9 ms·

The underappreciated power of common courtesy

70 points by rishikhullar 13y ago

dpolaske 13y ago
I know exactly what you mean, I'm in the middle of the application process right now. When companies have a poor level of communication with me as a candidate, I definitely rethink my interest in them.
alexholehouse 13y ago
An acquaintance recently made a facebook update describing how they belittled and berated a coffee shop employee for making a (fairly bad, to be fair) mistake regarding change on a $20. I seriously considered leaving my office and going to the coffee shop to apologize for this person's behavior, and I personally am finished with this individual in both a social and professional context. There is pretty much nothing I find more offensive than rudeness when people make a mistake.
- joonix 13y ago
  What it comes down to is empathy. Empathetic people are able to put themselves in the shoes of others and understand their circumstances and use logic to rationalize their own emotions. In the long run, this type of person is better to work with. That's why they say look at how someone treats a waiter. An empathetic person understands the waiter made a mistake because they are overloaded with tables or their mind is frazzled because they're working their second job of the day with a sick kid at home. The person who lacks empathy will only suspect pure incompetence or malice as the cause and have an outburst or berate the terrible service.
- kogus 13y ago
  An important aspect here is the fact that the coffee shop employee is powerless in this situation - they could lose their job if they reply with equal rudeness. How we interact with those who have less power in a situation is very revealing of our character. I can't stand it when a person is only polite to people who have some kind of leverage over them.
snowwrestler 13y ago
I'll share two insights I've learned over time about courtesy. 1) Being courteous, over the long term, gives you power. There have been a number of initiatives I've been able to get done at work, that others could not, simply because colleagues give me a greater benefit of the doubt. They do so because I have always treated them very well, even when we disagree. 2) To be truly courteous, you must be very organized. If you're unorganized, it's easy to lose track of things--and it will be impossible to keep track of the many niceties of small interactions. But these are what add up, over time, to a great reputation. Number 2 is an insight I have learned (and continue to learn) the hard way.
- rishikhullar 13y ago
  Thanks for these insights. I couldn't agree more.
- itsybitsycoder 13y ago
  Do you have any recommendations for how to stay organized enough that you can keep track of these things?
  - snowwrestler 13y ago
    I don't--it's something I struggle with, to be honest, which is probably why its value has become so apparent to me.
  - simonbarker87 13y ago
    I'm not sure if this is help or stating the obvious but I've found that consciously making the effort to remember stuff and record it in my mind goes a long way to staying organised on this front. I found the best way to start was with people's names, when someone says "Hi, I'm X" I try to response with "Hi X, it's good to meet you, I'm Simon". Just this simple repetition of their name goes a long way to committing it to memory, if you can say it a couple more times in the conversation you won't forget it again.
- ameister14 13y ago
  I'd add that you should always respond as quickly as possible. If when you receive something you immediately write a thank-you, for example, it always gets done. If you wait you can more easily lose track.
davidroberts 13y ago
From the very moment they could communicate, I worked hard to teach my children common courtesy. It was the best gift I could give them. They didn't go to fancy schools, they never took "enrichment" classes, but they know how to be nice to people and make friends. I think it paid off, because they are all doing pretty well. Courtesy makes you likable and smooths human relationships in everything you do. It gives you a huge edge. I don't understand why people don't do it. Maybe they grew up in an environment where courtesy is taken as weakness. Or maybe they are so convinced of their own merit that they feel there is no need to be nice to the "little people." Either way, they are seriously handicapping their future happiness. Courtesy offers so much gain for so little effort. From smiling and holding the door open for someone at the supermarket to giving a considerate reply to someone who went to the trouble to come in for an interview, courtesy makes life better for everyone. The return smile and sincere thank you from the person at the supermarket brightens your whole day. The rejected candidate who received your thoughtful message might be the exact fit for a later job. Similar to the quote in the original article, I believe you can learn a lot about a person by how they treat the hired help, whether it be at work or in a restaurant or hotel. If someone has no power of retribution, even if you are a selfish jerk, and you still treat them kindly, it's a pretty good sign you aren't a selfish jerk. On the other hand, if you are considering a future spouse or employer, and they treat servers and underlings like trash, someday they will treat you like trash too. Courtesy is karma. You give to others, it always comes back to you.
- hjay 13y ago
  I grew up with a mother who heavily emphasized respect and courtesy. Thank you for doing the same with your children, it often feels like this world is very lacking nowadays.
- Mz 13y ago
  I wish I could agree with you whole-heartedly but I cannot. I place a high value on treating others with respect, helping without expecting anything in return, etc. For some things, yes, I see clear evidence of "good karma" coming back to me. For other things, I feel like my life is a case of "no good deed goes unpunished." I am pretty angry and bitter about it. I feel like I must be doing something wrong somewhere, like I am stupidly casting pearls before swine or something. I can't figure out why I keep getting used and walked on. I can't figure out how to get taken seriously and turn all this supposed good karma to financial benefit in a business way. I strongly suspect part of it is that I am female and a lot of people seem to see me as motherly and seem to think "motherly" means I should cut my own throat for their benefit. At this point, articles of this sort just kind of piss me off. If going around being nice and helpful really paid, I should be a rich woman by now. But somehow that just does not happen for me. I wonder if women need some opposite message, if this message benefits those who already know all about extracting value from others. I don't know the answer. I just know that reading stuff like this feels like salt in very raw wounds for me.
