5 ms·

Reverse Engineering the Human Diet

14 points by falsestprophet 19y ago

zurla 19y ago
is it true that some of these other cultures don't suffer from schizophrenia and other illnesses like that?
- SwellJoe 19y ago
  Yeah, I'm thinking the dude who wrote this is batshit crazy. Must be something he ate.
  - vlad 19y ago
    This article is spot-on. The major problem with this diet (where 'diet' is what one eats on an average day, not necessarilly as a weight-loss tool) is you'll have so much energy, and your body will be so happy, you'll want to be physically active. It will be very hard to stay on the computer.
    - cdr 19y ago
      I'm not sure I'd call two sentences an article.
- asdflkj 19y ago
  It would be difficult to verify. Many cultures have great stigma associated with mental illness, and their people will go to great lengths to conceal it in their family. China is a prominent example.
  - kingkongrevenge 19y ago
    A lot of these primitivists extolling stone age culture tribes praise their perfect health without mentioning the infanticide. Many (most?) stone-age technology tribes kill unhealthy infants. They have a definition of life that begins at age one. It would be impossible to isolate this effect from diet.
- kingkongrevenge 19y ago
  A lot of schizophrenia apparently comes from cat shit. google toxoplasmosis. So maybe it would be hard to find in cat-less cultures.
SwellJoe 19y ago
Citations needed. Otherwise this is the random ravings of a crank on the Internet. (Which is fine...that's what the Internets are for, but I don't have to listen to them.) Sure, some of the suggestions are valid, but other assertions just aren't backed by science.
- vlad 19y ago
  He doesn't sound angry at all. I've read similar discussions. Most foods in the supermarket are manufactured and flash-baked, not baked or picked. This really works and you'll feel great. Avoiding grains, milk, and corn syrup (found in sodas and juices, hot dogs, and other places you wouldn't think of) as well as all manufactured foods is exactly the best way to go. The problem is, this can get much more expensive. I'd love to be able to follow that for sustained periods of time. On the other hand, everything you eat that's not manufactured gives much more energy throughout the day. Who cares how much 'heat' a food generates in calories? What matters is what kind of energy you get from it.
  - wyday 19y ago
    > He doesn't sound angry at all. Mellow people can be crazy too. Though, whether he's crazy or not, there isn't a shred of evidence presented besides the picture of "tribal health" he paints.
    - vlad 19y ago
      I don't think he meant this to be a scientific paper, otherwise, as a physician, he could be liable for giving out medical advice. I can see how he would make this message appear informal. A lot of writing by nutritionists aimed at the general public is similarly informal and easy to understand. I've read many stories and know that avoiding cereals, grains, and milk is a good idea for weight loss and sugar management. I was able to google some sources. Note that pesticides may also introduce toxins. I'm with Steve Pavlina on trying things and seeing if they work. The advice seems to be true. http://www.nourishingourchildren.org/parents/cereal.html http://www.nourishingourchildren.org/parents/cereal.html Like he said in the article, he doesn't mean toxic in the unsafe sense. He means toxic in terms of, it's not good for your body. He means it's not the natural way every species on earth has consumed this food for thousands of years.
gojomo 19y ago
See also Art Devany's writing, at <http://www.arthurdevany.com/evolutionary_fitness/> http://www.arthurdevany.com/evolutionary_fitness/>. He sometimes (but not always) refers in his blog entries to recent supporting research for the 'paleolithic' diet ideal. There's a lot of similarity to 'low-carb' diets that have been popular. An overview of DeVany's health outlook is in the essay, <http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff/images/RevisedEssay.pdf> http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff/images/RevisedEssay.pdf.... Interestingly, in DeVany's view, endurance running (as in a marathon) is a very bad thing for long-term health.
paul 19y ago
I've seen claims like this a lot: "There are races of people who are all slim, who are stronger and faster than us. They all have straight teeth and perfect eyesight. Arthritis, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, stroke, depression, schizophrenia and cancer are absolute rarities for them. These people are the last 84 tribes of hunter-gatherers in the world." Is that actually true though? It seems like the sort of thing that should be easy to verify or disprove. Whether it's actually caused by diet would be harder to prove, but if these people really are free of all those health problems, that would be quite remarkable and should be studied more carefully.
- davidw 19y ago
  Well, to some degree it may be true because if you are afflicted with something nasty, you die, quickly. That, and not living a sedentary lifestyle are two things that would leave the survivors pretty healthy.
- nostrademons 19y ago
