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What Being a Handyman Has Taught Me About Male Insecurity

186 points by wallflower 14y ago

simonsarris 14y ago
Is it me or are there an extremely large number of front-page stories from The Atlantic today? There are three on the frontpage right now, with 2 more in the next three pages (all of which frontpaged at least for a moment).
- kamkazemoose 14y ago
  I definitely noticed that as well. It could be a self-propagating cycle? Maybe people see an article from The Atlantic, then while they're there they find another article and post that? The more people post articles from The Atlantic, the more people who go and read other articles there and go on to post them here. And personally, I think it is a pretty good publication. They have some interesting stories and they are generally well written.
- mattdeboard 14y ago
  The Atlantic was banned from reddit for spamming last year. Wouldn't surprise me if they were doing the same BS here.
  - shardling 14y ago
    Well, the submitter of this article has a 5 year old account. They frequently submit news articles from a variety of sources, and are also an active commenter. (Though, they do seem to like posting quotes.) The other two atlantic articles on the front page are from 2-3 year old accounts that likewise post a lot of pieces from various newspapers. You're welcome to dig through their posting history for a conspiracy, but it's not jumping out at me.
    - Avshalom 14y ago
      Doesn't necessarily have to be the poster, the upvoters are the ones that get it on the front page.
      - shardling 14y ago
        Hmm, you know, my comment defending the Atlantic posters actually does have a weird amount of upvotes. (Not a joke -- it's at +37 right now, which seems high given its placement and late timing in the thread.)
    - rrreese 14y ago
      I like the fact that you investigated this before posting rather then being "ra ra conspiracy" like the other posters.
      - mattdeboard 14y ago
        It's not a conspiracy, it's a well-known and common business practice for content companies.
        shardling 14y ago
        I, at least, meant conspiracy in the more literal sense: people coordinating in secret.
    - mattdeboard 14y ago
      Doesn't have to be new accounts. "Pay to post" is a regular occurrence and a lucrative side business for people on high-traffic, user-curated content sites like Reddit and Digg.
- epa 14y ago
  Seems suspect. Not sure why this type of content is being posted on hacker news. It's a poorly written article not having to do with this site's prerogative..
- booruguru 14y ago
  Maybe its because The Atlantic consistently produces high quality content that deserves to be on the HN front page.
martinced 14y ago
Can we please stop all the pseudo-psychology male / female / testosterone / hymen stuff on HN and concentrate on friggin' hacker news and startup news? (also what's up with all the theatlantic.com upvotes on non-HN worthy stories, do we have sock muppets in the house?)
dizzystar 14y ago
I was a carpenter for the better part of my 20s. Definitely many stories like this that came up. The one that bothered me the most was how many times they looked at me silly for making a "bad" cut, when of course, I was making said cut because the area wasn't square. I had one guy get angry at me for making a frame that was visibly crooked, so I told him he should probably make it square and hang it up himself. When he put the piece up and saw it didn't fit flush, he apologized and said I was right after all. I then told him that was the last piece of wood. Sometimes the respect is hard-earned. I just chalked it up to the amount of times they got screwed over by people of lower ability, so in general, there was a lot of defensiveness. The male-role thing was apparent, but after earning respect and trust, they pretty much always got out of my way. I've had, quite often, jobs where I was more or less helping the home owner build and those were the most enjoyable and memorable moments. Contrary to what this story suggests, it was usually the rich folk who got on their hands and knees beside me and pounded nails. I think it was about perspective. The rich folk seemed more willing to learn it, try it, and logic out the problem. The middle class folk didn't seem to willing to learn or want to get their hands dirty, so usually they weren't present and were more prone to complaining. Construction is super easy if you can think about the problem from multiple perspectives. I find it surprising how few people have the capacity to view the world in this way.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  The rich folk seemed more willing to learn it, try it, and logic out the problem. The middle class folk ... usually weren't present and were more prone to complaining. Or, the middle class folks didn't have time to hang around, while rich folk don't always work 9-5.
  - DuskStar 14y ago
    Or that the rich folk might have gotten that way through being "more willing to learn it, try it, and logic out the problem."
    - InclinedPlane 14y ago
pyre 14y ago
Personally, the tension that I have in dealing with contractors is not wanting to be taken advantage of. Much in the same way that mechanics and used car salesmen are 'notorious' for taking advantage of people.
- ars 14y ago
  That's because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry and the cure is more information. Before undertaking any major project study it intensively, and you'll feel much better about it. If you can't do the study yourself then find a trusted, disinterested, 3rd party to do it for you. (Of course that entails some study itself...)
  - 7952 14y ago
    I just built a bike from parts after several days research. Most components are incompatible which makes it a minefield. The internet makes it seem like their is unlimited choice when in fact there are 1000 incompatible choices, and only one that works and is in your price range. It is absolutely worth it as I now have a bike I can repair myself.
- dizzystar 14y ago
  I've seen this played out so many times, it is quite sickening. I generally found that union folk can't pound themselves out of a paper bag. At the risk of sounding inflammatory, many home owners want everything cheap as humanly possible, so they find people willing to do it for below minimum wage (immigrants) and buy the cheapest, warped material they can find at Home Depot. Sometimes spending a little extra money for expertise is worth the sacrifice. You are, after all, paying for a service that affects the most important piece of property you own, and you may have to live with a regret for 30 or more years. Now days, you can get references, see photos of prior work, and of course someone with high quality tools (not Craftsman) and a truck is likely to be a better choice. Someone that is willing to say "no" to you is also a good sign.
  - epoxyhockey 14y ago
InclinedPlane 14y ago
I took AP classes in college, and I work in the software industry, but I still know how to work with my hands and I'm very happy to have that knowledge. It's not that hard, if you feel bad about not knowing anything, go learn, go take a class or two, go read a book or two, go ask a friend, or use the internet, there are a million excellent resources out there. Pick a simple project and do it, then do another project. Stocking a basic toolbox is extraordinarily inexpensive, there's really no reason not to have one. I think the reason so many people aren't as handy as they used to be has to do more with culture than with anything else, here's an excellent TED talk from Mike Rowe (from Dirty Jobs) on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRVdiHu1VCc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRVdiHu1VCc
- dpeck 14y ago