hjay 13y ago
This really hits home. I had a few emails back and forth with the co-founder/CTO of a fairly successful startup that tried to recruit me back in January. We had a short Skype session, he basically "strung me along", vaguely brought up a homework assignment, and never got back. Like the author of this post, I emailed him back and checked for an update, but never got a response. And to think I actually referred people to use their service before. Since this incident, I have lost a ton of respect for this person specifically. Not because we were not a good fit for each other, but because of the 360 degree change in attitude once he had no use for you. A bit sad to say this person is probably on HN too. In contrast, his email responses while trying to recruit me originally were always within 24 hours, usually between 5~25 minutes. Fairly lengthy emails too. It's not that difficult to let someone know if you don't think you (and I) are not the best fit for each other. Show some respect.
spitx 13y ago
Courtesy without consequence, clout or wherewithal is a dud. Let me unpack that a bit: People walk all over courteous people especially when they wield no social clout or when the person is of little consequence, in general. Courtesy is too often taken -- in North American circles these days -- to be a dose of deference paid in advance for a future (and usually much larger) reciprocal dose of consideration or favor of some kind. In short, unless you wield considerable worth ( of some kind ) no one's going to rule in your favor -- and against a much more formidable party -- owing to your courteousness. It's unfortunate.
- tomjen3 13y ago
  How is me saying good morning going to mean that everybody will run over me? Don't mistake curtesey from not standing up for your rights or agreeing to things you don't actually agreed with -- a "no, sorry I am not going to be able to come in on the weekend" is curtious, yet also standing up for your self -- "I don't work weekends" accomplish the same, but is less curtius.
  - spitx 13y ago
    I think some of the confusion in this whole thread would go away if people submitted their takes on where ( for them ) courtesy ends and firmness or assertiveness or strictness in demeanor towards others begins. Where exactly are they willing to end their train of courteous acts and begin being very stiff in their gives and takes with society. We tend to hold important / formidable / consequential people higher in regard than nice / courteous / generous people. It is very very rare that one finds those both diametrical qualities in the same person. A person is either a degree more assertive than he or she is courteous. Or alternately a degree less assertive. Never the same degree in both. I'll go as far as to say that there can be no one like that. That degree makes all the difference in how he or she is perceived and weighed. As they say, some people are admired and liked and others are feared and viewed at, in awe. I will leave it to you to decide which of the two is more durable and desirable.
incision 13y ago
>“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.” — Malcom S. Forbes Think that over the next time you find yourself in disagreement with someone over differing opinions of a third person. In my experience, more often than not, the above quote will explain everything. Over the years, I've worked with way too many people are delightful to their peers, but a blatant jackasses to the folks who empty their trash.
obviouslygreen 13y ago
The article makes a good point (it's much more nuanced and interesting than its title, on which I was prepared to make a judgment immediately; I'm glad I did not). It's worth looking at in the context of the post it references, though [1]; several very useful and valid responses were made by people citing the practical issues with responding to every inquiry from every applicant. Granted, I don't believe that applies to the author's anecdote, but they do both have a place in the same discussion. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5518881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5518881
Anechoic 13y ago
My common courtesy wake-up call: MIT mechanical engineering students often had to go through the course "secretary" to see their faculty advisers of high-level MechE professors. At the time, the course secretary was a middle-aged women with a desk outside of the MechE administrative offices. When you walked into the office, you spoke with her and she would send you to the appropriate faculty office. Whenever any of my (mostly male) coursemates talked about visiting the office, they always referred to her as "bitch," "cunt," "hag" etc. I never understood this - she had never been anything but nice and respectful to me. After one interaction I witnessed between the secretary and another student, I finally began to understand. Those other students really saw her as just a "secretary" who had no business running interference between students that were clearly her betters. I on the otherhand never went out of my way to ingratiate myself to her, but I did treat her as a human worthy of the same respect as any other faculty member, and I guess she noticed. One year, I signed up for more classes than I intended to take with the intention of auditing the classes, deciding what I wanted to take and then dropping the excess classes before the drop date. I decided pretty quickly to drop one of the classes, and therefore didn't attend any of the lectures or do any of the coursework, but I procrastinated in getting the signature of my adviser to drop the class. Eventually the drop date loomed, and I realized I had only a couple of days to get that signature. I walked into the MechE