4 ms·

I'm astonished by some of the reactions here. Giving money to the people who need it, means that the power to use that resource is directly in the hands of the

by tow21 14y ago

I'm astonished by some of the reactions here. Giving money to the people who need it, means that the power to use that resource is directly in the hands of the people who have the most interest in using it well. Frankly, their incentives are much more aligned with their long-term wellbeing, than are the incentives of a faceless charity committee in a Washington office somewhere. Plus, you don't have to pay for the endless decision-making - and the unavoidable inefficiencies in decision-making far removed from the action. It's one of the reasons free markets win out over statist command economies - making much better use of information local to the decision.

krzyk 14y ago
But doesn't giving away money make the poor less interested in finding a job? Sooner or later they will get addicted to the free money.
- colmvp 14y ago
  How does a poor person find a job when they don't have the money for basic necessities that include resources that help find and acquire a job?
  - sageikosa 14y ago
    Charity, not welfare. When it's welfare, you have one monopolistic "service" provider, which ends up getting managed by bureaucratic means (to ensure low graft and wastage, leading paradoxically to a specific and growing amount of wastage as the bureaucracy expands, but that's a different point). With charity, you have multiple providers, and they compete for funding from contributors so are incented to be as maximally efficient as the charitable services market allows. And quite frankly, I'd rather live in a charitable society than a welfare society.
- salvadors 14y ago
  I'm pretty sure that the context here isn't about providing people with a constant income, but simply taking your comments at face value: Why would that be so bad? Why is it essential for everyone to have a job?
wfunction 14y ago
The problem is that it's a lot easier to misuse/abuse money than abuse, say, water or food. For example, a nonnegligible number of poor people end up using the little money they make on drinking or gambling as soon as they possibly can, while staying just as poor as before afterward. You could say it's OK if it's money they earned themselves, but I think it makes sense for everyone to think twice about letting charities donate money directly when those in need end up misusing/abusing it. Giving food/water/other necessities instead of money prevents this, while at the same time giving poor people a chance to worry about finding a job, etc. without having to constantly worry about where to find water, etc.
- minikites 14y ago
  >The data fights conventional wisdom: Money spent on alcohol and cigarettes either decreases, stays constant or increases in the same proportion as total other expenses (approximately 2% to 3%). The article contradicts your assumption.
  - pc86 14y ago
    The article is also referring to the poor in third world countries living on less per day than either of us would spend on a pack - or a stick - of gum. Raise someone's income from $237 a year to $500 a year and I'm not surprised there isn't a marked increase in "sin" consumption, because they're still living on peanuts even by those standards.. Raising someone's income from $15,000 to $20,000 is not the same thing and it's a much bigger assumption.
    - minikites 14y ago
      That's true, but I think it's just as dangerous of an assumption to assume that poorer people would waste money given to them. It portrays poorer people as seperate from society and it makes it easier to mistreat them. When Florida proposed drug testing welfare recipients, it was noted that welfare recipients actually had a lower rate of drug use than the general public. Part of the rhetoric used to deny social services to people feeds into the easy assumption that poor people are not like us and that they are poor because they deserve it.
DanBC 14y ago
Generally, it's better to give women the money than to give men the money. (I'm happy for polite discussion about this - especially if there's better research showing that I'm wrong) But sometimes economies of scale and lack of education and other things come into play. For example, a charity can buy very many mosquito nets and distribute them for cheap, while individuals may not want to buy a net because they don't know just how important those nets are. (See also claims of people using mosquito nets other things (and those claims may not be true (http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1001019)) http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal...) There are also fears about money being diverted through corrupt officials, or being stolen by bandits.
mozboz 14y ago
> is directly in the hands of the people who have the most interest in using it well That has no relation to whether or not they know how to use it well. Improving someone's well being involves improving their well being through hands-on, interactive problem solving. Throwing a fist full of dollar bills at someone does not directly improve their well being. If you have, by some measure, 'low well being', there is a reason for that that is likely to be outside your direct control, otherwise you would change it. If it is inside your control, you need help to discover how - application of cash is useless without direction. If it is outside your control the help needs to be applied at a higher level, community, town, borough.. country. It is demonstrably not the case that cash solves problems unless it is applied in meaningful, sustainable ways, which are not known or understood by many people in difficult situations, unless you are talking about people who are about to starve to death and who will buy food.