  " Stocking a basic toolbox is extraordinarily inexpensive, there's really no reason not to have one." This is great advice, anyone reading who doesn't have at least the basics please get them. I have a few friends who I help out on occasion and it is incredibly frustrating to not have the basic tools available. Decent screwdriver set Socket set Hammer Electrical Pliers Multimeter Pliers Adjustable Wrench Just these basic tools can get you a long way to solving problems. I hated it at the time, but I spent nearly every weekend of my 8th and 9th grade years remodeling our house with my dad. Being able to understand the job that needs to be done, even if you'd do a poor job doing it yourself, is invaluable.
  - michaelbuddy 14y ago
    Pfft. A basic toolbox doesn't even get you halfway there. Here's why. Because the basic tools are not the keys to the kingdom. The way it works is this. You NEED to familiarize yourself with all the little connectors, fasteners, bolts screws and materials. Hundreds or thousands of them. Got a nice drill? Great. Guess what you better know what masonry bit is, and that you need to use a smaller bit than what you think, cause you're gonna over drill. Have a few plumber wrenches? Cool, too bad you never learned what rubber washers are essential in your bathtub faucet. And your '50s faucet isn't exactly the ones featured on the how-to PDFs online. Want to hang a shelf? you have NO idea how many types of hanging fasteners there are. From a single penny nail to a $2.50 self-driving metal compression anchor. Then all the reassurance in the world from the guy at the hardware store doesn't mean anything when you get home because your house will be different. When things start crumbling, (and they will) then you went from 1 task to 4. Big mess, wife gets pissed. You want to die. How do you find studs? Too bad nearly EVERY single stud finder is a mediocre piece of shit. Most people don't even know that to cut a straight line on plywood, you can clamp a long level and use it as a fence. A circular saw is worthless without a good straight edge fence. Need to do some wall patching? Guess what. The joint compound you see at the store. That's the gimmicky crap that vendors pay for premium end cap space. Get it home and it's shit. The real handymen laugh because they know the real stuff is the powder and its in 50 lb bags, costs 1/20 of what you paid and is found back in the dusty dark corner. The handyman business is full of tricks the pros have had time to develop and then taken to their graves. My battery was dead on my motorcycle. The manual that came with it had NO information on what to do. My cycle is a couple years old, but not old enough to have a 3rd party repair manual. Had I hooked up the car charger, I'd have ruined it. I asked the sales guy at the shop... How am I supposed to know this stuff if it's not in the manual. He said, 'well people just know it from working with and owning motorcycles.' For fuck sakes man. The world of home improvement shows is riddled with holes in the processes. Sure you see a nice polished tutorial that completely glazes over the clean up process or the variance in materials. I've refinished wood floors in 3 different houses. I've yet to find a proper tutorial on the process that comes close to what I've had to do. They are all missing tons of important detail on how to do the job right. and guess what, google has been completely gamed with bad SEO sites. So the first million results for the home improvement problem you're facing. Guaranteed to be advertising masquerading as help. Here's my absolute favorite one though. The solvents and other chemicals you buy. There are NO proper methods of disposal for the average person. So then you're stuck with 25 cans of flammable poisonous liquids in your garage for the better part of a decade. You can only hope that you happen to know when the next chemical disposal event happens at your nearby church or community center. Otherwise, you're fucked if you want to legally and safely get rid of the stuff. So yeah being a weekend handyman. Fun.
ameister14 14y ago
Until I went to college I didn't realize not everyone learned wood and metalworking in school. Industrial Arts, it was called. We learned to make jewelry, forge with iron, etc. Then in high school I did woodworking instead, and made furniture, which most of us sold as a side job. I just thought that was totally normal. I'm still not sure why it isn't.
- vacri 14y ago
  I think exactly the same thing of 'critical thinking'.
- trhtrsh 14y ago
  Budget cuts. You can't write a standardized test for woodworking, so schools stopped teaching it.
  - r00fus 14y ago
    Schools were forced to stop teaching anything "arts", effectively, by NCLB (which is basically designed to destroy public schooling and give that to private industry). Many schools would love to get more arts back in their curriculum, but their funding goes away if they don't focus on those damn tests to the exclusion of all else.
    - SilasX 14y ago
      You mean, NCLB revealed how most schools were failing to teach the most basic things needed for success in the real world, which they somehow were able to convey to the "carpenter-track" students just decades ago? Seriously, I hear a lot of kvetching about schools burdened by having to "teach to the test". I never very little about which specific parts of the test are unfair or about things students shouldn't be expected to know.
      - r00fus 14y ago
        Do you know any teachers or have you spent time recently in a classroom? Test preparation takes a huge amount of the bandwidth. Student assignment to classes is apportioned so there is a good "balance" to testing averages. To dismiss NCLB as anything but an attempt to sabotage the entire public school system is nieve.
lostlogin 14y ago
I think part of it has to relate to what you enjoy doing. I enjoy few things more than reaching the time of day when work clothes can come off, dirty old shirt goes on, lithium ion tool drill comes out and the circular saw is plugged in. It's the best relaxation I have found, and unlike my real job, I can actually achieve something without other screwing it up and the results are measurable. Don't ask about the accidents, stitches and cost/time blowouts.
jeffdavis 14y ago
"This attitude is certainly built on classism and general obliviousness as much as gender issues...whereas with rich men, haggling seems to be a necessary ritual." The author makes it sound like negotiating over an estimate is a character flaw. Stereotypically, men are more likely to negotiate over almost anything. At least that comes up during discussions of pay inequality; I'm not really sure what the facts are. Also, negotiating is probably a more common, habitual practice among "rich" people (by which I assume he means businessmen, lawyers, etc.). I don't see any evidence that it comes from some kind of classism; rather, it's a useful and important skill in their job. People who really don't know anything about handywork are likely to use what they do know to attempt to get quality work at a fair price.
rayiner 14y ago
> Although I've worked for plenty of men who seem to be perfectly comfortable with the arrangement of using the money they earn with their own skills to pay for someone else's expertise, there are three reactions I've grown familiar with that suggest there's often anxiety about letting another guy do your "man jobs." I grew up here in the U.S., but I still find Westerners weird sometimes. My dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh, and for him it's always been a great point of pride for him that he could afford to pay someone to do "man work."
- jakejake 14y ago
  I feel exactly the same way. Nothing makes me happier than to hire a skilled tradesman and see the great results when the work done. His work is going to be much better than mine, assuming I could even do it. I don't really understand why any guy would be threatened by this. I think of it as working smarter, not harder.
  - arethuza 14y ago
    That's pretty much my view - I haven't done any "serious" DIY for years once I found out that a really good tradesman will be much faster, much better quality and often not even that expensive. Of course, the trick is finding the good tradesmen.
    - asmithmd1 14y ago
