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T-Mobile iPhone goes from myth to reality: $580, but no contract
- zaphoyd 14y agoThis is getting too complicated. :( Does anyone have a good link for which iPhone/iPad models work on each technology (HSPA+/LTE) in each tmobile market?
- rusher81572 14y agoBut all this will end up being the same thing right? I paid $199 for the iphone with Verizon. T-mobile will charge $99. I looked at the plans and it is better to go with verizon because they have a better tethering plan and better coverage and service. T-mobile's unlimited plan allows 250MB ~ 500MB or tethering only.
- throwaway1979 14y agoI'm currently with T-mobile. They started charging for tethering recently and this is making me want to switch. Their tethering charges seem insane since I plan to tether once a month or so.
- toomuchtodo 14y agoI use a Galaxy Nexus on T-Mobile; I don't pay for tethering, and they only kick you back on HTTP connections if you're not paying for it (DPI/Layer 7). I just use HTTPS for everything when I tether my MBAir to my phone.
- jordanthoms 14y agoOr use a ssh tunnel/VPN.
- dangrossman 14y agoInstall a user-agent switcher extension/plugin and tell your browser to identify as an Android mobile or some other phone. T-Mobile only throws up the "please pay for hotspot" paywall if they detect a desktop browser.
- cheald 14y agoDownside: You get mobile-oriented websites from apps that do user agent detection.
- revelation 14y agoThats legal for a mobile carrier in the US? Can the USPS open letters and charge for lewd content?
- cbr 14y agoLetters have laws that special-case them.
- revelation 14y agoThat may be the case today, but I hardly doubt it was the original intent. They just protected letters because it was the only means of long-distance or written communication back then.
- smackfu 14y agoThe difference here is that the subsidy is explicit and optional and limited in time.
- NoPiece 14y agoIn the plan the article outlines, you pay T-Mobile $20 a month for 24 months to pay off the phone. On one hand it is better because because you can leave anytime and the cots are clear, but on the other, it looks a lot like a two year subsidized plan.
- toomuchtodo 14y agoThat's the glass is half empty view. The other view is your're saving money by being given an interest-free loan to purchase the phone.
- NoPiece 14y agoBut isn't it the same with a two-year subsidized phone plan? You pay a little up front, and a little extra each month. Again, kudos to T-Mobile for making the costs transparent, but I don't see how it is substantially different.
- reaganing 14y agoWell, after the two years, you're T-Mobile bill goes down by ~$20/line a month while your bill on the other carriers stay the same. This assumes, of course, that you don't buy a new phone and start the process all over again.
- ryanhuff 14y agoAs long as they un-bundle the price of the phone from the price of the plans, consumers win.
- NoPiece 14y agoBut wouldn't you say they are just un-bundling it into a separate line item on your bill? You still pay $20 a month for 2 years. I really do appreciate the transparency, but I'd still make a choice based on overall cost.
- reaganing 14y agoYeah, there's not much saving for me either. It'll cost $200 less over the course of two years if I go with 2 lines and T-Mobile's unlimited data plan (compared to the 2 lines and 6GB share everything plan I have from Verizon). But, as you say, the Verizon plan lets tethering be as much as that xGB as you want. And for me, T-Mobile only offers very slow 2G service in my area while I get LTE from Verizon. After those first two years, you do start to save real money ($40 every month, in my case), but that assumes you don't then upgrade to the latest iPhone or whatever and start all over again.
- MatthewPhillips 14y agoI really hope transparent pricing takes off in mobile. When consumers see the true cost of the device they are buying, manufacturers are going to have to compete on price. Which is awesome. I think what T-Mobile is doing here is pretty brillant. Their biggest obstacle is that consumers don't care if the iPhone really costs $600 when all they see is the $199. But they've managed to find a way that makes the upfront costs significantly lower at only a slight bump to their monthly rates. I think this has a chance of working, but I worry that T-Mobile doesn't have the muscle to push other carriers into doing something similar.
- potatolicious 14y agoI think T-Mo will be fine - they are still offering subsidization for customers who want it, and it's no more expensive than the competition.
- jcastro 14y agoIt's hard to break the mental model of subsidies. As an example: Last month my wife dropped her old phone and it broke, and I got her a Nexus 4 for $299 and we signed up for simplemobile (which is a Tmobile MVNO) for about $90 a month for the both of us. Our previous bill from Tmo was $130 a month, a full $40 more AND on contract. Since it took a few days to wait for the Nexus she was asking "Why don't we just go to the store and get the free phones instead? Why spend all this money on a fancy phone?" I'm glad tmo is doing this, but I think they will need to market it in such a way that it is obvious to consumers that they will save money in the long run.
- enjo 14y agoNexus 4 + t-mobile off contract is just fantastic. I knocked $50/month off of my monthly bill from Verizon (and got more in return). The thing pays for itself in 6 months.
- ISL 14y agoI now pay less for voice+data with Ting than I did for voice+text, with an employer discount, on Verizon. Furthermore, the phone (refurb Optimus S) is so inexpensive, I don't have to worry about destroying it. Sensible pricing is starting to win.