by tow21 14y ago

krzyk 14y ago

But doesn't giving away money make the poor less interested in finding a job? Sooner or later they will get addicted to the free money.

colmvp 14y ago
How does a poor person find a job when they don't have the money for basic necessities that include resources that help find and acquire a job?
- sageikosa 14y ago
  Charity, not welfare. When it's welfare, you have one monopolistic "service" provider, which ends up getting managed by bureaucratic means (to ensure low graft and wastage, leading paradoxically to a specific and growing amount of wastage as the bureaucracy expands, but that's a different point). With charity, you have multiple providers, and they compete for funding from contributors so are incented to be as maximally efficient as the charitable services market allows. And quite frankly, I'd rather live in a charitable society than a welfare society.
salvadors 14y ago
I'm pretty sure that the context here isn't about providing people with a constant income, but simply taking your comments at face value: Why would that be so bad? Why is it essential for everyone to have a job?

wfunction 14y ago

The problem is that it's a lot easier to misuse/abuse money than abuse, say, water or food. For example, a nonnegligible number of poor people end up using the little money they make on drinking or gambling as soon as they possibly can, while staying just as poor as before afterward. You could say it's OK if it's money they earned themselves, but I think it makes sense for everyone to think twice about letting charities donate money directly when those in need end up misusing/abusing it. Giving food/water/other necessities instead of money prevents this, while at the same time giving poor people a chance to worry about finding a job, etc. without having to constantly worry about where to find water, etc.

minikites 14y ago
>The data fights conventional wisdom: Money spent on alcohol and cigarettes either decreases, stays constant or increases in the same proportion as total other expenses (approximately 2% to 3%). The article contradicts your assumption.
- pc86 14y ago
  The article is also referring to the poor in third world countries living on less per day than either of us would spend on a pack - or a stick - of gum. Raise someone's income from $237 a year to $500 a year and I'm not surprised there isn't a marked increase in "sin" consumption, because they're still living on peanuts even by those standards.. Raising someone's income from $15,000 to $20,000 is not the same thing and it's a much bigger assumption.
  - minikites 14y ago
    That's true, but I think it's just as dangerous of an assumption to assume that poorer people would waste money given to them. It portrays poorer people as seperate from society and it makes it easier to mistreat them. When Florida proposed drug testing welfare recipients, it was noted that welfare recipients actually had a lower rate of drug use than the general public. Part of the rhetoric used to deny social services to people feeds into the easy assumption that poor people are not like us and that they are poor because they deserve it.

DanBC 14y ago

Generally, it's better to give women the money than to give men the money. (I'm happy for polite discussion about this - especially if there's better research showing that I'm wrong) But sometimes economies of scale and lack of education and other things come into play. For example, a charity can buy very many mosquito nets and distribute them for cheap, while individuals may not want to buy a net because they don't know just how important those nets are. (See also claims of people using mosquito nets other things (and those claims may not be true (http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1001019)) http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal...) There are also fears about money being diverted through corrupt officials, or being stolen by bandits.

mozboz 14y ago

> is directly in the hands of the people who have the most interest in using it well That has no relation to whether or not they know how to use it well. Improving someone's well being involves improving their well being through hands-on, interactive problem solving. Throwing a fist full of dollar bills at someone does not directly improve their well being. If you have, by some measure, 'low well being', there is a reason for that that is likely to be outside your direct control, otherwise you would change it. If it is inside your control, you need help to discover how - application of cash is useless without direction. If it is outside your control the help needs to be applied at a higher level, community, town, borough.. country. It is demonstrably not the case that cash solves problems unless it is applied in meaningful, sustainable ways, which are not known or understood by many people in difficult situations, unless you are talking about people who are about to starve to death and who will buy food.