office, exchanged pleasantries with the secretary and asked to see my adviser. "Oh I'm sorry," she replied "he's out of the country for the next two weeks." She saw from my reaction that something was wrong, and I explained that if I didn't get my adviser's signature on the drop form ASAP, I'd fail the class. She smiled and told me that in situations like that she actually had discretionary power to sign forms on behalf of absent professors. She asked for the form, signed it (in her name) and gave it back to me. I was all set. A year after that, I handed in my thesis and forgot to sign a form. She called me and waited after hours for me to run down to the office to sign the form so I could graduate on time. All because I treated her like a human being. I later told some of my coursemates about that, and they had absolutely no idea she had that kind of power. I like to think that maybe they started treating her a little better after learning what a little courtesy can accomplish. But I certainly learned that "little people" can hold great power that can be wielded in your favor if you just treat them like you want to be treated.
- simonbarker87 13y ago
edw519 13y ago
I do not believe that common courtesy should have anything to do with properly positioning oneself, scoring points, earning a good reputation, or anything else remotely associated with a "zero-sum game". We should be courteous for one reason only: because it's the right thing to do. The older I get, the more I realize how unimportant most details are and how critical some of the big issues are. I don't think anyone said it better that Hillel: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
- zem 13y ago
  another quote i find really thought-provoking, and pretty relevant to the current startup culture: When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people. - Abraham Joshua Heschel
- rishikhullar 13y ago
  "We should be courteous for one reaon only: because it's the right thing to do." Digging deeper it's an ethics quesiton of whether things are right in and of themselves as "duties", or whether things are right due to their consequences, a classic debate between deontologists and consequentialists. Thanks for sharing your point of view!
- qohen 13y ago
  In the specific context of courtesy (or, more specifically, the context of wishing people a good morning), I think this more recent rabbi may have the final word, based on his experience at Auschwitz: The rabbi, now in his eighties, told me in his gentle voice, 'This is the power of a good-morning greeting. A man must always greet his fellow man.' The full story is here -- it's short -- go and learn: http://www.hasidicstories.com/Stories/Of_Our_Times/good_morning.html http://www.hasidicstories.com/Stories/Of_Our_Times/good_morn...
simonbarker87 13y ago
I went to a boarding school for my A-Levels where it was a rule that you had to say hello to everyone you passed in the corridors, it was enforced by those in charge 100% of the time and it felt weird at the beginning but after a couple of months and a weekend spent out in the "real world" it made us realise how nice exchanging a simple "hello" could be. On top of this it was expected that you would be nice to and treat all members of staff, from the cleaners and laundry staff to the principle and commanding officer (military college), with respect. This has left a lasting impression on me and I try to always show courtesy to everyone, when meeting investors and clients I always make a point of thanking the person sorting the drinks, having a quick chat with the receptionist/secretary/cleaner, and generally "taking an interest". I also have no problem apologising if I've messed up or caused someone extra hassle. I'm not sure how much it helps in the grand scheme of things but it sure makes the day more enjoyable and pleseant.
- tomjen3 13y ago
  In (elementry) school I had the habit of saying good morning when I showed up - pretty basic and I didn't think anybody particularily cared, until my mom told me that the teacher had been told by one of the parents how much that simple good morning meant for their child. So yeah, simple curtesy matters -- that said I don't think I would be that happy if every stranger were saying hello to me on the street; it would quickly become overwelling.
ErrantX 13y ago
It depresses me how negative out society can sometimes be, and lack of common courtesy is one of the biggest culprits. I was always brought up to be polite, even to people who didn't deserve it - and especially to people who you didn't know well enough to form an opinion. The number of people who reject this approach and just act like everyone else is crap is sad. My experience of this was, following graduation from university, going to the job centre. I was looking for a mundane job for a year to earn some travelling money. My "advisor" treated me like an idiot, and a failure - constantly asking why I was "incapable of finding a graduate job". The idea that I didn't actually want a "career" quite then seemed beyond her. What a weird situation; I was a pretty smart guy, with a very strong engineering degree, being treated like an idiot by someone with very weak academic credentials. I didn't care what she was qualified in (she made a point of having the certificate on her wall, I think it was a foundation course in arts) so long as she was competent at her job; but ''by her own value system'' I was several steps above her on the ladder, even jobless. She made a point of being a jerk about my unusual choice, rather than simple getting over her disdain and helping me out! In the end I walked out on the principle of it. Being treated like crap is demoralising. That was an important life lesson, and ever since I've made extra effort to treat people as human beings.
chrisbennet 13y ago
I can sympathize with the poster for calling out this sort of rudeness but I'm also torn. Rude behavior is a powerful "tell" or signal that gives you insight into how that party may behavior in the future. As he notes, he's going to avoid them in the future. Now suppose they "get the message" that this behavior makes them look bad and institute some sort of "fake" courtesy; that signal will be lost. Personally, I'd rather not tell the jerks of the world that they have a sign on their back that says "I'm Jerk".