      It is kind of depressing to consider,but your wages have been going up by 5%-8% a year and the tradesmen's wages have been flat to to down. I have a great, problem solving carpenter who charges $25 per hour - a whole day of his work for $200. There is no way I can compete with that. The trouble is he is pretty busy and hard to get a hold of. I tell him every time he is at my house he should raise his rates and mark-up the cost of the materials he buys
- wr1472 14y ago
  Which village in Bangladesh out of interest?
scotty79 14y ago
My artist life partner had a good laugh when she found out that our male friend is waiting for a handyman to have her painting hanged as if driving nail into a wall was some sort of job for skilled professional.
- josefresco 14y ago
  How expensive is the painting? Does your male friend have a stud finder or know common building measurements to locate a stud? If there's no stud did he buy the right wall anchor to support the weight? I'm saying most of this in jest, but sometimes simple jobs are anything but.
  - scotty79 14y ago
    My life partner is not a famous painter (yet :-)). I guess the painting was worth pretty much the same as the canvas it was painted on since you could paint the canvas over (apart from sentimental value of course, which wasn't that high too since she gave the painting away as a present). Our friends house is not light frame construction, hence no studs (I guess it was build of something along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete ). Also the painting is frameless so pretty light so it should be sufficiently supported by a single nail (although at our home my partner prefers to hang them on wall plugs. She's overcautious with a lot of things). I assure you that our friend was deservedly laughed at by us (and only by us, we are nice people) and we respect him all the same.
IvyMike 14y ago
There's always the choice to be made: The handyman/contractor/mechanic has the skills, and the tools, and probably knows what to do, but in my experience often doesn't give a shit about the quality of his work. (But see below) I don't have the skills, and may not have the tools, and I don't know what to do, but given time I have proven myself able to learn, and I really do care how things turn out. Often 'giving a shit' makes up for a lot more of your initial ignorance than you would think. If there was some great way of finding that rare someone who did have pride in their workmanship (or at least could adequately describe the various tradeoffs that might be made) it would be a lot easier for me to trust someone else to do the work.
- GFischer 14y ago
  Countless startups have tried that... and we still dont have a great way to get accurate recommendations for handymen, maids, mechanics, elderly care, etc... all those where trust and skill are needed. So far I still rely on person-to-person recommendations. Many suggest that Facebook could hold the keys to that particular kingdom, by providing a verifiable online identity. AirBnB is one of those that uses Facebook for that.
keithpeter 14y ago
"In the course of his career, my dad was an infantry officer, a military attaché, a Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, and an arms-reduction negotiator. At home, he was a wrench. Dude could fix anything." That is a career. I imagine the work at home was a form of relaxation and a way of spending time with family, as well as seeming natural from childhood. "It's clear, however, that even though boys these days usually have little opportunity to receive vocational education at school or elsewhere, there is still pressure for men to somehow have absorbed traditionally masculine skills by the time they are grown up." We seem to have lost the idea of education somehow in our chase after pass rates (UK perspective), so schools are pushing the book learning more. Families have less time these days for informal education by helping.
dankoss 14y ago
It's interesting that the DIY mentality doesn't extend to fixing or maintaining computers. I'm not sure if its a generational thing, or the fact that computers are becoming appliances, but it seems like less people are willing to try to fix computer problems on their own.
- nlawalker 14y ago
  It's for the same reason that people like myself don't do home repairs on their own - because it can be really, really hard to tell what the right solution is without a lot of research and experience. Without that knowledge, it's impossible to know if I will have hosed something beyond repair if I try and fail.
mnarayan01 14y ago
I get the distinct impression that the writer views the lack of handyman skills as being effeminate (at least intuitively, perhaps not intellectually). I would, therefore, add a fourth class of customer to his list: people who are socially perceptive.
- abraininavat 14y ago
  What? You should read more closely closely. I looked specifically for that attitude while reading, and didn't find it. Our roles in the professional landscape have become highly specialized, and gender plays an ever-decreasing part in them. And yet, in our responsibilities at home, we often cling to the traditional notions of gender segregation and territoriality. As we make progress toward equity in the workplace and fair division of unpaid family labor, we would do well to distance ourselves from the gender expectations at home that developed centuries ago, before contractors, caterers, and housekeepers made them virtually obsolete.
  - mnarayan01 14y ago
    The opening details his father's expertise with all things home-repair related; his mother is mentioned (in an aside) as being able to use a saw and hammer. Then you have the following (admittedly out of context): > I looked on in horror as my foreman taunted my friend who seemed to be driving a nail for the first time in his life: "Aw, c'mon, sister! Why don't you just hit it with your purse?" > Even if their own fathers were in the trades, my male clients, especially those who are younger than me, tend not to have worked alongside their dads, much less taken a shop class. They're more likely to have taken AP classes and played sports. > While I must admit that part of me sometimes wants to say, "It's okay, little buddy, Daddy's here now," I should note: I do not think that he's arguing that lack of handyman skills is effeminate; as I said previously, he might not (probably does not?) believe this intellectually. The impression I get reading the article, however, is that he does believe it at an intellectual level. Obviously YMMV, etc.
- jordan0day 14y ago
  I'm not sure what you're basing that on? While the author indicates that he meets a lot of men who view a lack of handyman skills as not masculine, I don't see any indication that "not masculine" = "effeminate".
josefresco 14y ago
The description of work the author performed growing up in the article is a little more than just what a 'handyman' performs. Where I live most of this work would require (by law and for insurance) extensive permitting and professionals with accreditation's and licenses to perform the work. I'm not saying the work couldn't be done by a handyman, just that with current codes there are many obstacles for a homeowner to perform their own home maintenance and improvements.
benevpayor 14y ago
Do you ever get the client that wants to learn how to do the improvements? My house is my largest investment. I don't want to screw it up with an amateur fix, but I would love to work side by side with an expert to learn how to do the more advanced stuff correctly.
johncagula 14y ago
opportunity cost; get someone else to do it, let me code
steven2012 14y ago
Put me in the camp of someone who has no idea on how to do any sort of handyman jobs, and I'm in my 40s. In fact, 3 months ago I bought a dartboard, and only have a vague idea on how hang it. I'm guessing my wall is drywall (?) and I imagine I'm supposed to drill holes and put those plastic screw-condoms (no idea what the name is) in there that expand into the drywall. But the thing stopping me is 1) I don't know if those screw-condom things are strong enough to hold up my dartboard, which is rather heavy and 2) I have no idea if I will be drilling into electrical wires. This weekend I was going to roll up my sleeves and Youtube videos and probably post on reddit for some advice. It's sad, but I don't dwell over it, and it's not really a source of insecurity because quite frankly, none of my friends know how to do it either, otherwise I would have asked their help for it.
