16 ms·

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize.

by mnicole 14y ago

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize. As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this is not demeaning to women and her reaction has nothing to do with supporting the future of this industry and the women who partake in it. In fact I'd say just the opposite. Just a few weeks ago we had a similar conversation when Torvalds replied to a woman with the term circlejerk (in regards to the argument they were having) and a few people raised their pitchforks thinking it was offensive in the context of her gender. It has nothing to do with gender. Taking the photo and posting it for her global audience was just too much. The appropriate course of action would have been to show the picture privately to staff and have them talk to the parties involved individually and maybe bring everyone together to talk about it after-the-fact. I can't even fathom losing my job over something that I know I have made jokes about in the past, jokes that may have a juvenile slant, but that I thought would be acceptable because I was in the company of people who could - if not appreciate them - at least understand what I meant by them, and especially understand that it wasn't sexual. Some jokes are not okay in the presence of certain people or during certain times. This was not one of them, and again I'm so sorry for what you're dealing with because of it. Best wishes to you.

chrisivens 14y ago
Seems this youtube clip here is totally inappropriate too then? See 1:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI
- mnicole 14y ago
  What?
  - gutnor 14y ago
    I was wondering aswell - around 2:00, there is a joke about dongle. I guess the interesting bit the parent wanted to highlight is that a similar joke to the one that offended Adria, was showed on public television.
    - mnicole 14y ago
      Right, I was confused why he thought I would be offended by that when my point was that the joke was a non-issue. That sketch is fantastic and isn't new to me. What I find so silly about this whole thing - which is exactly what the skit helps imply - is that you can hardly even say the word dongle without laughing; you don't even need to know what it really is to see the low-hanging humor in it (no pun intended). It's just one of those words. She'd have an entire magazine spread if she went to some of the gaming-related events I've been to. We were all in 5th grade once, I think a conference for adults can handle that same behavior.
      - chrisivens 14y ago
        Although I commented on the wrong part of the thread, my point was that if we are able to accept a sketch on tv mentioning a dongle in good humour, why is it a sackable offence within earshot of someone? Granted it's toilet humour but who doesn't like that every now and again. Being a programmer, I'd love to have more women in my industry and indeed within my workplace. The problem has been exacerbated by Adria and her knee-jerk reaction to something that should have just been a quick snigger between the two involved and then move on. If I felt I had to tip-toe around any female colleague for fear of being fired for something so innocuous, I think I would change career or work alone. I don't need that kind of attitude. I accept every colleague as an equal and certainly I temper the things I say around some people but I never go out of my way to offend, it's simply not worth it or called for. I guess I hope we all forget about this incident and try to move on and rebuild the damage this has caused. Bring on more women in tech.
        mnicole 14y ago
        You might want to re-read my original post, I agree with everything you just said.
- helloiamnew 14y ago
  And this one is even worse, especially in an educational setting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVA94ZL6e0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVA94ZL6e0 (think of the children!)
zobzu 14y ago
I don't think it has a lot to do with the gender, to be honest, but with the person. And yeah, Adria is what I consider a bad person. Could be male, female, whatever. So, you don't have to apologize either.
- mnicole 14y ago
  Totally with you there. I am a huge fan of Amanda Blum's post on the matter, she really got down to the nitty-gritty of it: don't be a dick, you're ruining it for everyone. I also had the privilege of meeting and speaking to Blum a few times at RailsGirls PDX (which she also helped put together) and she was an absolute pleasure; really cared about the even from beginning to end and set a fantastic mood for the day (and a half) with her enthusiasm. If she said this woman was hard to work with, I believe her.
  - mormy 14y ago
    I agree, Amanda Blum's blogpost is great. Adria did a disservice to other women in IT. Also the whole "Joan of Arc" thing and "I'm fighting for the future of female developers" stuff were hilarious. I don't get how this benefits anybody. How can "I'd fork that guy's repo" be sexist? In which context? "I'd fork that guy/girl" can be, in a way (if you're Adria perhaps), termed sexist/misogynic/misoandric (yeah, lol) but IRL... Only "evangelists", PR and lawyers would do such a thing. I'd said to my GF (yeah, she's a dev too) that I wanna fork her multiple times and I didn't get one slap or my face plastered over the internet... Behaving like a total enabler she laughed and ... She should have reported me, I'd let her know when she wakes up. Or better yet, post my pic on #sexist or something, because that's what sane people do. Now being serious. Using offensive jokes is not appropriate. Using offensive jokes in my crowd is kind of expected. Using them outside my crowd. Big no no. I don't deem sex jokes fall in inappropriate. Sexist/racist/N-ist jokes however do. If someone got offended, I'll apologise. Promptly. Like a SANE PERSON. I don't plaster his/her face over the public 'net. All this was a cold and calculated move that backfired (this time). It has surely done more harm than good. If any good at all. The state in the industry is now much better than it was 10-15 years ago and we should continue driving that forward. Only trust, cooperation and the direct approach in conflicts, not us-versus-them mentality, will drive that change.