- taopao 14y agoGood news for Android users too, they no longer have to subsidize the $400 that Apple demanded from carriers.
- thedrbrian 14y agoDidn't they get a phone in return ?
- tanzam75 14y ago> Didn't they get a phone in return ? They got a $400 Android phone. They could've gotten a $600 iPhone without paying any more money. But T-Mobile is not subsidizing the iPhone. If you want an iPhone, then you have to pay more than people who buy Androids phones. If T-Mobile succeeds, this will be a serious setback for Apple. The other carriers will have to respond if they start seeing defections. I'm surprised that Apple is even allowing this. T-Mobile is the smallest of the four national US carriers. The additional customers from T-Mobile can't be worth the risk of losing an advantageous market structure ...
- henrikschroder 14y ago"This is an important day for people who love their iPhone but can’t stand the pain other carriers put them through to own one," Buy an unlocked one, then, and be completely free to do whatever you want?
- smackfu 14y agoCompletely free to pay off the phone subsidy that you aren't even using. It's like buying your phone twice.
- testing12341234 14y agoVirgin Mobile[0] (Sprint's pay as you go provider) has the iphone 4S for $450, with unlimited text/data[1] plans starting at $35/mo. [0] http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/iphone-phones/ http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/iphone-phone... [1] Where unlimited data really means 2.5GB at full speed, and then 256KBps afterwards. edit: Uses Sprint not Verizon
- rucker 14y agoVirgin actually uses Sprint's network. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Mobile_USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Mobile_USA
- testing12341234 14y agoThanks for the correction, I've updated the original.
- CrazedGeek 14y agoAnd where "full speed" means "limited to Sprint's comparatively weak 3G speeds or spotty 4G coverage". (Not being able to stream a 360p YouTube video on 3G is kind of a pain.)
- ConstantineXVI 14y agoiPhones don't support WiMAX at all; the 4[s] on Sprint/Virgin will only ever hit EVDO. There's a reason Sprint and Verizon were so much faster to market with WiMAX and LTE vs. AT&T and T-Mobile; EVDO doesn't age nearly as well as HSPA. (IIRC, EVDO was much earlier to market itself.)
- Aloha 14y agoEVDO was just an card change on the existing base station hardware, it meant in many cases no additional backhaul even on sprint the issue is excessively full backhaul - not Radio Access Network issues.
- melvinmt 14y ago> The iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 will obviously not work on LTE, but they will function on T-Mobile's "4G" HSPA+ network. I've been using my unlocked European iPhone 4 for 2 years at T-mobile now because it's the only GSM carrier that has reasonable plans. But while my plan includes unlimited data (awesome) I have a slow EDGE connection 90% of the time (not so awesome). There are some spots (Concord, San Jose) where I magically can get 3G but never in SF or any of the other areas I frequently am. So, I'm wondering if this statement is accurate and something's going to change in their coverage.
- dublinben 14y agoThis crowsourced site shows where T-Mobile has high speed 4G on the band you need. http://www.airportal.de/ http://www.airportal.de/
- vpeters25 14y agoT-Mobile has been upgrading their network to provide "4G" in the 1900 Mhz band which makes their 4G compatible with any 3G capable AT&T smartphone. Oddly, San Francisco appears to have been upgraded already (http://blog.t-mobile.com/2012/11/20/t-mobile-enhances-coverage-in-10-new-metro-areas-just-in-time-for-holiday-travel http://blog.t-mobile.com/2012/11/20/t-mobile-enhances-covera...) I have an android phone just switched to T-mobile here in DFW, I get 3G and HSPA speeds at work, but EDGE at home.
- jordanthoms 14y agoI get good coverage in most parts of SF, I've seen speeds around 15mbit, usually at least 5-6. But then you hit areas where it just sucks and you get basically no coverage at all, like my apartment. :(
- enjo 14y agoReference point: I get fantastic coverage in Denver on t-mobiles HSPA+ network.
- mtgx 14y agoSo what's really different with their new plans? Just that they are trying to educate people that phones' subsidies are included in the 2 year contract price? If they are trying to do that to get people to buy phones at full cost upfront instead, I guess that's fine, if that's indeed their strategy. But if they are just going to promote their $99 phones with 2 year "installments" - then nothing has changed, and their "un-carrier" marketing is invalid.
- cheald 14y agoThere's not a whole lot new here - T-Mobile has long given discounts for off-contract plans without a phone subsidy. They've just figured out that it can set them apart in the mobile space, and are pushing it as a result. I think it's a brilliant move, but it's going to hinge on whether people can get past the increased initial cost of the phone. For the past several years, I've been buying my phones outright (Nexus devices) and using them on T-Mobile for $20/month less than I'd pay on-contract. It ends up being a better deal financially, and I have the freedom to upgrade my device any time I want. They're going all-in on that now and reworking all their service towards that model. Right now, I pay $40/mo for 750 minutes/unlimited text/unlimited data, and am using a Nexus 4 ($350 from Google) with the plan. Compare to something like a Verizon prepaid plan with unlimited minutes/text and 2GB of data for $70/month. Even with a "free" Verizon phone, at the 12-month mark, the T-Mobile plan is less expensive, and continues to be so thereafter.
