lose that when you use words like 'googoo fanboy'. And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more.
    - white_devil 14y ago
      > But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. Any discussion with a raging fanboy is dead to begin with. He will reject anything that goes against his rose-tinted view of Google. Reason and logic won't reach him, and that's why it's alright to just call him a fanboy and move on, even though that's pointless too, of course. In this case, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of calling iOS a "complete joke". > And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more. That's alright. He's already plenty entrenched. He'll change his views when he has to.

return0 14y ago

This guy is right. A lot of it has to do with the demise of the PC too. You can't build a Napster on underpowered and severely restrictive phones and tablets, so the net is increasingly becoming the new cable TV. However, by design, the internet is not destined to be like that, and it will not be. The past few years may have been an aberration.

marcosdumay 14y ago
Well, the phones and tablets get less underpowered and restrictive each day. Current phones are way more powerfull than PCs were when Napster was launched. They could easily run something like it today. As they are also powerfull enough to decide what to do with meta tags (or the more modern semantic ones) and to keep several dictionaries of data in place. They just don't do that for marketing reasons. I also think that things CAN change, but I doubt that change is that inevitable as you say.
- return0 13y ago
  How is it that they get less restrictive each day?

mtct 14y ago

> If a little bit of annoying google+ talk is the price that humanity has to pay for things like google driverless cars, google glass, and google fiber FINALLY holding bandwidth providers to task on bringing fiber to the curb, then GOOD. Driverless cars and Internet fiber to the curb aren't Google inventions.

adamisen 14y ago
Nor HMDs. I want all three of these things to become mature, affordable products. I don't really want any of them from an advertising company.
- mtct 14y ago
  Just for info. The research team at my university on driverless cars. http://vislab.it/ http://vislab.it/ From Parma (Italy) to Shangai(China), 15000 kilometers report http://vislab.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/21-VisLab-VIAC-done.pdf http://vislab.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/21-VisLab-VIAC-d... Without hype and before Google.
bjustin 14y ago
That's a silly argument; you don't have to be the first to do something to be the first to make a difference with it. See: the computer GUI, Google's search engine, Apple's iPod, Apple's iPhone, etc. Google Fiber is certainly a big deal at 3-8x as fast as the fastest generally available consumer connection. Comcast only goes up to 150-300mbps in their fastest markets, for much more than the $70/month Google Fiber costs.

rimantas 14y ago

> Look at the things that some of you champion; the > iPhone, the iPad...anything running iOS, anything > made by apple computer, the company that is pushing > hardest against openness on the internet. What a bunch of nonsense. Even the first iPhone had a browser which supported more of HTML5/CSS3 than desktop browsers at the time. It was not Google, it was Apple who brought canvas, css transforms, css animations to WebKit. > Oh, you want some basic browser functionality like > uploading files? Spend time learning objective C, Or spend some time learning that Safar on iOS 6 supports file input. > submitting it to us (can't let anything edgy get > through! Don't use any APIs we don't like!) How about 60 000 apps ditched by Google? > shiny plastic. It's glass and aluminium. And for some reason more people use web on iOS devices than on that oh-so-open and pro-web Android. Seriously, how long ago did stock Android browser stop to suck?

cyborgx7 14y ago
>Even the first iPhone had a browser which supported more of HTML5/CSS3 than desktop browsers at the time. Except for the feature that most people mainly use plugins for: audio/video-playback. Only supporting proprietary codecs can hardly be considered open web support. >How about 60 000 apps ditched by Google? I don't think you can compare a curated marketplace with a walled garden. There is a difference between jailbreaking and tapping a checkbox to allow third party apps. All that said I can't agree with the first comment either. I used to be a fanboy of Google but I'm having a harder and harder time justifying it with some of their recent moves.
- adamisen 13y ago
  Apple's early support for HTML5 audio/video tags is worlds better than the contemporary alternative. It seems plausible to me that without Apple's refusal to support Flash the audio and video tags would never have taken off. Isn't the open video codec problem still unresolved?
nr0mx 14y ago
Your recent comment on Apple pulling AppGratis from the App Store - "Go and innovate on Android, what's the problem. Or make your own platform and innovate there. Or use HTML5. What makes me sad is constant whining about stuff like this." - doesn't exactly reconcile with your disputing the OPs point regarding Apple and openness or taking objection to OPs stance on guys whining about Google. That is, unless your first retort had nothing at all to do with the OPs point about openness.

jezfromfuture 14y ago

Lol and your post reads like a google PR post.

reinhardt 14y ago
I'd love to read a PR piece mentioning "yeah, google does some shitty things. Google+ is obnoxious. Some of the stuff happening with youtube is obnoxious".

workbench 14y ago

GDF out in full force, how is this joke of a comment that doesn't even understand the most basic of things like where webkit came from by the top of the list.

Intermernet 14y ago
KHTML? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML#KHTML_and_Apple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML#KHTML_and_Apple

anoncow 14y ago

I agree with everything you are saying. If it wasn't for Google+ affecting search results, I wouldn't bother. But Google+ with the tied-in votes and google+ authorship data means websites have to sign up for a proprietary social network. Switch the votes to an open system(or do away with it) and use microdata alone for authorship. Keep search clean and don't indulge in anti-competitive behaviour.

moogleii 14y ago

Quite the rose-tinted glasses you got on there. Relax. Besides, I'm not sure which is worse: spoiled children or slightly delusional children. Remember when Android didn't have Chrome? Or any version prior to ICS really. But whatever floats your boat.

ansgri 14y ago
Just somehow when my Galaxy S2 updated to ICS it became noticeably worse. Maybe just a bit more responsive. And what's wrong with Opera Mobile excapt slightly wrong rendering on some sites? Btw, looking for a new smartphone and still the best option seems to be the same SGS2 without upgrade to ICS.

natem345 14y ago

Is there an article detailing where Mercedes/others are getting their self-driving technology from? I'm just curious; the timing does seem oddly quick, and they sure sound optimistic.

Houshalter 14y ago

Few things are truly all good or all bad. Google can do shitty things, be imperfect, and it doesn't mean they still aren't a good company. But we should still be allowed to discuss things they do wrong without being called "spoiled children".

Spoom 14y ago

"Oh hey! You know we could just give it all back." Because I don't like part of a company, I have to avoid using any other part of that company? Or if I don't, I can't complain about the part of the company I don't like? I don't subscribe to such black and white thinking.

pdog 13y ago

How is Apple's iOS a "complete joke of a mobile operating system" when it was so revolutionary and years ahead of its time in 2007? We're used to it now, but it really seemed like magic at the time.