Hienrich 14y ago
Burn in hell adria apologist.
- mnicole 14y ago
  The reading comprehension on these new accounts is phenomenal.
  - quoteshimself 14y ago
    Pretty sure all they read was "Don't apologize" and "women" and then made a stupid assumption. Surely no one could read that and come to think you were defending her
quoteshimself 14y ago
You're right on with this. It's hilarious to see all the posts replying to you and saying that you're an adria apologist. Not sure how anyone would conclude that from what you wrote. Thank you for being a reasonable and rational human being who doesn't publicly shame and harm the lives of people over something so small. Hypersensitivity at it's worst.
phpluver 14y ago
This is why I left shitty sendgrid for mailjt. Fuck her and sendgrid. She's not a "developer" she was there for marketing.
ash_2134 14y ago
^ Agree. I just wanted to also add that recently I was speaking with a friend of mine, he is in the process of hiring and he was saying that it's hard because he would like to bring a woman onto the team, but is weary because of past experiences of working with women like Adria. But I really don't feel like this situation is gender related, although it's things like this that make it hard for women to fit into a work environment that is male dominant. I happen to be in the military and have been in a few situations where I'm more or less ignored for safety's sake.
Gloria_Sass 14y ago
I am glad to see I'm not the only woman with this opinion. Frankly, I think mr-hank should file criminal charges, under VAWA section 2261A on stalking, which states that an individual is guilty of stalking if, with intent to harass or intimidate another person, uses the mail, any interactive computer service or electronic communication service or electronic communication system of interstate commerce, or any other facility of interstate or foreign commerce to engage in a course of conduct that causes, attempts to cause, or would be reasonably expected to cause substantial emotional distress to that person. I think it can be reasonably stated that public shaming is intended to cause emotional distress, and mr-hank suffered damages (job loss) as a result, affecting not just himself but the welfare of his family. With the addition of the much-touted nondiscrimination clause, the law should apply equally to his situation as it would to a woman under similar circumstances.
- artfldgr 14y ago
  I think u missed the partvwhere thevlaw is for special people Which is why its not violence against people It says its ok to do this..... Unequal before the law Hec u should see my office after my own affirmative action andrea Passed over for promo despite 30 yrs experience n longest working for company Lies n punishment for aspergers Office is 47 inches x 57 inches Very hot interfering with frtility so wife n i cant have baby Completely isolated from human contact for more than tw years Tia stroke at 48 sitting so cramped Trainee females git desks credenzas raises etc Cant go to court, i have no rights ( as yhe judge told me when an ex took my son) which is another insane story ( faked murder n a bank robbery, but since it was a she i had no rights) I still work here in reasearch computing in one of the worlds top med schools No degree, self taught.... indonesian wife being punished Its systemic and you cant complain OR ELSE So i am justvwaiting to die and hanging on for my wife to be ok ( and a son whou graduated with honors in genetics But he quit as they took his money away so he is accepting a commission in the navy I went to bronx sci... but ya cant prove women are better unless u remove competition and bury it But what can ya do??? My famiky already fled communism n the rest died who didnt We were refugee and poor and i was to succed Dont feel bad... u got off lucky Sue if u can find a place Go on w ur life, dont resent it It will allow her to rot u from inside There is an army of people who care Now i return to a literally dark tiny isolated hole i hope thectime passes fast n god can give my wife what comes Nothing i can do I am told i am priveledged despite being homeless to take classes N homeless in ny is not a picnic... but i did attend barnard baruch (Sis has lots of degrees n still in school..) Good luck sir Be happy God bless
kellyscholey 14y ago
I find this whole situation very frustrating so much so I wrote a blog post about it. It's people like Adria who discourage women to join or take part in our industry. http://lovefromkelly.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/life-as-female-developer.html http://lovefromkelly.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/life-as-female-d...
- karuneshkaushal 14y ago
 (Read your post and thought I would comment here) I am a male. I have worked in 2 small Indian companies (I wouldn't call them startups) over the past 2 years. A year at the first and 6 months at the second. Almost all guys/girls in early 20s (I will be 23 next month). We have a kind of unfriendly-to-women culture here in India, so I thought I would tell you what I think. Though reading about the current saga has made me think if this cultural thing exists here only or... We had a girl in a team of 7-8 developers at my second company, and she was good at work. I have seen a kind of disdain for her as a female colleague, in the sense that her successes were obvious (easy task/project etc) and hence ignored, and her failures (at the milestone level or the occasional short term project) were obvious too, but not ignored between the males (including me to at least some extent). About once a week or so, someone would say some double-meaning thing in her presence (99% unknowingly, or I am too naive), and she would laugh it off mostly, or simply ignore it. This made us respect her more, since she was letting us be ourselves (however stupid we were). I think she made the males like her because of her good work and