4 ms·

This is actually kind of in line with Republican beliefs. Small government and less federal interference.

pyre 14y ago
Except when it comes to legislating religion, fighting the war on drugs, increasing defence spending/budget, etc... The "small government" idea is almost just a talking point now for the Republicans (Note: I realize that some Republicans are truer to those values tha nothers).
- SkyMarshal 14y ago
  Yup, I used to believe it until the Bush administration drove up the deficit more than any Dem administration ever had and all but the Tea Party gave him a pass. The GOP pays lip service to the idea, but they are anything but small government.
  - twoodfin 14y ago
    I have a hard time believing that accurately describes the evolution of your viewpoint. For one, there was no Tea Party during the Bush administration. That term and the associated movement, such as it is, didn't come into broad use until early 2009. For another, the final Federal deficit pre-debt crisis in 2007 was a mere $158B and had been steadily trending downward since the height of the previous recession five years earlier. Now we're four years past the peak of the last recession and deficits are routinely $1T+. At least the GOP occasionally cares about spending discipline: Even Bush took his second term pledge to halve the deficit seriously. All the while Democrats were chiding the GOP for not spending enough, and today they describe a small cut in spending growth in apocalyptic terms.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      > For another, the final Federal deficit pre-debt crisis in 2007 was a mere $158B and had been steadily trending downward since the height of the previous recession five years earlier. Now we're four years past the peak of the last recession and deficits are routinely $1T+. I'm tired of these freaking lies. Debt per GDP shot way up under Bush and didn't stop shooting up at basically the same slope until after 2009. The intellectual dishonesty on the right is absolutely amazing. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html > Even Bush took his second term pledge to halve the deficit seriously. No he didn't. http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/us_deficit http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/us_deficit Notice any trends? Really, why the unfounded Obama hate?
      - twoodfin 14y ago
        Where does the name "Obama" appear in my comment? I certainly don't hate the president, but I wish he would take a few pages from Bill Clinton's playbook. There's a guy who made divided government work.
        AnthonyMouse 14y ago
        >There's a guy who made divided government work. There's a guy who signed DOMA, CALEA, the NET Act, the DMCA, negotiated the WIPO treaties that require other countries to pass DMCA-like laws, etc. He ends up looking like a great president because of the inevitable comparison to his successor, but he was most certainly not infallible.
    - SkyMarshal 14y ago
      In addition to what Sean pointed out, the Tea Party effectively started in 2007, as a small group of right-leaning folks on a couple of investing forums equally disgusted with both political parties. They had the idea to mail tea bags to Congress then as a form of protest, but it wasn't until two years later that that movement culminated in the official Tea Party. Some of these early people were later alienated as it quickly became more partisan.
      - twoodfin 14y ago
        So if the Tea Party started in 2007 as a small group disgusted with both parties, how does your original comment (not your later meaning-reversing edit!) make sense?
        SkyMarshal 14y ago
        The establishment GOP gave Bush a pass on his deficit spending at the time. Only the nascent Tea Party criticized him for it then. Hence I don't believe the establishment GOP anymore when they complain about Obama's deficit spending. One, it's self-serving not principled, and two, odds are if they win back power they'll deficit spend just like Bush and Obama, albeit while attempting to obfuscate it with artful accounting tricks (like spinning cutting ~$100B from the deficit over 10 years as a win). They had their chance. They blew it, big.
    - drzaiusapelord 14y ago
      >At least the GOP occasionally cares about spending discipline Now pull the other one: http://fairandunbalancedblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/three-charts-to-email-to-your-right.html http://fairandunbalancedblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/three-char... Bush spent like a drunken sailor. War isn't cheap and the decision to go to Iraq was rightfully criticized by the left at the time and we were proven right that, no, there aren't any WMDs in Iraq. Certainly Saddam was no threat to the US. I hate how HN has become such a GOP/libertarian hangout. Now you guys just make up your own reality.
      - twoodfin 14y ago
        Which part of the giant spike in the deficit and spending graphs in 2008 did President Obama not support? Why did he argue to maintain spending at those levels for four years? If 2007 was "drunken sailor" level spending, surely you'd agree to a budget with that level of spending + population growth/inflation? That's way below where we are now. I agree that Bush spent more than was prudent. But it's nuts to think that's an argument that President Obama hasn't demonstrated much worse spending discipline. Stimulus levels were sold as a way to jumpstart the economy, not as a permanent level hundreds of billions higher than what Bush ever dreamed of spending. You can argue that we still need that level of spending, but you shouldn't argue that somehow it's not historically high. Who's arguing for lower spending now? Who was arguing for it in 1995 (and got it!)? Do you really think if the GOP could snap its fingers and pass something like the Ryan budget they wouldn't? Where's the comparable low-spending Democratic budget? Maybe high spending and/or high taxes are great things, but when it comes to spending discipline, right now, there is a difference in the parties' agendas.
      - drzaiusapelord 14y ago
        So wait, one guy walked into office with a budget surplus, started 2 foolish wars, did tax cuts without proper service cuts, and threw us deep into the debt and you're criticizing the guy who tried to get us out of it via a stimulus which probably saved our economy from a depression? Oh ok.

pyre 14y ago

Except when it comes to legislating religion, fighting the war on drugs, increasing defence spending/budget, etc... The "small government" idea is almost just a talking point now for the Republicans (Note: I realize that some Republicans are truer to those values tha nothers).

