4 ms·

I'm confused? SendGrid didn't fire the guy. So, by boycotting the SendGrid, but not the company that fired the guy, the problem is being offended and speaking

I'm confused? SendGrid didn't fire the guy. So, by boycotting the SendGrid, but not the company that fired the guy, the problem is being offended and speaking up, not the firing.

ratat 14y ago
The problem is publicly posting a creepily-taken photograph of two friends at a conference, with entirely baseless slanderous claims of something you allegedly overheard them say to each other.
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  Baseless? PyCon disagrees, and apparently, so do the two friends. http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop... So, unless PyCon is lying, the claims were verified. If they had not been, you'd have a point. If she had made the claims, but never went to PyCon and resolved it properly, you'd be dead on.
  - integraton 14y ago
    PyCon's response was appropriate. SendGrid's representative's response was not.
    - jasonlotito 14y ago
      What response? Speaking up?
      - integraton 14y ago
        Speaking up to the individuals or to PyCon staff would have been very appropriate. Public shaming given the circumstances was not.
        jasonlotito 14y ago
        > Speaking up to the individuals or to PyCon staff would have been very appropriate. Speaking up to the individuals isn't always the easiest in a situation like that. It's easy to make that suggestion sitting behind a computer screen. So, she spoke up in the best way she knew how. In the end, the result between the 3 parties (the 2 guys, PyCon, and her) ended amicably. http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop... > Public shaming given the circumstances was not. Well, neither was their actions. More so, in fact. That she reacted poorly is indicative of the seriousness of their actions. Sitting comfortably at home in our chairs it's easy to dismiss this as nothing. But it's not.
        integraton 14y ago
        PyCon attendee procedure for handling harassment: https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-incidents/ https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-i... "Report the harassment incident (preferably in writing) to a conference staff member - all reports are confidential...The staff is well informed on how to deal with the incident and how to further proceed with the situation...Note: Public shaming can be counter-productive to building a strong community. PyCon does not condone nor participate in such actions out of respect."
        jasonlotito 14y ago
        And she reported the incident, in writing. Their note about public shaming, while accurate, is just that: a note.
        camelite 14y ago
        What a bizarrely meaningless statement. "I went to the shop like you asked. That note you left me about wanting milk, while accurate, is just that: a note." It's a procedure for handling harassment. It tells you what to do and what not to do. It's clearly relevant that the procedure was deliberately and knowingly violated.
  - ratat 14y ago
    The claims were verified after the damage was done. My point is that at the time she decided to take this photo (seemingly just after she overheard the statement) the claims were unverified. Had they not been able to verify the claims then it would have been too late.
    - jasonlotito 14y ago
      > Had they not been able to verify the claims then it would have been too late. This is besides the point, as the claims were verified. But, I believe you are wrong. I think if she was found to be lying, the backlash would have been on here. Heck, her claims were verified, and their is still a much strong backlash from the community toward her and SendGrid. I agree. Crying wolf is should not be encouraged. But many times before, people here on HN and elsewhere tell women time and time again to speak up when something happens. Now, when one of them does, she's essentially told to keep quiet and handle it behind the scenes.
      - ratat 14y ago
        >I think if she was found to be lying, the backlash would have been on here. I believe you are wrong. The majority reponse would have been that she was telling the truth and nobody else overheard it.
        jasonlotito 14y ago
        Whereas that's it's been confirmed, there is a backlash against her. So, the key is: make the accusation and don't prove it.
      - camelite 14y ago
        No, she's being to to speak up AND handle it behind the scenes. At what point in this conversation did you forget the fact that an identifiable picture was posted publicly to her 9000 followers?
        jasonlotito 14y ago

I'm confused? SendGrid didn't fire the guy. So, by boycotting the SendGrid, but not the company that fired the guy, the problem is being offended and speaking up, not the firing.

ratat 14y ago

The problem is publicly posting a creepily-taken photograph of two friends at a conference, with entirely baseless slanderous claims of something you allegedly overheard them say to each other.

jasonlotito 14y ago
Baseless? PyCon disagrees, and apparently, so do the two friends. http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop... So, unless PyCon is lying, the claims were verified. If they had not been, you'd have a point. If she had made the claims, but never went to PyCon and resolved it properly, you'd be dead on.
- integraton 14y ago
  PyCon's response was appropriate. SendGrid's representative's response was not.
  - jasonlotito 14y ago
    What response? Speaking up?
    - integraton 14y ago
      Speaking up to the individuals or to PyCon staff would have been very appropriate. Public shaming given the circumstances was not.
      - jasonlotito 14y ago
        > Speaking up to the individuals or to PyCon staff would have been very appropriate. Speaking up to the individuals isn't always the easiest in a situation like that. It's easy to make that suggestion sitting behind a computer screen. So, she spoke up in the best way she knew how. In the end, the result between the 3 parties (the 2 guys, PyCon, and her) ended amicably. http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop... > Public shaming given the circumstances was not. Well, neither was their actions. More so, in fact. That she reacted poorly is indicative of the seriousness of their actions. Sitting comfortably at home in our chairs it's easy to dismiss this as nothing. But it's not.
        integraton 14y ago
        PyCon attendee procedure for handling harassment: https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-incidents/ https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-i... "Report the harassment incident (preferably in writing) to a conference staff member - all reports are confidential...The staff is well informed on how to deal with the incident and how to further proceed with the situation...Note: Public shaming can be counter-productive to building a strong community. PyCon does not condone nor participate in such actions out of respect."
        jasonlotito 14y ago
        And she reported the incident, in writing. Their note about public shaming, while accurate, is just that: a note.
        camelite 14y ago
        What a bizarrely meaningless statement. "I went to the shop like you asked. That note you left me about wanting milk, while accurate, is just that: a note." It's a procedure for handling harassment. It tells you what to do and what not to do. It's clearly relevant that the procedure was deliberately and knowingly violated.
- ratat 14y ago
  The claims were verified after the damage was done. My point is that at the time she decided to take this photo (seemingly just after she overheard the statement) the claims were unverified. Had they not been able to verify the claims then it would have been too late.
  - jasonlotito 14y ago
    > Had they not been able to verify the claims then it would have been too late. This is besides the point, as the claims were verified. But, I believe you are wrong. I think if she was found to be lying, the backlash would have been on here. Heck, her claims were verified, and their is still a much strong backlash from the community toward her and SendGrid. I agree. Crying wolf is should not be encouraged. But many times before, people here on HN and elsewhere tell women time and time again to speak up when something happens. Now, when one of them does, she's essentially told to keep quiet and handle it behind the scenes.
    - ratat 14y ago
      >I think if she was found to be lying, the backlash would have been on here. I believe you are wrong. The majority reponse would have been that she was telling the truth and nobody else overheard it.
      - jasonlotito 14y ago
        Whereas that's it's been confirmed, there is a backlash against her. So, the key is: make the accusation and don't prove it.
    - camelite 14y ago
      No, she's being to to speak up AND handle it behind the scenes. At what point in this conversation did you forget the fact that an identifiable picture was posted publicly to her 9000 followers?
      - jasonlotito 14y ago