70 points by rishikhullar 13y ago

I know exactly what you mean, I'm in the middle of the application process right now. When companies have a poor level of communication with me as a candidate, I definitely rethink my interest in them.

alexholehouse 13y ago

An acquaintance recently made a facebook update describing how they belittled and berated a coffee shop employee for making a (fairly bad, to be fair) mistake regarding change on a $20. I seriously considered leaving my office and going to the coffee shop to apologize for this person's behavior, and I personally am finished with this individual in both a social and professional context. There is pretty much nothing I find more offensive than rudeness when people make a mistake.

joonix 13y ago
What it comes down to is empathy. Empathetic people are able to put themselves in the shoes of others and understand their circumstances and use logic to rationalize their own emotions. In the long run, this type of person is better to work with. That's why they say look at how someone treats a waiter. An empathetic person understands the waiter made a mistake because they are overloaded with tables or their mind is frazzled because they're working their second job of the day with a sick kid at home. The person who lacks empathy will only suspect pure incompetence or malice as the cause and have an outburst or berate the terrible service.
kogus 13y ago
An important aspect here is the fact that the coffee shop employee is powerless in this situation - they could lose their job if they reply with equal rudeness. How we interact with those who have less power in a situation is very revealing of our character. I can't stand it when a person is only polite to people who have some kind of leverage over them.

snowwrestler 13y ago

I'll share two insights I've learned over time about courtesy. 1) Being courteous, over the long term, gives you power. There have been a number of initiatives I've been able to get done at work, that others could not, simply because colleagues give me a greater benefit of the doubt. They do so because I have always treated them very well, even when we disagree. 2) To be truly courteous, you must be very organized. If you're unorganized, it's easy to lose track of things--and it will be impossible to keep track of the many niceties of small interactions. But these are what add up, over time, to a great reputation. Number 2 is an insight I have learned (and continue to learn) the hard way.