- dkarl 14y ago
  For a task that hasn't changed much in twenty years, the assistance you'll get from a how-to-fix-it book will probably beat the assistance you can get on the internet, just because the quality of illustration will be much better. Out of date copies are cheap, but the directions for hanging something heavy on drywall will be the same.
justinhj 14y ago
No qualms here. I cook for my family and I'm quite adept at that, but when it comes to getting my hands dirty or fixing things I'm not interested. When I was a teen my stepdad used to try and get me out of the bedroom to help in the yard or in his workshop, but I was happier up there learning C and 68000. Turns out that worked out well for everyone. I can afford to pay someone to do things I don't enjoy.
16s 14y ago
If you can swap out your wife's car alternator, install an electrical outlet in her sewing room, til up the garden and replace the kitchen faucet when it leaks she'll keep you around for many years and she will bake you cookies! It seems parts of our brains will always be primitive. Tarzan and Jane sort of relationship. I don't mind. As a man, I enjoy doing these things. I like helping my wife, saving money and using my hands to fix stuff myself rather than paying someone else. The only big hurdle I face is finding time to do these things. It's not an ability issue, but a time issue. Also, manual labor is a nice break from coding and technology and my wife rewards my efforts handsomely as sometimes I get kisses and cookies ;)
trustfundbaby 14y ago
half-tongue-in-cheek, half-serious, but ... I wonder if the same thing happens with freelance sysops/devops guys. Most developers like to think they can setup and run servers, so it would be interesting to see the way they respond when they have to call someone in to help them clean up and organize their server arrangements.
Zimahl 14y ago
In defense of the modern male, things just aren't as simple as getting on a whim of building "walls and sidewalks, installed woodstoves, laid tile, added electrical circuits and plumbing fixtures, fixed furnaces". There are so many codes these days you can easily do something not to code and it cost you twice as much. Changing light fixtures and faucets is one thing - major construction is another. As an example, my friends furnace is going out. Not a huge deal, they can buy a new one and have it installed. But wait! Now the AC unit that sits outside isn't up to code - it's too close to the property line (although it was fine back in 1989). That has to move, along with a fair amount of electrical and plumbing to support it. How would he know that? It's just not worth it if something is done incorrectly. Better to pay a bonded contractor to do something right and spend your time doing something fun. If something goes wrong it's on him. Also, I think HGTV has screwed us as a nation. Now every wife on the plant thinks it's so easy to tear down a wall and get that open floorplan to the kitchen. What's worse every husband agrees! And it's all done in a half-hour! Months later, when your marriage is on the skids and you've gone to Home Depot 30 times and spent twice what a contractor would charge you finally learn your lesson.
- vitals 14y ago
  Most construction codes are not all that hard to interpret for someone who deals with 'code' all day(albeit a very different one)
Charlesmigli 14y ago
There is a huge gap on how people behave at home and at work. Following our primitive instincts our home has to be defended. That's why we don't like somebody walking into it and doing stuffs we are responsible for. There is a summary available for this blogpost here http://tldr.io/tldrs/5155bc59ccd25bb8600005c1/what-being-a-handyman-has-taught-me-about-male-insecurity http://tldr.io/tldrs/5155bc59ccd25bb8600005c1/what-being-a-h....
johngalt 14y ago
For me the hardest one to give up was car maintenance. I grew up working on cars, and if I wasn't in IT I'd probably be a mechanic. Unfortunately keeping all the tools and supplies necessary was too much of a hassle for a single late model vehicle that requires practically no maintenance. It doesn't bother me to have someone mow my lawn or fix the way my doors hang, but handing the car keys over for an oil change is painful. And FYI, women have it significantly worse in this regard. The division between feminism and traditional roles has created a trap. You'll be judged both for having and not-having traditionally female skills.
- juiceandjuice 14y ago
  The oil change thing was much easier when I had a garage/driveway/flat street and I had a lifted jeep cherokee (which broke a lot, but was easy as hell to fix and change oil). With my car now, I can't even find ramps that are appropriate for it. Luckily I bought my (Subaru) new in 2009, so I just take it in for maintenance when required. Also, living in an apartment is weird because it's not your house. I want to replace the kitchen cabinets, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. I'd love to be able to just own my own house, I even dream of just getting an old house and redoing the electrical, fixing it, getting a 203k loan, but that's not very easy in the bay area. I don't have any trouble letting other people do stuff for me, but I usually want to be right there talking to the person the whole time, usually learning whatever new things I can.
- elptacek 14y ago
  Tom has finally convinced me that it is less expensive to us to have a handyman fix things than for me to do it myself. Which is a bummer, because I do so love excuses to use power tools. I've often wondered how many people in tech would probably be mechanics or carpenters (or welders/blacksmiths) if there was no more lucrative occupation. It seems to me there's a great number of people in my network who do these things as hobbies. Scratches an itch.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  If there is one thing I have learned in my life it is this: you will be judged no matter what you do or not do. The key is to only care about the opinions of a few - and never give a shit about people who talk laud.
tangledweb 14y ago
I'm not sure how closely tied the "please do this easy task for me" behavior is to gender. I see it as a pretty common bad habit in lots of people and tie it to ignorance rather than insecurity about gender roles. If you don't know much about an area it's hard to tell what tasks within it are easy or hard, so it's easy to assume that all jobs done by other people are easy. I've seen it expressed as "this is just a website, so I assume you can have it done by Friday" or "sounds like a 10 line Perl script to me" or "I need a favor. I'm sure it will only take you 10 minutes" or "What took you so long?", but the pattern is the same.
Macsenour 14y ago
A friend of a friend once spent 20 minutes verbally beating me up for not knowing how to change the spark plugs in my car. I finally shut him up with: "I just upgraded my PC with a new HD and doubled the ram. When you're done I'm going to Fry's to get a new video board because the new Nvida chip is out and affordable". I learned to have zero issues with the "man tasks" thing.
jetti 14y ago
I find this interesting, especially since I'm not handy at all but am planning on changing that once my wife and I get a house. One thing that I have noticed that may be a source of this insecurity is the significant other. I can't even count the number of times my wife has said "You're a man, you should be able to do that" before or after asking her dad to fix something or work on something. It doesn't bother me and I retort "You're a woman, why aren't you making my meals and doing laundry as well as cleaning", which are tasks I do myself and have no expectation of my wife doing those solely on her own. My point being is that gender roles are typically ingrained in both genders and while a male may be comfortable not knowing how to do something, there may be an discomfort generated by the response of the significant other.