great nature. When a common friend (same team) asked me if he should get her to moonlight with him on some contracting work, I told him I would love to work with a developer like her. Since this was kind of illegal with our company, so me recommending her meant that I liked her as a developer and trusted her as a fellow professional/person. However, she is just one person. There are many others too, and each of us, male or female or other has the right to think what we think and say what we want. In addition, we have the right to not listen to bullshit from others. The definition of bullshit varies according to the person, just like beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. I appreciate your point of view, but we have to appreciate Adria's point of view and feelings too. If she did not feel right about something, then that was that, and all she did was to get the (accused) guys away/quiet. What happened on the internet after that is, IMHO, a large slugfest, nothing more and nothing less. Lets just change the perspective a bit. I do not smoke, and will not appreciate people smoking near me. So, if you and your friends love smoking and you guys are smoking within a couple feet from me in a public place, I have the right to tell you guys off. If due to some reason, I feel that I should get someone in authority to help, say the police etc., then too I am not in the wrong. Because it might be harmless fun for you and your friends, but it is not the same for me and as a human I have the right to make it right for myself. Yes, I do not like the way girls talk about shopping and little children etc., and I positively dislike the way a lot of them comment (without being mean) on my complexion or my big nose or (if they know me from school) the way I got defeated at judo once within 10 seconds, but I think the whole thing about Adria and the guy(s) got blown out of proportion. Probably because of her decision to take to a fully open medium like twitter. And two people have lost their jobs without too much of an issue.
abentwookie 14y ago
Its simple: When you are in public learn to think before you speak. Its really not that difficult. I have enough sense not just blurt out things that could offend others when I am in public so I don't have these problems.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  > blurt out things that could offend others Do you have a comprehensive list? Is it calibrated to what country or audience you are in, or do you just avoid saying anything that could offend anyone anywhere. I made a joke about corruption once that hit too close to home for the people I was with, if I would have thought harder about where I was I should have kept my mouth shut.
  - abentwookie 14y ago
    Yes, my common sense tells what is appropriate and what isn't in public. You have to keep in mind that every single person has something that they are sensitive about and they usually have a legitimate reason for that. Thew problem is a lot of people don't have a filter between their brain and their mouth. They just say whatever is on their mind without thinking. And this is what can happen when you do that. I basically don't say anything in public that could be offensive to people in general but yes I also take the crowd i'm with into consideration as well, like with your situation. And of course, before anyone says it.... Its not about being "PC" its about not being a douchebag.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      Of course its being PC since this is exactly how PC is defined. You don't get to wish away the label simply because you don't like it, especially when you've just repeated the definition. I can always tell when I'm talking to someone with a strong filter and it always makes me feel uncomfortable. They don't seem genuine, they don't seem honest, they don't seem real. I wonder how they are really like when relaxed with their filters down. What if they really are a douchebag? I've met plenty of people who filter heavily but are still basically sociopaths. I've heard there is now corporate training on how to have a strong filter without letting other people know that you have one, by intentionally and strategically letting out noticeable but forgivable gaffes at certain points to make it appear as if you are genuine.
cocoa_goddess 14y ago
I am totally with you on this. I would have chuckled along with you. I also would have made my own comments too. I worked in the male-dominated worlds of turbine enginrs for 5 years and trucking industry for 7. In those 12 years so many inappropriate things were heard and said but not one was ever directed at anyone specific. I was one to partake in makung those comments and also egged on my co*workers. It was fun and funny. This woman has totally blown an innocent comment way out of proportion.
marden928 14y ago
It really is unfortunate that Adria didn't just reach out to you. I think we can all agree with that. At this point, it's clear to most of us that we all just need to be a bit more human with each other when running around at tech events. It's about intentions, you didn't intend harm; alas, it seems she did (no doubt to a much lesser degree than what actually happened). It's classy to apologize when you think you've upset someone. And if that's how you're going to sleep at night, apologize. What's awful at this point is the amount of hatred going around in regards to this situation. Here we have a sane response to an immature situation. Sine then, there is an army of commenters attacking Adria with hate on your behalf (something I know isn't your fault). People are sending Adria pictures of chopped up bodies with threats that she's next. They're asking for her to be raped, or threatening to do it themselves. She's been called every word in the book, with the worst intentions ever. Seems Adria got her feminist conversation, but not in the way she had intended. There are some really really horrible people out there in internet land.
- mnicole 14y ago
  Hey Marden, I see you're a new account. Just so you know, you actually replied to my reply to mr-hank. :)