rishikhullar 13y ago
Thanks for these insights. I couldn't agree more.
itsybitsycoder 13y ago
Do you have any recommendations for how to stay organized enough that you can keep track of these things?
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  I don't--it's something I struggle with, to be honest, which is probably why its value has become so apparent to me.
- simonbarker87 13y ago
  I'm not sure if this is help or stating the obvious but I've found that consciously making the effort to remember stuff and record it in my mind goes a long way to staying organised on this front. I found the best way to start was with people's names, when someone says "Hi, I'm X" I try to response with "Hi X, it's good to meet you, I'm Simon". Just this simple repetition of their name goes a long way to committing it to memory, if you can say it a couple more times in the conversation you won't forget it again.
ameister14 13y ago
I'd add that you should always respond as quickly as possible. If when you receive something you immediately write a thank-you, for example, it always gets done. If you wait you can more easily lose track.

davidroberts 13y ago

From the very moment they could communicate, I worked hard to teach my children common courtesy. It was the best gift I could give them. They didn't go to fancy schools, they never took "enrichment" classes, but they know how to be nice to people and make friends. I think it paid off, because they are all doing pretty well. Courtesy makes you likable and smooths human relationships in everything you do. It gives you a huge edge. I don't understand why people don't do it. Maybe they grew up in an environment where courtesy is taken as weakness. Or maybe they are so convinced of their own merit that they feel there is no need to be nice to the "little people." Either way, they are seriously handicapping their future happiness. Courtesy offers so much gain for so little effort. From smiling and holding the door open for someone at the supermarket to giving a considerate reply to someone who went to the trouble to come in for an interview, courtesy makes life better for everyone. The return smile and sincere thank you from the person at the supermarket brightens your whole day. The rejected candidate who received your thoughtful message might be the exact fit for a later job. Similar to the quote in the original article, I believe you can learn a lot about a person by how they treat the hired help, whether it be at work or in a restaurant or hotel. If someone has no power of retribution, even if you are a selfish jerk, and you still treat them kindly, it's a pretty good sign you aren't a selfish jerk. On the other hand, if you are considering a future spouse or employer, and they treat servers and underlings like trash, someday they will treat you like trash too. Courtesy is karma. You give to others, it always comes back to you.

hjay 13y ago
I grew up with a mother who heavily emphasized respect and courtesy. Thank you for doing the same with your children, it often feels like this world is very lacking nowadays.
Mz 13y ago
I wish I could agree with you whole-heartedly but I cannot. I place a high value on treating others with respect, helping without expecting anything in return, etc. For some things, yes, I see clear evidence of "good karma" coming back to me. For other things, I feel like my life is a case of "no good deed goes unpunished." I am pretty angry and bitter about it. I feel like I must be doing something wrong somewhere, like I am stupidly casting pearls before swine or something. I can't figure out why I keep getting used and walked on. I can't figure out how to get taken seriously and turn all this supposed good karma to financial benefit in a business way. I strongly suspect part of it is that I am female and a lot of people seem to see me as motherly and seem to think "motherly" means I should cut my own throat for their benefit. At this point, articles of this sort just kind of piss me off. If going around being nice and helpful really paid, I should be a rich woman by now. But somehow that just does not happen for me. I wonder if women need some opposite message, if this message benefits those who already know all about extracting value from others. I don't know the answer. I just know that reading stuff like this feels like salt in very raw wounds for me.

hjay 13y ago

This really hits home. I had a few emails back and forth with the co-founder/CTO of a fairly successful startup that tried to recruit me back in January. We had a short Skype session, he basically "strung me along", vaguely brought up a homework assignment, and never got back. Like the author of this post, I emailed him back and checked for an update, but never got a response. And to think I actually referred people to use their service before. Since this incident, I have lost a ton of respect for this person specifically. Not because we were not a good fit for each other, but because of the 360 degree change in attitude once he had no use for you. A bit sad to say this person is probably on HN too. In contrast, his email responses while trying to recruit me originally were always within 24 hours, usually between 5~25 minutes. Fairly lengthy emails too. It's not that difficult to let someone know if you don't think you (and I) are not the best fit for each other. Show some respect.