186 points by wallflower 14y ago

Is it me or are there an extremely large number of front-page stories from The Atlantic today? There are three on the frontpage right now, with 2 more in the next three pages (all of which frontpaged at least for a moment).

kamkazemoose 14y ago
I definitely noticed that as well. It could be a self-propagating cycle? Maybe people see an article from The Atlantic, then while they're there they find another article and post that? The more people post articles from The Atlantic, the more people who go and read other articles there and go on to post them here. And personally, I think it is a pretty good publication. They have some interesting stories and they are generally well written.
mattdeboard 14y ago
The Atlantic was banned from reddit for spamming last year. Wouldn't surprise me if they were doing the same BS here.
- shardling 14y ago
  Well, the submitter of this article has a 5 year old account. They frequently submit news articles from a variety of sources, and are also an active commenter. (Though, they do seem to like posting quotes.) The other two atlantic articles on the front page are from 2-3 year old accounts that likewise post a lot of pieces from various newspapers. You're welcome to dig through their posting history for a conspiracy, but it's not jumping out at me.
  - Avshalom 14y ago
    Doesn't necessarily have to be the poster, the upvoters are the ones that get it on the front page.
    - shardling 14y ago
      Hmm, you know, my comment defending the Atlantic posters actually does have a weird amount of upvotes. (Not a joke -- it's at +37 right now, which seems high given its placement and late timing in the thread.)
  - rrreese 14y ago
    I like the fact that you investigated this before posting rather then being "ra ra conspiracy" like the other posters.
    - mattdeboard 14y ago
      It's not a conspiracy, it's a well-known and common business practice for content companies.
      - shardling 14y ago
        I, at least, meant conspiracy in the more literal sense: people coordinating in secret.
  - mattdeboard 14y ago
    Doesn't have to be new accounts. "Pay to post" is a regular occurrence and a lucrative side business for people on high-traffic, user-curated content sites like Reddit and Digg.
epa 14y ago
Seems suspect. Not sure why this type of content is being posted on hacker news. It's a poorly written article not having to do with this site's prerogative..
booruguru 14y ago
Maybe its because The Atlantic consistently produces high quality content that deserves to be on the HN front page.

martinced 14y ago

Can we please stop all the pseudo-psychology male / female / testosterone / hymen stuff on HN and concentrate on friggin' hacker news and startup news? (also what's up with all the theatlantic.com upvotes on non-HN worthy stories, do we have sock muppets in the house?)

dizzystar 14y ago

I was a carpenter for the better part of my 20s. Definitely many stories like this that came up. The one that bothered me the most was how many times they looked at me silly for making a "bad" cut, when of course, I was making said cut because the area wasn't square. I had one guy get angry at me for making a frame that was visibly crooked, so I told him he should probably make it square and hang it up himself. When he put the piece up and saw it didn't fit flush, he apologized and said I was right after all. I then told him that was the last piece of wood. Sometimes the respect is hard-earned. I just chalked it up to the amount of times they got screwed over by people of lower ability, so in general, there was a lot of defensiveness. The male-role thing was apparent, but after earning respect and trust, they pretty much always got out of my way. I've had, quite often, jobs where I was more or less helping the home owner build and those were the most enjoyable and memorable moments. Contrary to what this story suggests, it was usually the rich folk who got on their hands and knees beside me and pounded nails. I think it was about perspective. The rich folk seemed more willing to learn it, try it, and logic out the problem. The middle class folk didn't seem to willing to learn or want to get their hands dirty, so usually they weren't present and were more prone to complaining. Construction is super easy if you can think about the problem from multiple perspectives. I find it surprising how few people have the capacity to view the world in this way.

sliverstorm 14y ago
The rich folk seemed more willing to learn it, try it, and logic out the problem. The middle class folk ... usually weren't present and were more prone to complaining. Or, the middle class folks didn't have time to hang around, while rich folk don't always work 9-5.
- DuskStar 14y ago
  Or that the rich folk might have gotten that way through being "more willing to learn it, try it, and logic out the problem."
  - InclinedPlane 14y ago

pyre 14y ago

Personally, the tension that I have in dealing with contractors is not wanting to be taken advantage of. Much in the same way that mechanics and used car salesmen are 'notorious' for taking advantage of people.

ars 14y ago
That's because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry and the cure is more information. Before undertaking any major project study it intensively, and you'll feel much better about it. If you can't do the study yourself then find a trusted, disinterested, 3rd party to do it for you. (Of course that entails some study itself...)
- 7952 14y ago
  I just built a bike from parts after several days research. Most components are incompatible which makes it a minefield. The internet makes it seem like their is unlimited choice when in fact there are 1000 incompatible choices, and only one that works and is in your price range. It is absolutely worth it as I now have a bike I can repair myself.
dizzystar 14y ago
I've seen this played out so many times, it is quite sickening. I generally found that union folk can't pound themselves out of a paper bag. At the risk of sounding inflammatory, many home owners want everything cheap as humanly possible, so they find people willing to do it for below minimum wage (immigrants) and buy the cheapest, warped material they can find at Home Depot. Sometimes spending a little extra money for expertise is worth the sacrifice. You are, after all, paying for a service that affects the most important piece of property you own, and you may have to live with a regret for 30 or more years. Now days, you can get references, see photos of prior work, and of course someone with high quality tools (not Craftsman) and a truck is likely to be a better choice. Someone that is willing to say "no" to you is also a good sign.
- epoxyhockey 14y ago

InclinedPlane 14y ago

I took AP classes in college, and I work in the software industry, but I still know how to work with my hands and I'm very happy to have that knowledge. It's not that hard, if you feel bad about not knowing anything, go learn, go take a class or two, go read a book or two, go ask a friend, or use the internet, there are a million excellent resources out there. Pick a simple project and do it, then do another project. Stocking a basic toolbox is extraordinarily inexpensive, there's really no reason not to have one. I think the reason so many people aren't as handy as they used to be has to do more with culture than with anything else, here's an excellent TED talk from Mike Rowe (from Dirty Jobs) on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRVdiHu1VCc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRVdiHu1VCc