by mnicole 14y ago

chrisivens 14y ago

Seems this youtube clip here is totally inappropriate too then? See 1:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI

mnicole 14y ago
What?
- gutnor 14y ago
  I was wondering aswell - around 2:00, there is a joke about dongle. I guess the interesting bit the parent wanted to highlight is that a similar joke to the one that offended Adria, was showed on public television.
  - mnicole 14y ago
    Right, I was confused why he thought I would be offended by that when my point was that the joke was a non-issue. That sketch is fantastic and isn't new to me. What I find so silly about this whole thing - which is exactly what the skit helps imply - is that you can hardly even say the word dongle without laughing; you don't even need to know what it really is to see the low-hanging humor in it (no pun intended). It's just one of those words. She'd have an entire magazine spread if she went to some of the gaming-related events I've been to. We were all in 5th grade once, I think a conference for adults can handle that same behavior.
    - chrisivens 14y ago
      Although I commented on the wrong part of the thread, my point was that if we are able to accept a sketch on tv mentioning a dongle in good humour, why is it a sackable offence within earshot of someone? Granted it's toilet humour but who doesn't like that every now and again. Being a programmer, I'd love to have more women in my industry and indeed within my workplace. The problem has been exacerbated by Adria and her knee-jerk reaction to something that should have just been a quick snigger between the two involved and then move on. If I felt I had to tip-toe around any female colleague for fear of being fired for something so innocuous, I think I would change career or work alone. I don't need that kind of attitude. I accept every colleague as an equal and certainly I temper the things I say around some people but I never go out of my way to offend, it's simply not worth it or called for. I guess I hope we all forget about this incident and try to move on and rebuild the damage this has caused. Bring on more women in tech.
      - mnicole 14y ago
        You might want to re-read my original post, I agree with everything you just said.
helloiamnew 14y ago
And this one is even worse, especially in an educational setting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVA94ZL6e0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVA94ZL6e0 (think of the children!)

