11 ms·

Anyone else getting bored of people whining about Google products they never paid for when there are alternatives, both free and pay-for?

incongruity 14y ago
I use google alerts. I'd pay (a little bit) for it, if I could keep the quality up. That is to say, I'm not at fault for using a freely offered (and long standing) free service and it is worth noting when the quality of such a service starts to suffer. Lastly, if you're doing it right, free is not "free of value" to the provider. Google, the search and information company could easily be gleaning something important from what people are using alerts for... and for what they click through on, etc. etc. and, as such, just because it's "free", it doesn't mean I'm not mindful (or entitled to the benefits) of the value I am providing.
niggler 14y ago
" Google products they never paid for" I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment (bitching about free services feels like entitlement), but Google presents an interesting challenge here because the free services die without even trying or offering a paid version. I wonder what would happen if, instead of just axing services, google started charging.
- NegativeK 14y ago
  The news still goes crazy over it. When Google started charging for heavy use of the Maps API, people claimed Google was performing Microsoft-esque anti-competitive tactics.
  - mmanfrin 14y ago
    The difference there is that Google Maps was used on a majority of all products that featured maps (outside in-house things from Microsoft, or special partnerships). Google Alerts, Reader, Finance, et al are products they have been closing/breaking/disregarding for lack of interest, which is a completely opposite problem from the Maps example.
    - outside1234 14y ago
      The difference there was really that the iPhone used Maps and that that needed to be monetized.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - rgbrenner 14y ago
        the iphone maps app was from google (until the contract expired, and apple created their own)... how could charging themselves for api use be a monetization strategy?
- dragonwriter 14y ago
  > but Google presents an interesting challenge here because the free services die without even trying or offering a paid version. I wonder what would happen if, instead of just axing services, google started charging. If a free Google service had either the volume of users or the instensity of use that would make it seem viable as a paid service, it probably would either become a paid service or, if Google had a strategic reason to keep it free, continue as a free service. A free service that gets axed is almost certainly one that it doesn't appear likely enough to Google that it would be worthwhile as a paid service to justify expending the staff time required to design a pricing structure and integrate billing.
- mtgx 14y ago
  Well then people would just complain about "luring them in" with a free service and then charging them for it (5 years later).
  - EwanToo 14y ago
    mtgx, despite having 21724 karma, it seems you've been made [dead]..
- masklinn 14y ago
  > Google presents an interesting challenge here because the free services die without even trying or offering a paid version And would-be concurrence dies a quick death as they can't compete with a price of 0 and can't compete with a search index and processing power of essentially infinity.
- polskibus 14y ago
  You do pay for it with data on your behaviour, when watching and perhaps clicking the ads ,etc. Nothing's free. Starting to charge for something out of the blue generates a lot of negative feedback. There was a good case for this with Red Cross and doughnuts on HN recently.
vor_ 14y ago
Google is one of the top tech companies, so it's expected that it will receive attention and criticism. Whether or not the services are paid for seems irrelevant when Google's business model depends on most of their services being used for free.
itafroma 14y ago
What alternatives to Google Alerts are there? The only one I knew of that came close to it was Backtype, but they were acquired and shut down a couple of years ago.
- kayge 14y ago
  There was an alternative called Mention[1] that made the front page[2] of HN a few days ago, I have no idea how it compares in terms of features/quality/etc though: [1]https://en.mention.net/ https://en.mention.net/ [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5376180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5376180
  - easytiger 14y ago
    and they same to have a native client for win/lin/mac ... which is nice... but wouldnt a web portal be the way to do this
    - welcometothesky 14y ago
      Hi, I'm a co-founder at mention. mention goes way beyond what Google Alerts can do. We're real-time, monitor way more sources (Twitter for example). We do have native clients, but we also have a web and mobile version available. We'll soon be available right from your iPad too.
      - easytiger 14y ago
        ah cool. I'd put it on my list of platforms then, Windows, Mac, Linux, Web :)
  - gwern 14y ago
    The pricing of Mention alone torpedoes it as a tool for anyone but a commercial entity: you need to pay them $120 a year to get like more than 5 searches! (5 searches wouldn't even cover my existing Google Alerts for just my family, to say nothing of all the other interesting things I want news of.)
rjd 14y ago
Not at all, in fact I have a smug satisfaction each time I read stuff these days. Years of listening to mindless defenses and personal attacks for pointing out the obvious fact "that they are just as bad as any other company" ...the taste of sycophantic tears warms my jaded heart just a litte ;)
- jrochkind1 14y ago
  it's in fact precisely becuase Google got such a reputation for technical excellence and 'doing the right thing' that people feel so betrayed when google's products suck, or they act in their own business interest and against their users interests. Fewer people would bother posting a blog about a Microsoft product that sucked (or used to be good and now sucked), or a Microsoft decision that was bad for users but good for MS. Or if they did, nobody would pay attention. But, yeah, agree with you, I'm kind of glad that it's obvious that Google is quite capable of having crappy products or 'doing evil' -- in part it's smug satisfaction, in part it's because it makes them _less dangerous_ if people catch on to the dangers of their near monopolies.
Semaphor 14y ago
So I tried bing.com/news: One result. Even google alerts is providing more. Next I tried mention.net: 4 results not even related to my search, the rest were all overview sites instead of the article. For example it showed a kickstarter category page as recently updated because it had the search term. I would love to see a free or paid alternative that works.
- kamakazizuru 14y ago
  try presstler - we´re coming out of beta super soon - and this seems to be the perfect time! ;)
  - Semaphor 14y ago
    if it's http://www.presstler.com http://www.presstler.com, that seems to go in a different direction, I'm usually more interested in specific topics/items/technologies. That said, it sounds interesting anyway so I'll give it a try :)
    - kamakazizuru 14y ago
      ya the launchrock text could probably use a bit of an overhaul - haven't really bothered with it since we´re pushing for the open beta :) - thanks for your interest. sneak preview will go out soon enough!
- welcometothesky 14y ago
  I'm co-founder at mention. As we browse way more sources than Google does, you need to train the anti-noise technology a bit. After a few days, you should be all set! Drop an email at support@mention.net if you want us to help you.
bitcrusher 14y ago
Aren't we "paying" them by 'being the product'? That's the faustian bargin, I believe. You let me use your tool, I let you profile the hell out of me...
- reeses 14y ago
  You have a good point. I suspect, as sources of profiling data, Reader, Alerts, Wave, Buzz, etc. were not producing at the level of search and mail. Plus is to be seen, but it's already descending below the level of discourse on Facebook. (https://plus.google.com/+AstronomyPictureOfTheDay/posts https://plus.google.com/+AstronomyPictureOfTheDay/posts – I guess that's the problem with integrating it with a bunch of cheap smartphones)
smackfu 14y ago
No, I like hearing which Google products used to be good but suck now. If no one "whined" about it, how would you know which ones to avoid? Very odd complaint.