dpeck 14y ago
" Stocking a basic toolbox is extraordinarily inexpensive, there's really no reason not to have one." This is great advice, anyone reading who doesn't have at least the basics please get them. I have a few friends who I help out on occasion and it is incredibly frustrating to not have the basic tools available. Decent screwdriver set Socket set Hammer Electrical Pliers Multimeter Pliers Adjustable Wrench Just these basic tools can get you a long way to solving problems. I hated it at the time, but I spent nearly every weekend of my 8th and 9th grade years remodeling our house with my dad. Being able to understand the job that needs to be done, even if you'd do a poor job doing it yourself, is invaluable.
- michaelbuddy 14y ago
  Pfft. A basic toolbox doesn't even get you halfway there. Here's why. Because the basic tools are not the keys to the kingdom. The way it works is this. You NEED to familiarize yourself with all the little connectors, fasteners, bolts screws and materials. Hundreds or thousands of them. Got a nice drill? Great. Guess what you better know what masonry bit is, and that you need to use a smaller bit than what you think, cause you're gonna over drill. Have a few plumber wrenches? Cool, too bad you never learned what rubber washers are essential in your bathtub faucet. And your '50s faucet isn't exactly the ones featured on the how-to PDFs online. Want to hang a shelf? you have NO idea how many types of hanging fasteners there are. From a single penny nail to a $2.50 self-driving metal compression anchor. Then all the reassurance in the world from the guy at the hardware store doesn't mean anything when you get home because your house will be different. When things start crumbling, (and they will) then you went from 1 task to 4. Big mess, wife gets pissed. You want to die. How do you find studs? Too bad nearly EVERY single stud finder is a mediocre piece of shit. Most people don't even know that to cut a straight line on plywood, you can clamp a long level and use it as a fence. A circular saw is worthless without a good straight edge fence. Need to do some wall patching? Guess what. The joint compound you see at the store. That's the gimmicky crap that vendors pay for premium end cap space. Get it home and it's shit. The real handymen laugh because they know the real stuff is the powder and its in 50 lb bags, costs 1/20 of what you paid and is found back in the dusty dark corner. The handyman business is full of tricks the pros have had time to develop and then taken to their graves. My battery was dead on my motorcycle. The manual that came with it had NO information on what to do. My cycle is a couple years old, but not old enough to have a 3rd party repair manual. Had I hooked up the car charger, I'd have ruined it. I asked the sales guy at the shop... How am I supposed to know this stuff if it's not in the manual. He said, 'well people just know it from working with and owning motorcycles.' For fuck sakes man. The world of home improvement shows is riddled with holes in the processes. Sure you see a nice polished tutorial that completely glazes over the clean up process or the variance in materials. I've refinished wood floors in 3 different houses. I've yet to find a proper tutorial on the process that comes close to what I've had to do. They are all missing tons of important detail on how to do the job right. and guess what, google has been completely gamed with bad SEO sites. So the first million results for the home improvement problem you're facing. Guaranteed to be advertising masquerading as help. Here's my absolute favorite one though. The solvents and other chemicals you buy. There are NO proper methods of disposal for the average person. So then you're stuck with 25 cans of flammable poisonous liquids in your garage for the better part of a decade. You can only hope that you happen to know when the next chemical disposal event happens at your nearby church or community center. Otherwise, you're fucked if you want to legally and safely get rid of the stuff. So yeah being a weekend handyman. Fun.

ameister14 14y ago

Until I went to college I didn't realize not everyone learned wood and metalworking in school. Industrial Arts, it was called. We learned to make jewelry, forge with iron, etc. Then in high school I did woodworking instead, and made furniture, which most of us sold as a side job. I just thought that was totally normal. I'm still not sure why it isn't.

vacri 14y ago
I think exactly the same thing of 'critical thinking'.
trhtrsh 14y ago
Budget cuts. You can't write a standardized test for woodworking, so schools stopped teaching it.
- r00fus 14y ago
  Schools were forced to stop teaching anything "arts", effectively, by NCLB (which is basically designed to destroy public schooling and give that to private industry). Many schools would love to get more arts back in their curriculum, but their funding goes away if they don't focus on those damn tests to the exclusion of all else.
  - SilasX 14y ago
    You mean, NCLB revealed how most schools were failing to teach the most basic things needed for success in the real world, which they somehow were able to convey to the "carpenter-track" students just decades ago? Seriously, I hear a lot of kvetching about schools burdened by having to "teach to the test". I never very little about which specific parts of the test are unfair or about things students shouldn't be expected to know.
    - r00fus 14y ago
      Do you know any teachers or have you spent time recently in a classroom? Test preparation takes a huge amount of the bandwidth. Student assignment to classes is apportioned so there is a good "balance" to testing averages. To dismiss NCLB as anything but an attempt to sabotage the entire public school system is nieve.

lostlogin 14y ago

I think part of it has to relate to what you enjoy doing. I enjoy few things more than reaching the time of day when work clothes can come off, dirty old shirt goes on, lithium ion tool drill comes out and the circular saw is plugged in. It's the best relaxation I have found, and unlike my real job, I can actually achieve something without other screwing it up and the results are measurable. Don't ask about the accidents, stitches and cost/time blowouts.

jeffdavis 14y ago

"This attitude is certainly built on classism and general obliviousness as much as gender issues...whereas with rich men, haggling seems to be a necessary ritual." The author makes it sound like negotiating over an estimate is a character flaw. Stereotypically, men are more likely to negotiate over almost anything. At least that comes up during discussions of pay inequality; I'm not really sure what the facts are. Also, negotiating is probably a more common, habitual practice among "rich" people (by which I assume he means businessmen, lawyers, etc.). I don't see any evidence that it comes from some kind of classism; rather, it's a useful and important skill in their job. People who really don't know anything about handywork are likely to use what they do know to attempt to get quality work at a fair price.

rayiner 14y ago

> Although I've worked for plenty of men who seem to be perfectly comfortable with the arrangement of using the money they earn with their own skills to pay for someone else's expertise, there are three reactions I've grown familiar with that suggest there's often anxiety about letting another guy do your "man jobs." I grew up here in the U.S., but I still find Westerners weird sometimes. My dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh, and for him it's always been a great point of pride for him that he could afford to pay someone to do "man work."

jakejake 14y ago
I feel exactly the same way. Nothing makes me happier than to hire a skilled tradesman and see the great results when the work done. His work is going to be much better than mine, assuming I could even do it. I don't really understand why any guy would be threatened by this. I think of it as working smarter, not harder.
- arethuza 14y ago
  That's pretty much my view - I haven't done any "serious" DIY for years once I found out that a really good tradesman will be much faster, much better quality and often not even that expensive. Of course, the trick is finding the good tradesmen.
  - asmithmd1 14y ago
    It is kind of depressing to consider,but your wages have been going up by 5%-8% a year and the tradesmen's wages have been flat to to down. I have a great, problem solving carpenter who charges $25 per hour - a whole day of his work for $200. There is no way I can compete with that. The trouble is he is pretty busy and hard to get a hold of. I tell him every time he is at my house he should raise his rates and mark-up the cost of the materials he buys
wr1472 14y ago
Which village in Bangladesh out of interest?