zobzu 14y ago

I don't think it has a lot to do with the gender, to be honest, but with the person. And yeah, Adria is what I consider a bad person. Could be male, female, whatever. So, you don't have to apologize either.

mnicole 14y ago
Totally with you there. I am a huge fan of Amanda Blum's post on the matter, she really got down to the nitty-gritty of it: don't be a dick, you're ruining it for everyone. I also had the privilege of meeting and speaking to Blum a few times at RailsGirls PDX (which she also helped put together) and she was an absolute pleasure; really cared about the even from beginning to end and set a fantastic mood for the day (and a half) with her enthusiasm. If she said this woman was hard to work with, I believe her.
- mormy 14y ago
  I agree, Amanda Blum's blogpost is great. Adria did a disservice to other women in IT. Also the whole "Joan of Arc" thing and "I'm fighting for the future of female developers" stuff were hilarious. I don't get how this benefits anybody. How can "I'd fork that guy's repo" be sexist? In which context? "I'd fork that guy/girl" can be, in a way (if you're Adria perhaps), termed sexist/misogynic/misoandric (yeah, lol) but IRL... Only "evangelists", PR and lawyers would do such a thing. I'd said to my GF (yeah, she's a dev too) that I wanna fork her multiple times and I didn't get one slap or my face plastered over the internet... Behaving like a total enabler she laughed and ... She should have reported me, I'd let her know when she wakes up. Or better yet, post my pic on #sexist or something, because that's what sane people do. Now being serious. Using offensive jokes is not appropriate. Using offensive jokes in my crowd is kind of expected. Using them outside my crowd. Big no no. I don't deem sex jokes fall in inappropriate. Sexist/racist/N-ist jokes however do. If someone got offended, I'll apologise. Promptly. Like a SANE PERSON. I don't plaster his/her face over the public 'net. All this was a cold and calculated move that backfired (this time). It has surely done more harm than good. If any good at all. The state in the industry is now much better than it was 10-15 years ago and we should continue driving that forward. Only trust, cooperation and the direct approach in conflicts, not us-versus-them mentality, will drive that change.

Hienrich 14y ago

Burn in hell adria apologist.

mnicole 14y ago
The reading comprehension on these new accounts is phenomenal.
- quoteshimself 14y ago
  Pretty sure all they read was "Don't apologize" and "women" and then made a stupid assumption. Surely no one could read that and come to think you were defending her

quoteshimself 14y ago

You're right on with this. It's hilarious to see all the posts replying to you and saying that you're an adria apologist. Not sure how anyone would conclude that from what you wrote. Thank you for being a reasonable and rational human being who doesn't publicly shame and harm the lives of people over something so small. Hypersensitivity at it's worst.

phpluver 14y ago

This is why I left shitty sendgrid for mailjt. Fuck her and sendgrid. She's not a "developer" she was there for marketing.

ash_2134 14y ago

^ Agree. I just wanted to also add that recently I was speaking with a friend of mine, he is in the process of hiring and he was saying that it's hard because he would like to bring a woman onto the team, but is weary because of past experiences of working with women like Adria. But I really don't feel like this situation is gender related, although it's things like this that make it hard for women to fit into a work environment that is male dominant. I happen to be in the military and have been in a few situations where I'm more or less ignored for safety's sake.