spitx 13y ago

Courtesy without consequence, clout or wherewithal is a dud. Let me unpack that a bit: People walk all over courteous people especially when they wield no social clout or when the person is of little consequence, in general. Courtesy is too often taken -- in North American circles these days -- to be a dose of deference paid in advance for a future (and usually much larger) reciprocal dose of consideration or favor of some kind. In short, unless you wield considerable worth ( of some kind ) no one's going to rule in your favor -- and against a much more formidable party -- owing to your courteousness. It's unfortunate.

tomjen3 13y ago
How is me saying good morning going to mean that everybody will run over me? Don't mistake curtesey from not standing up for your rights or agreeing to things you don't actually agreed with -- a "no, sorry I am not going to be able to come in on the weekend" is curtious, yet also standing up for your self -- "I don't work weekends" accomplish the same, but is less curtius.
- spitx 13y ago
  I think some of the confusion in this whole thread would go away if people submitted their takes on where ( for them ) courtesy ends and firmness or assertiveness or strictness in demeanor towards others begins. Where exactly are they willing to end their train of courteous acts and begin being very stiff in their gives and takes with society. We tend to hold important / formidable / consequential people higher in regard than nice / courteous / generous people. It is very very rare that one finds those both diametrical qualities in the same person. A person is either a degree more assertive than he or she is courteous. Or alternately a degree less assertive. Never the same degree in both. I'll go as far as to say that there can be no one like that. That degree makes all the difference in how he or she is perceived and weighed. As they say, some people are admired and liked and others are feared and viewed at, in awe. I will leave it to you to decide which of the two is more durable and desirable.

incision 13y ago

>“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.” — Malcom S. Forbes Think that over the next time you find yourself in disagreement with someone over differing opinions of a third person. In my experience, more often than not, the above quote will explain everything. Over the years, I've worked with way too many people are delightful to their peers, but a blatant jackasses to the folks who empty their trash.

obviouslygreen 13y ago

The article makes a good point (it's much more nuanced and interesting than its title, on which I was prepared to make a judgment immediately; I'm glad I did not). It's worth looking at in the context of the post it references, though [1]; several very useful and valid responses were made by people citing the practical issues with responding to every inquiry from every applicant. Granted, I don't believe that applies to the author's anecdote, but they do both have a place in the same discussion. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5518881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5518881

Anechoic 13y ago

My common courtesy wake-up call: MIT mechanical engineering students often had to go through the course "secretary" to see their faculty advisers of high-level MechE professors. At the time, the course secretary was a middle-aged women with a desk outside of the MechE administrative offices. When you walked into the office, you spoke with her and she would send you to the appropriate faculty office. Whenever any of my (mostly male) coursemates talked about visiting the office, they always referred to her as "bitch," "cunt," "hag" etc. I never understood this - she had never been anything but nice and respectful to me. After one interaction I witnessed between the secretary and another student, I finally began to understand. Those other students really saw her as just a "secretary" who had no business running interference between students that were clearly her betters. I on the otherhand never went out of my way to ingratiate myself to her, but I did treat her as a human worthy of the same respect as any other faculty member, and I guess she noticed. One year, I signed up for more classes than I intended to take with the intention of auditing the classes, deciding what I wanted to take and then dropping the excess classes before the drop date. I decided pretty quickly to drop one of the classes, and therefore didn't attend any of the lectures or do any of the coursework, but I procrastinated in getting the signature of my adviser to drop the class. Eventually the drop date loomed, and I realized I had only a couple of days to get that signature. I walked into the MechE office, exchanged pleasantries with the secretary and asked to see my adviser. "Oh I'm sorry," she replied "he's out of the country for the next two weeks." She saw from my reaction that something was wrong, and I explained that if I didn't get my adviser's signature on the drop form ASAP, I'd fail the class. She smiled and told me that in situations like that she actually had discretionary power to sign forms on behalf of absent professors. She asked for the form, signed it (in her name) and gave it back to me. I was all set. A year after that, I handed in my thesis and forgot to sign a form. She called me and waited after hours for me to run down to the office to sign the form so I could graduate on time. All because I treated her like a human being. I later told some of my coursemates about that, and they had absolutely no idea she had that kind of power. I like to think that maybe they started treating her a little better after learning what a little courtesy can accomplish. But I certainly learned that "little people" can hold great power that can be wielded in your favor if you just treat them like you want to be treated.