scotty79 14y ago

My artist life partner had a good laugh when she found out that our male friend is waiting for a handyman to have her painting hanged as if driving nail into a wall was some sort of job for skilled professional.

josefresco 14y ago
How expensive is the painting? Does your male friend have a stud finder or know common building measurements to locate a stud? If there's no stud did he buy the right wall anchor to support the weight? I'm saying most of this in jest, but sometimes simple jobs are anything but.
- scotty79 14y ago
  My life partner is not a famous painter (yet :-)). I guess the painting was worth pretty much the same as the canvas it was painted on since you could paint the canvas over (apart from sentimental value of course, which wasn't that high too since she gave the painting away as a present). Our friends house is not light frame construction, hence no studs (I guess it was build of something along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete ). Also the painting is frameless so pretty light so it should be sufficiently supported by a single nail (although at our home my partner prefers to hang them on wall plugs. She's overcautious with a lot of things). I assure you that our friend was deservedly laughed at by us (and only by us, we are nice people) and we respect him all the same.

IvyMike 14y ago

There's always the choice to be made: The handyman/contractor/mechanic has the skills, and the tools, and probably knows what to do, but in my experience often doesn't give a shit about the quality of his work. (But see below) I don't have the skills, and may not have the tools, and I don't know what to do, but given time I have proven myself able to learn, and I really do care how things turn out. Often 'giving a shit' makes up for a lot more of your initial ignorance than you would think. If there was some great way of finding that rare someone who did have pride in their workmanship (or at least could adequately describe the various tradeoffs that might be made) it would be a lot easier for me to trust someone else to do the work.

GFischer 14y ago
Countless startups have tried that... and we still dont have a great way to get accurate recommendations for handymen, maids, mechanics, elderly care, etc... all those where trust and skill are needed. So far I still rely on person-to-person recommendations. Many suggest that Facebook could hold the keys to that particular kingdom, by providing a verifiable online identity. AirBnB is one of those that uses Facebook for that.

keithpeter 14y ago

"In the course of his career, my dad was an infantry officer, a military attaché, a Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, and an arms-reduction negotiator. At home, he was a wrench. Dude could fix anything." That is a career. I imagine the work at home was a form of relaxation and a way of spending time with family, as well as seeming natural from childhood. "It's clear, however, that even though boys these days usually have little opportunity to receive vocational education at school or elsewhere, there is still pressure for men to somehow have absorbed traditionally masculine skills by the time they are grown up." We seem to have lost the idea of education somehow in our chase after pass rates (UK perspective), so schools are pushing the book learning more. Families have less time these days for informal education by helping.

dankoss 14y ago

It's interesting that the DIY mentality doesn't extend to fixing or maintaining computers. I'm not sure if its a generational thing, or the fact that computers are becoming appliances, but it seems like less people are willing to try to fix computer problems on their own.

nlawalker 14y ago
It's for the same reason that people like myself don't do home repairs on their own - because it can be really, really hard to tell what the right solution is without a lot of research and experience. Without that knowledge, it's impossible to know if I will have hosed something beyond repair if I try and fail.

mnarayan01 14y ago

I get the distinct impression that the writer views the lack of handyman skills as being effeminate (at least intuitively, perhaps not intellectually). I would, therefore, add a fourth class of customer to his list: people who are socially perceptive.

abraininavat 14y ago
What? You should read more closely closely. I looked specifically for that attitude while reading, and didn't find it. Our roles in the professional landscape have become highly specialized, and gender plays an ever-decreasing part in them. And yet, in our responsibilities at home, we often cling to the traditional notions of gender segregation and territoriality. As we make progress toward equity in the workplace and fair division of unpaid family labor, we would do well to distance ourselves from the gender expectations at home that developed centuries ago, before contractors, caterers, and housekeepers made them virtually obsolete.
- mnarayan01 14y ago
  The opening details his father's expertise with all things home-repair related; his mother is mentioned (in an aside) as being able to use a saw and hammer. Then you have the following (admittedly out of context): > I looked on in horror as my foreman taunted my friend who seemed to be driving a nail for the first time in his life: "Aw, c'mon, sister! Why don't you just hit it with your purse?" > Even if their own fathers were in the trades, my male clients, especially those who are younger than me, tend not to have worked alongside their dads, much less taken a shop class. They're more likely to have taken AP classes and played sports. > While I must admit that part of me sometimes wants to say, "It's okay, little buddy, Daddy's here now," I should note: I do not think that he's arguing that lack of handyman skills is effeminate; as I said previously, he might not (probably does not?) believe this intellectually. The impression I get reading the article, however, is that he does believe it at an intellectual level. Obviously YMMV, etc.
jordan0day 14y ago
I'm not sure what you're basing that on? While the author indicates that he meets a lot of men who view a lack of handyman skills as not masculine, I don't see any indication that "not masculine" = "effeminate".

josefresco 14y ago

The description of work the author performed growing up in the article is a little more than just what a 'handyman' performs. Where I live most of this work would require (by law and for insurance) extensive permitting and professionals with accreditation's and licenses to perform the work. I'm not saying the work couldn't be done by a handyman, just that with current codes there are many obstacles for a homeowner to perform their own home maintenance and improvements.

benevpayor 14y ago

Do you ever get the client that wants to learn how to do the improvements? My house is my largest investment. I don't want to screw it up with an amateur fix, but I would love to work side by side with an expert to learn how to do the more advanced stuff correctly.

johncagula 14y ago

opportunity cost; get someone else to do it, let me code

steven2012 14y ago

Put me in the camp of someone who has no idea on how to do any sort of handyman jobs, and I'm in my 40s. In fact, 3 months ago I bought a dartboard, and only have a vague idea on how hang it. I'm guessing my wall is drywall (?) and I imagine I'm supposed to drill holes and put those plastic screw-condoms (no idea what the name is) in there that expand into the drywall. But the thing stopping me is 1) I don't know if those screw-condom things are strong enough to hold up my dartboard, which is rather heavy and 2) I have no idea if I will be drilling into electrical wires. This weekend I was going to roll up my sleeves and Youtube videos and probably post on reddit for some advice. It's sad, but I don't dwell over it, and it's not really a source of insecurity because quite frankly, none of my friends know how to do it either, otherwise I would have asked their help for it.

dkarl 14y ago
For a task that hasn't changed much in twenty years, the assistance you'll get from a how-to-fix-it book will probably beat the assistance you can get on the internet, just because the quality of illustration will be much better. Out of date copies are cheap, but the directions for hanging something heavy on drywall will be the same.

justinhj 14y ago

No qualms here. I cook for my family and I'm quite adept at that, but when it comes to getting my hands dirty or fixing things I'm not interested. When I was a teen my stepdad used to try and get me out of the bedroom to help in the yard or in his workshop, but I was happier up there learning C and 68000. Turns out that worked out well for everyone. I can afford to pay someone to do things I don't enjoy.