Gloria_Sass 14y ago

I am glad to see I'm not the only woman with this opinion. Frankly, I think mr-hank should file criminal charges, under VAWA section 2261A on stalking, which states that an individual is guilty of stalking if, with intent to harass or intimidate another person, uses the mail, any interactive computer service or electronic communication service or electronic communication system of interstate commerce, or any other facility of interstate or foreign commerce to engage in a course of conduct that causes, attempts to cause, or would be reasonably expected to cause substantial emotional distress to that person. I think it can be reasonably stated that public shaming is intended to cause emotional distress, and mr-hank suffered damages (job loss) as a result, affecting not just himself but the welfare of his family. With the addition of the much-touted nondiscrimination clause, the law should apply equally to his situation as it would to a woman under similar circumstances.

artfldgr 14y ago
I think u missed the partvwhere thevlaw is for special people Which is why its not violence against people It says its ok to do this..... Unequal before the law Hec u should see my office after my own affirmative action andrea Passed over for promo despite 30 yrs experience n longest working for company Lies n punishment for aspergers Office is 47 inches x 57 inches Very hot interfering with frtility so wife n i cant have baby Completely isolated from human contact for more than tw years Tia stroke at 48 sitting so cramped Trainee females git desks credenzas raises etc Cant go to court, i have no rights ( as yhe judge told me when an ex took my son) which is another insane story ( faked murder n a bank robbery, but since it was a she i had no rights) I still work here in reasearch computing in one of the worlds top med schools No degree, self taught.... indonesian wife being punished Its systemic and you cant complain OR ELSE So i am justvwaiting to die and hanging on for my wife to be ok ( and a son whou graduated with honors in genetics But he quit as they took his money away so he is accepting a commission in the navy I went to bronx sci... but ya cant prove women are better unless u remove competition and bury it But what can ya do??? My famiky already fled communism n the rest died who didnt We were refugee and poor and i was to succed Dont feel bad... u got off lucky Sue if u can find a place Go on w ur life, dont resent it It will allow her to rot u from inside There is an army of people who care Now i return to a literally dark tiny isolated hole i hope thectime passes fast n god can give my wife what comes Nothing i can do I am told i am priveledged despite being homeless to take classes N homeless in ny is not a picnic... but i did attend barnard baruch (Sis has lots of degrees n still in school..) Good luck sir Be happy God bless

kellyscholey 14y ago

I find this whole situation very frustrating so much so I wrote a blog post about it. It's people like Adria who discourage women to join or take part in our industry. http://lovefromkelly.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/life-as-female-developer.html http://lovefromkelly.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/life-as-female-d...

karuneshkaushal 14y ago
(Read your post and thought I would comment here) I am a male. I have worked in 2 small Indian companies (I wouldn't call them startups) over the past 2 years. A year at the first and 6 months at the second. Almost all guys/girls in early 20s (I will be 23 next month). We have a kind of unfriendly-to-women culture here in India, so I thought I would tell you what I think. Though reading about the current saga has made me think if this cultural thing exists here only or... We had a girl in a team of 7-8 developers at my second company, and she was good at work. I have seen a kind of disdain for her as a female colleague, in the sense that her successes were obvious (easy task/project etc) and hence ignored, and her failures (at the milestone level or the occasional short term project) were obvious too, but not ignored between the males (including me to at least some extent). About once a week or so, someone would say some double-meaning thing in her presence (99% unknowingly, or I am too naive), and she would laugh it off mostly, or simply ignore it. This made us respect her more, since she was letting us be ourselves (however stupid we were). I think she made the males like her because of her good work and great nature. When a common friend (same team) asked me if he should get her to moonlight with him on some contracting work, I told him I would love to work with a developer like her. Since this was kind of illegal with our company, so me recommending her meant that I liked her as a developer and trusted her as a fellow professional/person. However, she is just one person. There are many others too, and each of us, male or female or other has the right to think what we think and say what we want. In addition, we have the right to not listen to bullshit from others. The definition of bullshit varies according to the person, just like beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. I appreciate your point of view, but we have to appreciate Adria's point of view and feelings too. If she did not feel right about something, then that was that, and all she did was to get the (accused) guys away/quiet. What happened on the internet after that is, IMHO, a large slugfest, nothing more and nothing less. Lets just change the perspective a bit. I do not smoke, and will not appreciate people smoking near me. So, if you and your friends love smoking and you guys are smoking within a couple feet from me in a public place, I have the right to tell you guys off. If due to some reason, I feel that I should get someone in authority to help, say the police etc., then too I am not in the wrong. Because it might be harmless fun for you and your friends, but it is not the same for me and as a human I have the right to make it right for myself. Yes, I do not like the way girls talk about shopping and little children etc., and I positively dislike the way a lot of them comment (without being mean) on my complexion or my big nose or (if they know me from school) the way I got defeated at judo once within 10 seconds, but I think the whole thing about Adria and the guy(s) got blown out of proportion. Probably because of her decision to take to a fully open medium like twitter. And two people have lost their jobs without too much of an issue.