simonbarker87 13y ago

edw519 13y ago

I do not believe that common courtesy should have anything to do with properly positioning oneself, scoring points, earning a good reputation, or anything else remotely associated with a "zero-sum game". We should be courteous for one reason only: because it's the right thing to do. The older I get, the more I realize how unimportant most details are and how critical some of the big issues are. I don't think anyone said it better that Hillel: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

zem 13y ago
another quote i find really thought-provoking, and pretty relevant to the current startup culture: When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people. - Abraham Joshua Heschel
rishikhullar 13y ago
"We should be courteous for one reaon only: because it's the right thing to do." Digging deeper it's an ethics quesiton of whether things are right in and of themselves as "duties", or whether things are right due to their consequences, a classic debate between deontologists and consequentialists. Thanks for sharing your point of view!
qohen 13y ago
In the specific context of courtesy (or, more specifically, the context of wishing people a good morning), I think this more recent rabbi may have the final word, based on his experience at Auschwitz: The rabbi, now in his eighties, told me in his gentle voice, 'This is the power of a good-morning greeting. A man must always greet his fellow man.' The full story is here -- it's short -- go and learn: http://www.hasidicstories.com/Stories/Of_Our_Times/good_morning.html http://www.hasidicstories.com/Stories/Of_Our_Times/good_morn...

simonbarker87 13y ago

I went to a boarding school for my A-Levels where it was a rule that you had to say hello to everyone you passed in the corridors, it was enforced by those in charge 100% of the time and it felt weird at the beginning but after a couple of months and a weekend spent out in the "real world" it made us realise how nice exchanging a simple "hello" could be. On top of this it was expected that you would be nice to and treat all members of staff, from the cleaners and laundry staff to the principle and commanding officer (military college), with respect. This has left a lasting impression on me and I try to always show courtesy to everyone, when meeting investors and clients I always make a point of thanking the person sorting the drinks, having a quick chat with the receptionist/secretary/cleaner, and generally "taking an interest". I also have no problem apologising if I've messed up or caused someone extra hassle. I'm not sure how much it helps in the grand scheme of things but it sure makes the day more enjoyable and pleseant.

tomjen3 13y ago
In (elementry) school I had the habit of saying good morning when I showed up - pretty basic and I didn't think anybody particularily cared, until my mom told me that the teacher had been told by one of the parents how much that simple good morning meant for their child. So yeah, simple curtesy matters -- that said I don't think I would be that happy if every stranger were saying hello to me on the street; it would quickly become overwelling.

ErrantX 13y ago

It depresses me how negative out society can sometimes be, and lack of common courtesy is one of the biggest culprits. I was always brought up to be polite, even to people who didn't deserve it - and especially to people who you didn't know well enough to form an opinion. The number of people who reject this approach and just act like everyone else is crap is sad. My experience of this was, following graduation from university, going to the job centre. I was looking for a mundane job for a year to earn some travelling money. My "advisor" treated me like an idiot, and a failure - constantly asking why I was "incapable of finding a graduate job". The idea that I didn't actually want a "career" quite then seemed beyond her. What a weird situation; I was a pretty smart guy, with a very strong engineering degree, being treated like an idiot by someone with very weak academic credentials. I didn't care what she was qualified in (she made a point of having the certificate on her wall, I think it was a foundation course in arts) so long as she was competent at her job; but ''by her own value system'' I was several steps above her on the ladder, even jobless. She made a point of being a jerk about my unusual choice, rather than simple getting over her disdain and helping me out! In the end I walked out on the principle of it. Being treated like crap is demoralising. That was an important life lesson, and ever since I've made extra effort to treat people as human beings.

chrisbennet 13y ago

I can sympathize with the poster for calling out this sort of rudeness but I'm also torn. Rude behavior is a powerful "tell" or signal that gives you insight into how that party may behavior in the future. As he notes, he's going to avoid them in the future. Now suppose they "get the message" that this behavior makes them look bad and institute some sort of "fake" courtesy; that signal will be lost. Personally, I'd rather not tell the jerks of the world that they have a sign on their back that says "I'm Jerk".