SkyMarshal 14y ago
Yup, I used to believe it until the Bush administration drove up the deficit more than any Dem administration ever had and all but the Tea Party gave him a pass. The GOP pays lip service to the idea, but they are anything but small government.
- twoodfin 14y ago
  I have a hard time believing that accurately describes the evolution of your viewpoint. For one, there was no Tea Party during the Bush administration. That term and the associated movement, such as it is, didn't come into broad use until early 2009. For another, the final Federal deficit pre-debt crisis in 2007 was a mere $158B and had been steadily trending downward since the height of the previous recession five years earlier. Now we're four years past the peak of the last recession and deficits are routinely $1T+. At least the GOP occasionally cares about spending discipline: Even Bush took his second term pledge to halve the deficit seriously. All the while Democrats were chiding the GOP for not spending enough, and today they describe a small cut in spending growth in apocalyptic terms.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    > For another, the final Federal deficit pre-debt crisis in 2007 was a mere $158B and had been steadily trending downward since the height of the previous recession five years earlier. Now we're four years past the peak of the last recession and deficits are routinely $1T+. I'm tired of these freaking lies. Debt per GDP shot way up under Bush and didn't stop shooting up at basically the same slope until after 2009. The intellectual dishonesty on the right is absolutely amazing. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html > Even Bush took his second term pledge to halve the deficit seriously. No he didn't. http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/us_deficit http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/us_deficit Notice any trends? Really, why the unfounded Obama hate?
    - twoodfin 14y ago
      Where does the name "Obama" appear in my comment? I certainly don't hate the president, but I wish he would take a few pages from Bill Clinton's playbook. There's a guy who made divided government work.
      - AnthonyMouse 14y ago
        >There's a guy who made divided government work. There's a guy who signed DOMA, CALEA, the NET Act, the DMCA, negotiated the WIPO treaties that require other countries to pass DMCA-like laws, etc. He ends up looking like a great president because of the inevitable comparison to his successor, but he was most certainly not infallible.
  - SkyMarshal 14y ago
    In addition to what Sean pointed out, the Tea Party effectively started in 2007, as a small group of right-leaning folks on a couple of investing forums equally disgusted with both political parties. They had the idea to mail tea bags to Congress then as a form of protest, but it wasn't until two years later that that movement culminated in the official Tea Party. Some of these early people were later alienated as it quickly became more partisan.
    - twoodfin 14y ago
      So if the Tea Party started in 2007 as a small group disgusted with both parties, how does your original comment (not your later meaning-reversing edit!) make sense?
      - SkyMarshal 14y ago
        The establishment GOP gave Bush a pass on his deficit spending at the time. Only the nascent Tea Party criticized him for it then. Hence I don't believe the establishment GOP anymore when they complain about Obama's deficit spending. One, it's self-serving not principled, and two, odds are if they win back power they'll deficit spend just like Bush and Obama, albeit while attempting to obfuscate it with artful accounting tricks (like spinning cutting ~$100B from the deficit over 10 years as a win). They had their chance. They blew it, big.
  - drzaiusapelord 14y ago
    >At least the GOP occasionally cares about spending discipline Now pull the other one: http://fairandunbalancedblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/three-charts-to-email-to-your-right.html http://fairandunbalancedblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/three-char... Bush spent like a drunken sailor. War isn't cheap and the decision to go to Iraq was rightfully criticized by the left at the time and we were proven right that, no, there aren't any WMDs in Iraq. Certainly Saddam was no threat to the US. I hate how HN has become such a GOP/libertarian hangout. Now you guys just make up your own reality.
    - twoodfin 14y ago
      Which part of the giant spike in the deficit and spending graphs in 2008 did President Obama not support? Why did he argue to maintain spending at those levels for four years? If 2007 was "drunken sailor" level spending, surely you'd agree to a budget with that level of spending + population growth/inflation? That's way below where we are now. I agree that Bush spent more than was prudent. But it's nuts to think that's an argument that President Obama hasn't demonstrated much worse spending discipline. Stimulus levels were sold as a way to jumpstart the economy, not as a permanent level hundreds of billions higher than what Bush ever dreamed of spending. You can argue that we still need that level of spending, but you shouldn't argue that somehow it's not historically high. Who's arguing for lower spending now? Who was arguing for it in 1995 (and got it!)? Do you really think if the GOP could snap its fingers and pass something like the Ryan budget they wouldn't? Where's the comparable low-spending Democratic budget? Maybe high spending and/or high taxes are great things, but when it comes to spending discipline, right now, there is a difference in the parties' agendas.
    - drzaiusapelord 14y ago
      So wait, one guy walked into office with a budget surplus, started 2 foolish wars, did tax cuts without proper service cuts, and threw us deep into the debt and you're criticizing the guy who tried to get us out of it via a stimulus which probably saved our economy from a depression? Oh ok.