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Assuming this wasn't a case where an insider broke into security and installed a transmitter onto a specific video feed, isn't there an argument here as to who

Assuming this wasn't a case where an insider broke into security and installed a transmitter onto a specific video feed, isn't there an argument here as to who owns a presumably unencrypted RF signals? Also, is there an implied Terms Of Service you agree to when entering a casino? I've been to many and have never seen anything even remotely resembling a TOS. I was asked to stop playing roulette at a major Vegas casino a number of years ago. I wasn't betting big or making tons of money. I am what one might call a geek gambler: I enjoy devising ways to improve my odds. During my occasional trips to Vegas (example: Once a year for CES) I test the ideas with a couple of hundred bucks. It's purely for fun. If the goal was making money it'd be far more effective to spend four hours coding rather than gambling. Anyhow, on this particular occasion I had memorized a betting pattern that improved the probability of my bets winning. On average it seemed effective. I got kicked out when I won thirteen times in a row. Fun while it lasted.

raldi 14y ago
Assuming this wasn't a case where an insider broke into security and installed a transmitter onto a specific video feed, isn't there an argument here as to who owns a presumably unencrypted RF signals? No. Most gambling locales have a law against the use of hidden electronic devices to assist play. It has nothing to do with airwave rights.
vincefutr23 14y ago
you cant' improve the probability in roulette with a pattern
- robomartin 14y ago
  I didn't say I improved the probability of the game. I improved the probability of my betting decisions producing favorable outcomes. Huge difference. Think of it as betting by considering the physics of the game vs. in complete ignorance. Betting single numbers, black, white, dozens, columns and rows is absolutely moronic once you stop to think about how the game actually works.
  - eru 14y ago
    So what physics did you take into account?
    - ww520 14y ago
      The roulette is unbalanced and tilted one way?
      - robomartin 14y ago
        No. Read my reply to "eru".
        eru 14y ago
        No need to scare-quote the nicknames here.
        robomartin 14y ago
        Not intended that way at all. I didn't even know the term "scare quote" existed.
    - ghshephard 14y ago
      We're being trolled by robomartin, which is not normally acceptable behavior on HN.
      - sophacles 14y ago
        No you aren't, roulette is not an RNG, it is a PRNG. If you take into account the initial marble velocity and rate of rotation of the wheel, you can seriously reduce the probability space of where the ball will land. Further, this can be modelled statistically pretty simply. To win at betting with roulette you only need to bet on a set of numbers, where the probability of the marble landing on that set is pretty good, and the payout of winning over time covers the losses from being wrong. So say you can accurately guess which 1/4 of the wheel will capture the marble. (and there are no greens... the real math is the same but uglier a bit). You put down equal bets on the 9 numbers represented by that. Each beting round will net you a 4:1 payout. Now say you can only guess that 1/4 of the wheel, 50% of the time. You will still average a 2:1 payout. Guessing the 1/4 of the board 50% of the time is not that hard, you just need to calculate the linear drift of the time the marble passes a fixed point, and know the frequency of "loops" that is too slow for the marble to stay on the track. Accounting for the rotation of the board is straight-forward, it is almost constant for a given play. The 50% covers the wierd bounces. Just calculate board position for the time that the marble will get below the threshold, and the marble position as well, and you've won. A person can't do it well, but an arduino is overkill for it. Edit: further notes on this- casinos will be able to detect this easily. All they have to do is look for people on hot streaks that are "too hot", then compare betting placement with wheel positions. And they generally kick people out who are winning too much anyway, even if they can't prove 'chaeting'.
jacques_chester 14y ago
> Also, is there an implied Terms Of Service you agree to when entering a casino? Yes, there is. It reads something like this: "This is private property. When you are no longer welcome, you are a trespasser and if you don't leave, we will call the police".
trotsky 14y ago
The security you describe doesn't match current home automation standards let alone high end commercial practices. Casinos live and die by their monitoring systems to prevent in house theft - it's pretty much guaranteed that stuff is traveling on secured wired networks.
chrsstrm 14y ago
You got lucky 13 times in a row. It happens. And since you were only playing with "a couple hundred bucks" you were probably at a $5 or $10 limit table. The casino wasn't worried that you were going to break the bank, it's more likely you were asked to leave because of your behavior. The numbers on the wheel don't correlate to the numbers on the table, so there is no betting strategy where you can make multiple multi-number bet combinations to offset any risk. Not even with a single zero wheel. Did you consider a win as one of your numbers hitting or an actual net gain? Run your strategy over 5000 or 10,000 spins and you'll see it doesn't work. You got lucky in the short term and it wasn't due to skill. Put the money in your pocket and walk away, because streaks like that are rare.
- robomartin 14y ago
  Are you implying I was behaving inappropriately? Sorry, I am not one of those idiots. I was the only player at the table. I was sitting across the way from the dealer betting. I was actually engaging the dealer in occasional chit chat while running the patterns in my head. With regards to what would happen over 5,000 or 10,000 spins, yeah, of course, the odds are the odds. That said, I went across the street to another casino and did just as well. Will it happen again? Who knows? Probably not.