incongruity 14y ago

I use google alerts. I'd pay (a little bit) for it, if I could keep the quality up. That is to say, I'm not at fault for using a freely offered (and long standing) free service and it is worth noting when the quality of such a service starts to suffer. Lastly, if you're doing it right, free is not "free of value" to the provider. Google, the search and information company could easily be gleaning something important from what people are using alerts for... and for what they click through on, etc. etc. and, as such, just because it's "free", it doesn't mean I'm not mindful (or entitled to the benefits) of the value I am providing.

niggler 14y ago

" Google products they never paid for" I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment (bitching about free services feels like entitlement), but Google presents an interesting challenge here because the free services die without even trying or offering a paid version. I wonder what would happen if, instead of just axing services, google started charging.

NegativeK 14y ago
The news still goes crazy over it. When Google started charging for heavy use of the Maps API, people claimed Google was performing Microsoft-esque anti-competitive tactics.
- mmanfrin 14y ago
  The difference there is that Google Maps was used on a majority of all products that featured maps (outside in-house things from Microsoft, or special partnerships). Google Alerts, Reader, Finance, et al are products they have been closing/breaking/disregarding for lack of interest, which is a completely opposite problem from the Maps example.
  - outside1234 14y ago
    The difference there was really that the iPhone used Maps and that that needed to be monetized.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - rgbrenner 14y ago
      the iphone maps app was from google (until the contract expired, and apple created their own)... how could charging themselves for api use be a monetization strategy?
dragonwriter 14y ago
> but Google presents an interesting challenge here because the free services die without even trying or offering a paid version. I wonder what would happen if, instead of just axing services, google started charging. If a free Google service had either the volume of users or the instensity of use that would make it seem viable as a paid service, it probably would either become a paid service or, if Google had a strategic reason to keep it free, continue as a free service. A free service that gets axed is almost certainly one that it doesn't appear likely enough to Google that it would be worthwhile as a paid service to justify expending the staff time required to design a pricing structure and integrate billing.
mtgx 14y ago
Well then people would just complain about "luring them in" with a free service and then charging them for it (5 years later).
- EwanToo 14y ago
  mtgx, despite having 21724 karma, it seems you've been made [dead]..
masklinn 14y ago
> Google presents an interesting challenge here because the free services die without even trying or offering a paid version And would-be concurrence dies a quick death as they can't compete with a price of 0 and can't compete with a search index and processing power of essentially infinity.
polskibus 14y ago
You do pay for it with data on your behaviour, when watching and perhaps clicking the ads ,etc. Nothing's free. Starting to charge for something out of the blue generates a lot of negative feedback. There was a good case for this with Red Cross and doughnuts on HN recently.