abentwookie 14y ago

Its simple: When you are in public learn to think before you speak. Its really not that difficult. I have enough sense not just blurt out things that could offend others when I am in public so I don't have these problems.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
> blurt out things that could offend others Do you have a comprehensive list? Is it calibrated to what country or audience you are in, or do you just avoid saying anything that could offend anyone anywhere. I made a joke about corruption once that hit too close to home for the people I was with, if I would have thought harder about where I was I should have kept my mouth shut.
- abentwookie 14y ago
  Yes, my common sense tells what is appropriate and what isn't in public. You have to keep in mind that every single person has something that they are sensitive about and they usually have a legitimate reason for that. Thew problem is a lot of people don't have a filter between their brain and their mouth. They just say whatever is on their mind without thinking. And this is what can happen when you do that. I basically don't say anything in public that could be offensive to people in general but yes I also take the crowd i'm with into consideration as well, like with your situation. And of course, before anyone says it.... Its not about being "PC" its about not being a douchebag.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Of course its being PC since this is exactly how PC is defined. You don't get to wish away the label simply because you don't like it, especially when you've just repeated the definition. I can always tell when I'm talking to someone with a strong filter and it always makes me feel uncomfortable. They don't seem genuine, they don't seem honest, they don't seem real. I wonder how they are really like when relaxed with their filters down. What if they really are a douchebag? I've met plenty of people who filter heavily but are still basically sociopaths. I've heard there is now corporate training on how to have a strong filter without letting other people know that you have one, by intentionally and strategically letting out noticeable but forgivable gaffes at certain points to make it appear as if you are genuine.

cocoa_goddess 14y ago

I am totally with you on this. I would have chuckled along with you. I also would have made my own comments too. I worked in the male-dominated worlds of turbine enginrs for 5 years and trucking industry for 7. In those 12 years so many inappropriate things were heard and said but not one was ever directed at anyone specific. I was one to partake in makung those comments and also egged on my co*workers. It was fun and funny. This woman has totally blown an innocent comment way out of proportion.

marden928 14y ago

It really is unfortunate that Adria didn't just reach out to you. I think we can all agree with that. At this point, it's clear to most of us that we all just need to be a bit more human with each other when running around at tech events. It's about intentions, you didn't intend harm; alas, it seems she did (no doubt to a much lesser degree than what actually happened). It's classy to apologize when you think you've upset someone. And if that's how you're going to sleep at night, apologize. What's awful at this point is the amount of hatred going around in regards to this situation. Here we have a sane response to an immature situation. Sine then, there is an army of commenters attacking Adria with hate on your behalf (something I know isn't your fault). People are sending Adria pictures of chopped up bodies with threats that she's next. They're asking for her to be raped, or threatening to do it themselves. She's been called every word in the book, with the worst intentions ever. Seems Adria got her feminist conversation, but not in the way she had intended. There are some really really horrible people out there in internet land.

mnicole 14y ago
Hey Marden, I see you're a new account. Just so you know, you actually replied to my reply to mr-hank. :)