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Overstayed the web's welcome? I'm not convinced that's happened yet. I certainly don't disagree with your points, but it's moot. Normal users don't care about

Overstayed the web's welcome? I'm not convinced that's happened yet. I certainly don't disagree with your points, but it's moot. Normal users don't care about things like "privacy" or "neutrality" or "standards". If it works and is free, that's good enough. And the page views Google gets is testament to the fact that nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. Heck, I (and most people here) use GMail+Search+Docs+etc for the same reasons "normal" people do.. the privacy I give up is worth the convenience of their products.

mindcrime 14y ago
... nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. Until they do. And that's the rub. Even non-hackers often eventually get burned by these issues, but they aren't usually thinking about any of this stuff in advance. They lack awareness. What that tells me is that we need to find a way to do a better of educating people on the importance of things like "privacy" or "neutrality" or "standards". How best to do that is, of course, an open question...
mnicole 14y ago
> nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. People say the same thing about non-technical people using Facebook, but it isn't all that truthful. They have legitimate concerns, they're just waiting on the internet-at-large to determine the next best thing before expending any energy on making the switch.
_delirium 14y ago
That's part of what makes this strategy a bit strange, because "normal" users don't care about or use Google+ either.
ianstormtaylor 14y ago
> Normal users don't care about things like "privacy" ... This is not true. If you explained exactly what the extension was doing to a normal user I can almost guarantee they wouldn't like it. No one wants every website they visit to be looked at by an external source. The problem is it's not obvious this is happening. Hell, I'm a web developer and even I wouldn't have thought twice about how Google was displaying this information to me. The technology has gotten so far outside of a "normal users"'s grasp that it's not even fair anymore. They care about privacy, they just have no way of knowing each and every way their privacy can be eroded. Luckily no one uses Google+ so the extension is pretty useless...
- robryan 14y ago
  Wouldn't my ISP also be recording this information? Your non https browsing is also being sent through countless routers you have no control over. Hell even Google is already tracking you through GA, the +1 button and Adsense. And if you are using Chrome everything you type in the search bar is being sent to power autocomplete.
  - e12e 14y ago
    > Wouldn't my ISP also be recording this information? In most countries your ISP would not be allowed to log that information, except for a) billing purposes, or b) in conjunction with the new spying laws. Even then, only traffic information is stored, only for the purpose of surrendering it after law enforcement produces a warrant, and it can only be stored for a limited time (3 or 6 months). This isn't very nice either -- but most places there are some very strict laws on storing, and using communication data.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
gurkendoktor 14y ago
> And the page views Google gets is testament to the fact that nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. And every car on the road is a testament to the fact that nobody outside of Greenpeace has any issues with the oil industry? :) There is no good alternative to Google Search. In my social circles in Germany, only HN-esque people use Google's other products like GMail, many don't use FB either for privacy concerns. I'd even say that distrust in Google is one of the factors that Germans strongly favour Firefox over Google (according to http://gs.statcounter.com http://gs.statcounter.com). And that's just one country... User groups are more complex than HN/non HN.

mindcrime 14y ago

... nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. Until they do. And that's the rub. Even non-hackers often eventually get burned by these issues, but they aren't usually thinking about any of this stuff in advance. They lack awareness. What that tells me is that we need to find a way to do a better of educating people on the importance of things like "privacy" or "neutrality" or "standards". How best to do that is, of course, an open question...

mnicole 14y ago

> nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. People say the same thing about non-technical people using Facebook, but it isn't all that truthful. They have legitimate concerns, they're just waiting on the internet-at-large to determine the next best thing before expending any energy on making the switch.

_delirium 14y ago

That's part of what makes this strategy a bit strange, because "normal" users don't care about or use Google+ either.

ianstormtaylor 14y ago

> Normal users don't care about things like "privacy" ... This is not true. If you explained exactly what the extension was doing to a normal user I can almost guarantee they wouldn't like it. No one wants every website they visit to be looked at by an external source. The problem is it's not obvious this is happening. Hell, I'm a web developer and even I wouldn't have thought twice about how Google was displaying this information to me. The technology has gotten so far outside of a "normal users"'s grasp that it's not even fair anymore. They care about privacy, they just have no way of knowing each and every way their privacy can be eroded. Luckily no one uses Google+ so the extension is pretty useless...

robryan 14y ago
Wouldn't my ISP also be recording this information? Your non https browsing is also being sent through countless routers you have no control over. Hell even Google is already tracking you through GA, the +1 button and Adsense. And if you are using Chrome everything you type in the search bar is being sent to power autocomplete.
- e12e 14y ago
  > Wouldn't my ISP also be recording this information? In most countries your ISP would not be allowed to log that information, except for a) billing purposes, or b) in conjunction with the new spying laws. Even then, only traffic information is stored, only for the purpose of surrendering it after law enforcement produces a warrant, and it can only be stored for a limited time (3 or 6 months). This isn't very nice either -- but most places there are some very strict laws on storing, and using communication data.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

gurkendoktor 14y ago

> And the page views Google gets is testament to the fact that nobody outside of the HN-esque world has any issues with Google. And every car on the road is a testament to the fact that nobody outside of Greenpeace has any issues with the oil industry? :) There is no good alternative to Google Search. In my social circles in Germany, only HN-esque people use Google's other products like GMail, many don't use FB either for privacy concerns. I'd even say that distrust in Google is one of the factors that Germans strongly favour Firefox over Google (according to http://gs.statcounter.com http://gs.statcounter.com). And that's just one country... User groups are more complex than HN/non HN.