  Dunno if it's true, but Jared Diamond made that claim around 20 years ago: http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j.htm http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j.... I did find a couple peer-reviewed journal articles that seem to support the claim: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/71/3/665.pdf http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/71/3/665.pdf http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/353 http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/353 http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Meat%20Paradox%20Final.pdf http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Meat%20Paradox%20Final.... http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=GqvJhxyHByhpzP150RJfbCk1xNSl1KYD4SRC90lmd2nLSBYTLNSV!933079477?docId=5001672949 http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=GqvJhxyH...
- Shooter 19y ago
  There is a really good book out right now called "Healthy at 100" by John Robbins that speaks to this very subject. It looks at several cultures that tend to have a larger % of HEALTHY centenarians, such as the Okinawans and Hunzans. It looks at what they eat, how they live, etc. It is good because he acknowledges the self-reporting errors in such studies ("Yeah, dude, I'm 110 years old!") and the impact of physical activity and social bonds on longevity, etc. John Robbins is biased (toward vegetarianism/veganism), but his bias is based on sound principles (science, self-experience, environmental impact, ethics, etc.) The book is not preachy or anything, though. His other books are also really good. Especially if you're interested in the food industry, animal cruelty, nutrition and disease, etc. He's a very interesting guy. He walked away from the Baskin-Robbins fortune to live a simpler and healthier life after his dad and uncle (Robbins and Baskin, respectively) both died of heart disease from eating too much of their own product. His one room, self-built cabin with second-hand furniture was featured on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" and it became one of their most requested shows, to everyone's surprise. He's a pretty inspiring guy.
Shooter 19y ago
One of my first successful start-ups was software that helps make sense of the 35,000+ medical studies that are published each year. (The software helps find design flaws, does cohort analysis, helps summarize results, etc.) During that experience, I became very interested in nutrition research as a hobby. I basically learned that things I grew up eating were unbelievably bad for me. (I grew up drinking milk, eating meals centered around meat, with lots of refined, fried and sugary ingredients. Good old Southern cooking and Standard American Diet.) I also learned that much of what we are taught ("Milk for strong bones") is complete bullshit when you actually read the studies. Milk is really for osteoporosis and breast cancer. We sold that company, and I stopped seriously reading on the subject. Recently, illnesses in my family (cancer and autoimmune diseases) have caused me to get into the subject again to an even greater degree. I've also experimented with my own diet for the last several years and I've arrived at a very different conclusion than this fellow. There are tons of people that have an almost religious agenda about pushing specific diets. They are usually well-intentioned...they just really want to believe they are right. They publish pseudo-scientific articles like this one that have just enough logic in them to seduce people into believing them. The media is also horrible about publishing sensational (but poorly analyzed) nutrition research. They flip-flop their headlines so much ("Coffee Can Cure X", then "Coffee Causes X Cancer") that people finally just give up on trying to understand nutrition and they just continue eating the crap that they have always eaten. Which is amazingly sad, because proper nutrition is really the best medicine on earth. I LOOOOOOOVE steak and ice cream, but a vegetarian/vegan diet has been shown in almost every study to be a more healthful diet in every respect. And the studies that fail to show that are usually flawed and/or underwritten by industry trade groups. There is no "perfect diet" for everyone...there will always be corner cases. Some people with specific genetic predispositions SHOULD avoid grains altogether. Apart from gluten sensitivity, there is the issue of molecular mimicry and genetic autoimmune issues, etc. Modern people are dying of heart disease, cancer and strokes, though. Those illnesses are linked to higher consumption of meat (Paleo-coronary, anyone?), dairy, sugar, cooking oil, and refined foods. We are NOT dying of starvation, hypothermia, or tooth loss - which were probably some of the more pressing concerns in the paleolithic era. We are also living 2-4 times longer than our ancestors, on average, so we have entirely different concerns. This is really a fascinating area of research...I've noticed that tons of computer hackers are also very interested in nutrition and body/diet hacks.

zurla 19y ago

is it true that some of these other cultures don't suffer from schizophrenia and other illnesses like that?