vor_ 14y ago

Google is one of the top tech companies, so it's expected that it will receive attention and criticism. Whether or not the services are paid for seems irrelevant when Google's business model depends on most of their services being used for free.

itafroma 14y ago

What alternatives to Google Alerts are there? The only one I knew of that came close to it was Backtype, but they were acquired and shut down a couple of years ago.

kayge 14y ago
There was an alternative called Mention[1] that made the front page[2] of HN a few days ago, I have no idea how it compares in terms of features/quality/etc though: [1]https://en.mention.net/ https://en.mention.net/ [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5376180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5376180
- easytiger 14y ago
  and they same to have a native client for win/lin/mac ... which is nice... but wouldnt a web portal be the way to do this
  - welcometothesky 14y ago
    Hi, I'm a co-founder at mention. mention goes way beyond what Google Alerts can do. We're real-time, monitor way more sources (Twitter for example). We do have native clients, but we also have a web and mobile version available. We'll soon be available right from your iPad too.
    - easytiger 14y ago
      ah cool. I'd put it on my list of platforms then, Windows, Mac, Linux, Web :)
- gwern 14y ago
  The pricing of Mention alone torpedoes it as a tool for anyone but a commercial entity: you need to pay them $120 a year to get like more than 5 searches! (5 searches wouldn't even cover my existing Google Alerts for just my family, to say nothing of all the other interesting things I want news of.)

rjd 14y ago

Not at all, in fact I have a smug satisfaction each time I read stuff these days. Years of listening to mindless defenses and personal attacks for pointing out the obvious fact "that they are just as bad as any other company" ...the taste of sycophantic tears warms my jaded heart just a litte ;)

jrochkind1 14y ago
it's in fact precisely becuase Google got such a reputation for technical excellence and 'doing the right thing' that people feel so betrayed when google's products suck, or they act in their own business interest and against their users interests. Fewer people would bother posting a blog about a Microsoft product that sucked (or used to be good and now sucked), or a Microsoft decision that was bad for users but good for MS. Or if they did, nobody would pay attention. But, yeah, agree with you, I'm kind of glad that it's obvious that Google is quite capable of having crappy products or 'doing evil' -- in part it's smug satisfaction, in part it's because it makes them _less dangerous_ if people catch on to the dangers of their near monopolies.

Semaphor 14y ago

So I tried bing.com/news: One result. Even google alerts is providing more. Next I tried mention.net: 4 results not even related to my search, the rest were all overview sites instead of the article. For example it showed a kickstarter category page as recently updated because it had the search term. I would love to see a free or paid alternative that works.

kamakazizuru 14y ago
try presstler - we´re coming out of beta super soon - and this seems to be the perfect time! ;)
- Semaphor 14y ago
  if it's http://www.presstler.com http://www.presstler.com, that seems to go in a different direction, I'm usually more interested in specific topics/items/technologies. That said, it sounds interesting anyway so I'll give it a try :)
  - kamakazizuru 14y ago
    ya the launchrock text could probably use a bit of an overhaul - haven't really bothered with it since we´re pushing for the open beta :) - thanks for your interest. sneak preview will go out soon enough!
welcometothesky 14y ago
I'm co-founder at mention. As we browse way more sources than Google does, you need to train the anti-noise technology a bit. After a few days, you should be all set! Drop an email at support@mention.net if you want us to help you.

bitcrusher 14y ago

Aren't we "paying" them by 'being the product'? That's the faustian bargin, I believe. You let me use your tool, I let you profile the hell out of me...

reeses 14y ago
You have a good point. I suspect, as sources of profiling data, Reader, Alerts, Wave, Buzz, etc. were not producing at the level of search and mail. Plus is to be seen, but it's already descending below the level of discourse on Facebook. (https://plus.google.com/+AstronomyPictureOfTheDay/posts https://plus.google.com/+AstronomyPictureOfTheDay/posts – I guess that's the problem with integrating it with a bunch of cheap smartphones)

smackfu 14y ago

No, I like hearing which Google products used to be good but suck now. If no one "whined" about it, how would you know which ones to avoid? Very odd complaint.