16s 14y ago

If you can swap out your wife's car alternator, install an electrical outlet in her sewing room, til up the garden and replace the kitchen faucet when it leaks she'll keep you around for many years and she will bake you cookies! It seems parts of our brains will always be primitive. Tarzan and Jane sort of relationship. I don't mind. As a man, I enjoy doing these things. I like helping my wife, saving money and using my hands to fix stuff myself rather than paying someone else. The only big hurdle I face is finding time to do these things. It's not an ability issue, but a time issue. Also, manual labor is a nice break from coding and technology and my wife rewards my efforts handsomely as sometimes I get kisses and cookies ;)

trustfundbaby 14y ago

half-tongue-in-cheek, half-serious, but ... I wonder if the same thing happens with freelance sysops/devops guys. Most developers like to think they can setup and run servers, so it would be interesting to see the way they respond when they have to call someone in to help them clean up and organize their server arrangements.

Zimahl 14y ago

In defense of the modern male, things just aren't as simple as getting on a whim of building "walls and sidewalks, installed woodstoves, laid tile, added electrical circuits and plumbing fixtures, fixed furnaces". There are so many codes these days you can easily do something not to code and it cost you twice as much. Changing light fixtures and faucets is one thing - major construction is another. As an example, my friends furnace is going out. Not a huge deal, they can buy a new one and have it installed. But wait! Now the AC unit that sits outside isn't up to code - it's too close to the property line (although it was fine back in 1989). That has to move, along with a fair amount of electrical and plumbing to support it. How would he know that? It's just not worth it if something is done incorrectly. Better to pay a bonded contractor to do something right and spend your time doing something fun. If something goes wrong it's on him. Also, I think HGTV has screwed us as a nation. Now every wife on the plant thinks it's so easy to tear down a wall and get that open floorplan to the kitchen. What's worse every husband agrees! And it's all done in a half-hour! Months later, when your marriage is on the skids and you've gone to Home Depot 30 times and spent twice what a contractor would charge you finally learn your lesson.

vitals 14y ago
Most construction codes are not all that hard to interpret for someone who deals with 'code' all day(albeit a very different one)

Charlesmigli 14y ago

There is a huge gap on how people behave at home and at work. Following our primitive instincts our home has to be defended. That's why we don't like somebody walking into it and doing stuffs we are responsible for. There is a summary available for this blogpost here http://tldr.io/tldrs/5155bc59ccd25bb8600005c1/what-being-a-handyman-has-taught-me-about-male-insecurity http://tldr.io/tldrs/5155bc59ccd25bb8600005c1/what-being-a-h....

johngalt 14y ago

For me the hardest one to give up was car maintenance. I grew up working on cars, and if I wasn't in IT I'd probably be a mechanic. Unfortunately keeping all the tools and supplies necessary was too much of a hassle for a single late model vehicle that requires practically no maintenance. It doesn't bother me to have someone mow my lawn or fix the way my doors hang, but handing the car keys over for an oil change is painful. And FYI, women have it significantly worse in this regard. The division between feminism and traditional roles has created a trap. You'll be judged both for having and not-having traditionally female skills.

juiceandjuice 14y ago
The oil change thing was much easier when I had a garage/driveway/flat street and I had a lifted jeep cherokee (which broke a lot, but was easy as hell to fix and change oil). With my car now, I can't even find ramps that are appropriate for it. Luckily I bought my (Subaru) new in 2009, so I just take it in for maintenance when required. Also, living in an apartment is weird because it's not your house. I want to replace the kitchen cabinets, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. I'd love to be able to just own my own house, I even dream of just getting an old house and redoing the electrical, fixing it, getting a 203k loan, but that's not very easy in the bay area. I don't have any trouble letting other people do stuff for me, but I usually want to be right there talking to the person the whole time, usually learning whatever new things I can.
elptacek 14y ago
Tom has finally convinced me that it is less expensive to us to have a handyman fix things than for me to do it myself. Which is a bummer, because I do so love excuses to use power tools. I've often wondered how many people in tech would probably be mechanics or carpenters (or welders/blacksmiths) if there was no more lucrative occupation. It seems to me there's a great number of people in my network who do these things as hobbies. Scratches an itch.
tomjen3 14y ago
If there is one thing I have learned in my life it is this: you will be judged no matter what you do or not do. The key is to only care about the opinions of a few - and never give a shit about people who talk laud.

tangledweb 14y ago

I'm not sure how closely tied the "please do this easy task for me" behavior is to gender. I see it as a pretty common bad habit in lots of people and tie it to ignorance rather than insecurity about gender roles. If you don't know much about an area it's hard to tell what tasks within it are easy or hard, so it's easy to assume that all jobs done by other people are easy. I've seen it expressed as "this is just a website, so I assume you can have it done by Friday" or "sounds like a 10 line Perl script to me" or "I need a favor. I'm sure it will only take you 10 minutes" or "What took you so long?", but the pattern is the same.

Macsenour 14y ago

A friend of a friend once spent 20 minutes verbally beating me up for not knowing how to change the spark plugs in my car. I finally shut him up with: "I just upgraded my PC with a new HD and doubled the ram. When you're done I'm going to Fry's to get a new video board because the new Nvida chip is out and affordable". I learned to have zero issues with the "man tasks" thing.

jetti 14y ago

I find this interesting, especially since I'm not handy at all but am planning on changing that once my wife and I get a house. One thing that I have noticed that may be a source of this insecurity is the significant other. I can't even count the number of times my wife has said "You're a man, you should be able to do that" before or after asking her dad to fix something or work on something. It doesn't bother me and I retort "You're a woman, why aren't you making my meals and doing laundry as well as cleaning", which are tasks I do myself and have no expectation of my wife doing those solely on her own. My point being is that gender roles are typically ingrained in both genders and while a male may be comfortable not knowing how to do something, there may be an discomfort generated by the response of the significant other.