SwellJoe 19y ago
Yeah, I'm thinking the dude who wrote this is batshit crazy. Must be something he ate.
- vlad 19y ago
  This article is spot-on. The major problem with this diet (where 'diet' is what one eats on an average day, not necessarilly as a weight-loss tool) is you'll have so much energy, and your body will be so happy, you'll want to be physically active. It will be very hard to stay on the computer.
  - cdr 19y ago
    I'm not sure I'd call two sentences an article.
asdflkj 19y ago
It would be difficult to verify. Many cultures have great stigma associated with mental illness, and their people will go to great lengths to conceal it in their family. China is a prominent example.
- kingkongrevenge 19y ago
  A lot of these primitivists extolling stone age culture tribes praise their perfect health without mentioning the infanticide. Many (most?) stone-age technology tribes kill unhealthy infants. They have a definition of life that begins at age one. It would be impossible to isolate this effect from diet.
kingkongrevenge 19y ago
A lot of schizophrenia apparently comes from cat shit. google toxoplasmosis. So maybe it would be hard to find in cat-less cultures.

Citations needed. Otherwise this is the random ravings of a crank on the Internet. (Which is fine...that's what the Internets are for, but I don't have to listen to them.) Sure, some of the suggestions are valid, but other assertions just aren't backed by science.

vlad 19y ago
He doesn't sound angry at all. I've read similar discussions. Most foods in the supermarket are manufactured and flash-baked, not baked or picked. This really works and you'll feel great. Avoiding grains, milk, and corn syrup (found in sodas and juices, hot dogs, and other places you wouldn't think of) as well as all manufactured foods is exactly the best way to go. The problem is, this can get much more expensive. I'd love to be able to follow that for sustained periods of time. On the other hand, everything you eat that's not manufactured gives much more energy throughout the day. Who cares how much 'heat' a food generates in calories? What matters is what kind of energy you get from it.
- wyday 19y ago
  > He doesn't sound angry at all. Mellow people can be crazy too. Though, whether he's crazy or not, there isn't a shred of evidence presented besides the picture of "tribal health" he paints.
  - vlad 19y ago
    I don't think he meant this to be a scientific paper, otherwise, as a physician, he could be liable for giving out medical advice. I can see how he would make this message appear informal. A lot of writing by nutritionists aimed at the general public is similarly informal and easy to understand. I've read many stories and know that avoiding cereals, grains, and milk is a good idea for weight loss and sugar management. I was able to google some sources. Note that pesticides may also introduce toxins. I'm with Steve Pavlina on trying things and seeing if they work. The advice seems to be true. http://www.nourishingourchildren.org/parents/cereal.html http://www.nourishingourchildren.org/parents/cereal.html Like he said in the article, he doesn't mean toxic in the unsafe sense. He means toxic in terms of, it's not good for your body. He means it's not the natural way every species on earth has consumed this food for thousands of years.

gojomo 19y ago

See also Art Devany's writing, at <http://www.arthurdevany.com/evolutionary_fitness/> http://www.arthurdevany.com/evolutionary_fitness/>. He sometimes (but not always) refers in his blog entries to recent supporting research for the 'paleolithic' diet ideal. There's a lot of similarity to 'low-carb' diets that have been popular. An overview of DeVany's health outlook is in the essay, <http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff/images/RevisedEssay.pdf> http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff/images/RevisedEssay.pdf.... Interestingly, in DeVany's view, endurance running (as in a marathon) is a very bad thing for long-term health.

paul 19y ago

I've seen claims like this a lot: "There are races of people who are all slim, who are stronger and faster than us. They all have straight teeth and perfect eyesight. Arthritis, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, stroke, depression, schizophrenia and cancer are absolute rarities for them. These people are the last 84 tribes of hunter-gatherers in the world." Is that actually true though? It seems like the sort of thing that should be easy to verify or disprove. Whether it's actually caused by diet would be harder to prove, but if these people really are free of all those health problems, that would be quite remarkable and should be studied more carefully.

