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I remember reading their blog post about their "Holy Grail" framework, but I couldn't really understand what made it so cool. Can someone explain to a noob like

by LAMike 14y ago

I remember reading their blog post about their "Holy Grail" framework, but I couldn't really understand what made it so cool. Can someone explain to a noob like me why someone would consider Rendr the Holy Grail of frameworks?

adamnemecek 14y ago
IIRC, it bridges single page web apps and standard websites. I.e. on the initial request, the page is rendered server-side, similarly as it would say with Rails and will work even if the client has JS disabled. If the client has JS enabled, it will work as a SPA.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  More important than the JS-disabled case is the speed of the first page. Given my experience with the very similar highbrow, I expect that rendr can return a fully functional page in 10-20 ms. In a typical client-side JS framework, the first page takes 300-3000 ms to render. Subsequent pages are lightning quick, but in many cases it's the first page that's the important one.
  - napoleond 14y ago
    These types of frameworks also offer better SEO, because despite popular claims about Google crawlers rendering Javascript, "single page apps/blogs/whatever" get a lot less Google-juice than sites rendered on the server.
tengkahwee 14y ago
MVC is being used for web development. The M part, model, handles the rules for inputs. This would trigger validation errors. In a typical stack, we code the server-side model in, say, Ruby on Rails, and duplicate the same model in client-side model in JavaScript so it can detect things like minimum password lengths without sending data back to the server. The holy grail is to have both server-side and client-side in JavaScript and also sharing the models as well, with that we reduce amount of things we have to code.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  This approach doesn't help. With highbrow and presumably rendr, you still have 'client side' & 'server side' components to your project. The 'server side' is typically just a JSON REST API. In our case, it uses mongoose to talk to mongodb. The 'client side' talks to the API and renders HTML; on first load it actually runs on the server. The client side uses Backbone.js models. So you still need both backbone & mongoose/whatever validations if you want them both on the client & server side. In practice, the system is fast enough that server side validations may be sufficient.

by LAMike 14y ago

adamnemecek 14y ago

IIRC, it bridges single page web apps and standard websites. I.e. on the initial request, the page is rendered server-side, similarly as it would say with Rails and will work even if the client has JS disabled. If the client has JS enabled, it will work as a SPA.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
More important than the JS-disabled case is the speed of the first page. Given my experience with the very similar highbrow, I expect that rendr can return a fully functional page in 10-20 ms. In a typical client-side JS framework, the first page takes 300-3000 ms to render. Subsequent pages are lightning quick, but in many cases it's the first page that's the important one.
- napoleond 14y ago
  These types of frameworks also offer better SEO, because despite popular claims about Google crawlers rendering Javascript, "single page apps/blogs/whatever" get a lot less Google-juice than sites rendered on the server.

tengkahwee 14y ago

MVC is being used for web development. The M part, model, handles the rules for inputs. This would trigger validation errors. In a typical stack, we code the server-side model in, say, Ruby on Rails, and duplicate the same model in client-side model in JavaScript so it can detect things like minimum password lengths without sending data back to the server. The holy grail is to have both server-side and client-side in JavaScript and also sharing the models as well, with that we reduce amount of things we have to code.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
This approach doesn't help. With highbrow and presumably rendr, you still have 'client side' & 'server side' components to your project. The 'server side' is typically just a JSON REST API. In our case, it uses mongoose to talk to mongodb. The 'client side' talks to the API and renders HTML; on first load it actually runs on the server. The client side uses Backbone.js models. So you still need both backbone & mongoose/whatever validations if you want them both on the client & server side. In practice, the system is fast enough that server side validations may be sufficient.