raldi 14y ago

Assuming this wasn't a case where an insider broke into security and installed a transmitter onto a specific video feed, isn't there an argument here as to who owns a presumably unencrypted RF signals? No. Most gambling locales have a law against the use of hidden electronic devices to assist play. It has nothing to do with airwave rights.

vincefutr23 14y ago

you cant' improve the probability in roulette with a pattern

robomartin 14y ago
I didn't say I improved the probability of the game. I improved the probability of my betting decisions producing favorable outcomes. Huge difference. Think of it as betting by considering the physics of the game vs. in complete ignorance. Betting single numbers, black, white, dozens, columns and rows is absolutely moronic once you stop to think about how the game actually works.
- eru 14y ago
  So what physics did you take into account?
  - ww520 14y ago
    The roulette is unbalanced and tilted one way?
    - robomartin 14y ago
      No. Read my reply to "eru".
      - eru 14y ago
        No need to scare-quote the nicknames here.
        robomartin 14y ago
        Not intended that way at all. I didn't even know the term "scare quote" existed.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    We're being trolled by robomartin, which is not normally acceptable behavior on HN.
    - sophacles 14y ago
      No you aren't, roulette is not an RNG, it is a PRNG. If you take into account the initial marble velocity and rate of rotation of the wheel, you can seriously reduce the probability space of where the ball will land. Further, this can be modelled statistically pretty simply. To win at betting with roulette you only need to bet on a set of numbers, where the probability of the marble landing on that set is pretty good, and the payout of winning over time covers the losses from being wrong. So say you can accurately guess which 1/4 of the wheel will capture the marble. (and there are no greens... the real math is the same but uglier a bit). You put down equal bets on the 9 numbers represented by that. Each beting round will net you a 4:1 payout. Now say you can only guess that 1/4 of the wheel, 50% of the time. You will still average a 2:1 payout. Guessing the 1/4 of the board 50% of the time is not that hard, you just need to calculate the linear drift of the time the marble passes a fixed point, and know the frequency of "loops" that is too slow for the marble to stay on the track. Accounting for the rotation of the board is straight-forward, it is almost constant for a given play. The 50% covers the wierd bounces. Just calculate board position for the time that the marble will get below the threshold, and the marble position as well, and you've won. A person can't do it well, but an arduino is overkill for it. Edit: further notes on this- casinos will be able to detect this easily. All they have to do is look for people on hot streaks that are "too hot", then compare betting placement with wheel positions. And they generally kick people out who are winning too much anyway, even if they can't prove 'chaeting'.

jacques_chester 14y ago

> Also, is there an implied Terms Of Service you agree to when entering a casino? Yes, there is. It reads something like this: "This is private property. When you are no longer welcome, you are a trespasser and if you don't leave, we will call the police".

trotsky 14y ago

The security you describe doesn't match current home automation standards let alone high end commercial practices. Casinos live and die by their monitoring systems to prevent in house theft - it's pretty much guaranteed that stuff is traveling on secured wired networks.

chrsstrm 14y ago

You got lucky 13 times in a row. It happens. And since you were only playing with "a couple hundred bucks" you were probably at a $5 or $10 limit table. The casino wasn't worried that you were going to break the bank, it's more likely you were asked to leave because of your behavior. The numbers on the wheel don't correlate to the numbers on the table, so there is no betting strategy where you can make multiple multi-number bet combinations to offset any risk. Not even with a single zero wheel. Did you consider a win as one of your numbers hitting or an actual net gain? Run your strategy over 5000 or 10,000 spins and you'll see it doesn't work. You got lucky in the short term and it wasn't due to skill. Put the money in your pocket and walk away, because streaks like that are rare.

robomartin 14y ago
Are you implying I was behaving inappropriately? Sorry, I am not one of those idiots. I was the only player at the table. I was sitting across the way from the dealer betting. I was actually engaging the dealer in occasional chit chat while running the patterns in my head. With regards to what would happen over 5,000 or 10,000 spins, yeah, of course, the odds are the odds. That said, I went across the street to another casino and did just as well. Will it happen again? Who knows? Probably not.