davidw 19y ago
Well, to some degree it may be true because if you are afflicted with something nasty, you die, quickly. That, and not living a sedentary lifestyle are two things that would leave the survivors pretty healthy.
nostrademons 19y ago
Dunno if it's true, but Jared Diamond made that claim around 20 years ago: http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j.htm http://www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_worst_mistake_diamond_j.... I did find a couple peer-reviewed journal articles that seem to support the claim: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/71/3/665.pdf http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/71/3/665.pdf http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/353 http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/353 http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Meat%20Paradox%20Final.pdf http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Meat%20Paradox%20Final.... http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=GqvJhxyHByhpzP150RJfbCk1xNSl1KYD4SRC90lmd2nLSBYTLNSV!933079477?docId=5001672949 http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=GqvJhxyH...
Shooter 19y ago
There is a really good book out right now called "Healthy at 100" by John Robbins that speaks to this very subject. It looks at several cultures that tend to have a larger % of HEALTHY centenarians, such as the Okinawans and Hunzans. It looks at what they eat, how they live, etc. It is good because he acknowledges the self-reporting errors in such studies ("Yeah, dude, I'm 110 years old!") and the impact of physical activity and social bonds on longevity, etc. John Robbins is biased (toward vegetarianism/veganism), but his bias is based on sound principles (science, self-experience, environmental impact, ethics, etc.) The book is not preachy or anything, though. His other books are also really good. Especially if you're interested in the food industry, animal cruelty, nutrition and disease, etc. He's a very interesting guy. He walked away from the Baskin-Robbins fortune to live a simpler and healthier life after his dad and uncle (Robbins and Baskin, respectively) both died of heart disease from eating too much of their own product. His one room, self-built cabin with second-hand furniture was featured on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" and it became one of their most requested shows, to everyone's surprise. He's a pretty inspiring guy.

Shooter 19y ago

One of my first successful start-ups was software that helps make sense of the 35,000+ medical studies that are published each year. (The software helps find design flaws, does cohort analysis, helps summarize results, etc.) During that experience, I became very interested in nutrition research as a hobby. I basically learned that things I grew up eating were unbelievably bad for me. (I grew up drinking milk, eating meals centered around meat, with lots of refined, fried and sugary ingredients. Good old Southern cooking and Standard American Diet.) I also learned that much of what we are taught ("Milk for strong bones") is complete bullshit when you actually read the studies. Milk is really for osteoporosis and breast cancer. We sold that company, and I stopped seriously reading on the subject. Recently, illnesses in my family (cancer and autoimmune diseases) have caused me to get into the subject again to an even greater degree. I've also experimented with my own diet for the last several years and I've arrived at a very different conclusion than this fellow. There are tons of people that have an almost religious agenda about pushing specific diets. They are usually well-intentioned...they just really want to believe they are right. They publish pseudo-scientific articles like this one that have just enough logic in them to seduce people into believing them. The media is also horrible about publishing sensational (but poorly analyzed) nutrition research. They flip-flop their headlines so much ("Coffee Can Cure X", then "Coffee Causes X Cancer") that people finally just give up on trying to understand nutrition and they just continue eating the crap that they have always eaten. Which is amazingly sad, because proper nutrition is really the best medicine on earth. I LOOOOOOOVE steak and ice cream, but a vegetarian/vegan diet has been shown in almost every study to be a more healthful diet in every respect. And the studies that fail to show that are usually flawed and/or underwritten by industry trade groups. There is no "perfect diet" for everyone...there will always be corner cases. Some people with specific genetic predispositions SHOULD avoid grains altogether. Apart from gluten sensitivity, there is the issue of molecular mimicry and genetic autoimmune issues, etc. Modern people are dying of heart disease, cancer and strokes, though. Those illnesses are linked to higher consumption of meat (Paleo-coronary, anyone?), dairy, sugar, cooking oil, and refined foods. We are NOT dying of starvation, hypothermia, or tooth loss - which were probably some of the more pressing concerns in the paleolithic era. We are also living 2-4 times longer than our ancestors, on average, so we have entirely different concerns. This is really a fascinating area of research...I've noticed that tons of computer hackers are also very interested in nutrition and body/diet hacks.