- Osiris 14y agoYou can come in with your own phone and not pay anything. That means you could buy a used phone online or bring an old phone from another carrier. Or, after the two years is up, your monthly price drops by $20 so you're saving money by keeping your old phone instead of upgrading. I think there are a lot of advantages to this.
- tanzam75 14y agoIf T-Mobile is successful, this will have far-reaching effects on the industry. Given the choice between a $20 price drop and a new phone, how many people will insist on that new phone? Given a $40 gap between T-Mobile and ($20 price differential + $20 subsidy differential), what will happen to T-Mobile's churn rates vis-a-vis the subsidized-plan carriers? If they can force the other carriers to respond, then this will have benefits for everyone in the US who has a cellphone.
- pisarzp 14y agoUS carriers were give too much power. I'm surprising that government doesn't want to intervene. There are virtually no pre-paid offers, which are immensely popular elsewhere in the world. They are also the best way for people to control in flexible way how much they spend on mobiles. For US vs rest of the world price comparison: I spent 1 week in SF last year, and was shocked to spend $60 for cheapest SIM card with data (it was T-mobile AFAIR). In UK (and all other EU countries) you can get plenty of minutes and unlimited data for under $25
- wmf 14y agoDoesn't every US carrier have a prepaid brand?
- GFischer 14y agoThere are plenty of threads with comparisons on Hacker News every time this comes out, but yes. Here's an example of prior discussion and prices: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4342617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4342617
- bajsejohannes 14y agoI think this will be my next phone, but I don't understand why I can't just pay for the phone up front. I like my transactions to be over and done as soon as possible. If that makes it cheaper as well, that's a nice bonus.
- jyrkesh 14y agoActually, with these new plans, T-Mobile allows you to pay the whole cost upfront if you want.[1] But with time value of money and all that, I don't see why you would want to, especially considering they're giving you a loan at 0% APR. That also means, though, that it's not any cheaper for you to pay upfront. They just take that full price, subtract out your down payment, and divide by 24 months. Also, what they're not telling you is that you need to have good credit to get those super-low down payments. For those with mediocre credit, they might charge up to 50% of the cost of the phone for money down.[2] [1] http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/?features=371e5c4a-3dc6-4404-86d0-c59f8d8baa3b http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/?features=371e5c4a-3dc6-... ("or pay in full today at checkout") [2] Same link as above: "0% APR On Approved Credit for well-qualified buyer."
- arrrg 14y agoYou could also just buy the unlocked phone directly from Apple. It’s $70 more but it’s unlocked immediately – instead of after you paid it off – meaning you can switch plans at any time. (Though currently that doesn’t make all that much sense in the US.)
- bajsejohannes 14y agoWait, what? This iphone is locked for two years? How is that "no contract"? It's seems you are right [1], and I guess it makes sense, otherwise there would be no reason not to get your unlocked iphone from t-mobile. I actually just wanted an iphone with a t-mobile plan but without a contract. T-mobile's pages are surprisingly hard to navigate, so I could find a way to just get a plan. Maybe I should look further. [1] http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/03/26/t-mobile-gets-iphone-5-99-99-up-front-with-no-annual-contract-starting-april-12th/ http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/03/26/t-mobile-gets-iphone-...
- bparsons 14y agoThis is a pricing model where Android devices will start gaining serious ground. When the average consumer compares a Nexus 4 ($309) to an iPhone5 ($600) and starts looking at closely at the specs, the brand loyalty will quickly start eroding. Competition will be based less on marketing and more on the devices specs and pricing.
- sivanmz 14y agoIt would be more realistic to compare the iPhone with the Galaxy, which is also sold for profit. The Nexus 4 is sold at a loss or barely break even, following the same model as Amazon's Kindle line. It's a class of devices sold using a different business model, regardless of Android. It remains to be seen whether these can be manufactured at scale--it costs to commit to large scale production, which can be seen in LG's inability to deliver Nexus 4 devices at launch. And it is also doubtful that they can remain competitive over time. Other loss making devices such as game consoles don't see frequent hardware revisions.
- alimoeeny 14y agoIn all honesty, I don't know why people are "so much" hate contracts? You know, I need the service anyway and in all likely hood I stay on the same carrier for two years, why "so much" hate?
- alimoeeny 14y agoI understand that, freedom is always better, but what I see is the dislike of contracts is not proportional to the reality of contracts discomfort. You can always buy yourself out of the contract.
- imgabe 14y agoIt's the fact that "subsidized phone + 2 year contract" ends up costing you more money than "full price phone + no contract". Yes, you are in all likelihood going to be paying for some phone service or another for the next two years. Would you rather be paying $130 a month or $50 a month?
- Karunamon 14y agoRationally they work out in your interest anyways - such shenanigans as price hikes and whatnot are disallowed under contract. If they change the rate or the service, you get out of your contract for free. As a result, most carriers don't mess with their contracted customers. The fact I'm on contract with Verizon right now is the only reason I still have unlimited data. (Though with their prices, you can bet I'm jumping to Ting or similar the freaking nanosecond it expires).