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One of the problem in France is the dire state of the political discourse, full of empty diatribes and finger-pointing that prevent focus on real, practical pro

One of the problem in France is the dire state of the political discourse, full of empty diatribes and finger-pointing that prevent focus on real, practical problems with painful solutions. Sadly your commentary is an example of this. Immigration is not a problem to the welfare state (it has been shown that new immigrants pay off for what they obtain) and socialists are not the only culprits when the welfare state you're complaining about takes its origin in conservative De Gaulle era and more than 2/3 of the national debt originates from years when right-wing governments were in power. France needs to change its course, of course. Off the top of my head, I can cite two or three reforms that are badly needed: adopt the "flexicurity" Scandinavian system with flexible hiring/firing and great investment of the state in helping people finding job again, to reduce risks for employers and prevent people to fall in the shitty long-term unemployment; reform entirely the unfair and ineffective tax system to get rid of loopholes and reduce the tax rate and pay for welfare with progressive income tax instead of get money from poor worker's salary. These are centrists policies and despite all the shit thrown in political discourse right now, they have slightly better chance to be implemented by the current Socialist Party in power (which is very centrist in acts, albeit not in speech) than by what the main right wing party is currently heading to right now. But that's just my opinion.

guylhem 14y ago
This is the single most insightful comment in this thread. That's close to what the Economist said on that issue - the socialists have the political power to make such reports. These are centrist reforms - partly libertarian, partly social, but given the current status of France they are among the only possible solutions. Regarding immigration, it's not a problem when it's selected immigration like some country do - say Canada. Immigration is a problem if you are welcoming workers with little education, who come from social or religious group who holds their beliefs are superior and better than anyone else's, and are more likely to develop hatred towards the host country and grow that hate when they are forced into a social net they have no hope of escaping - and that'll also be forced on their kids due to racism etc. How good could it be for say Isreal to welcome immigration in open arms from say Iran ? I'm not talking of their nuclear scientists, remember- unselective immigration. IMHO, it wouldn't be good at all, which may be why they are not doing it :-)
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  >Immigration is a problem if you are welcoming workers with little education, who come from social or religious group who holds their beliefs are superior and better than anyone else's, and are more likely to develop hatred towards the host country and grow that hate when they are forced into a social net they have no hope of escaping - and that'll also be forced on their kids due to racism etc. Are you quoting Rush Limbaugh? >How good could it be for say Isreal to welcome immigration in open arms from say Iran ? This doesnt make sense, there were plenty of Iranian Jews who immigrated to Isreal. From what I understand, Isreal will take you if you are Jewish, they aren't very selective.
  - guylhem 14y ago
    If Isreal will take you if you are Jewish, that seems selective. It doesn't seem to be than >50% of the Iranian population is Jewish. Maybe it means they will welcome people less "likely to develop hatred towards the host country" because of their preexisting beliefs and religion?
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      I was just pointing put that your statement on Iran was obviously false. I never understood why France had such a hard time with muslim immigrants when they seem to completely integrate in the states within one generation. I'm sure it has to do more with the differences between Americans and French then...the immigrants themselves.
      - guylhem 14y ago
        Yeah, like there is no problem whatsoever in places as different as the Netherlands, and Australia. But you're right it seems to be working fine in the US for muslims. Something certainly related to the american culture and how open it is.
        seanmcdirmid 14y ago

guylhem 14y ago

This is the single most insightful comment in this thread. That's close to what the Economist said on that issue - the socialists have the political power to make such reports. These are centrist reforms - partly libertarian, partly social, but given the current status of France they are among the only possible solutions. Regarding immigration, it's not a problem when it's selected immigration like some country do - say Canada. Immigration is a problem if you are welcoming workers with little education, who come from social or religious group who holds their beliefs are superior and better than anyone else's, and are more likely to develop hatred towards the host country and grow that hate when they are forced into a social net they have no hope of escaping - and that'll also be forced on their kids due to racism etc. How good could it be for say Isreal to welcome immigration in open arms from say Iran ? I'm not talking of their nuclear scientists, remember- unselective immigration. IMHO, it wouldn't be good at all, which may be why they are not doing it :-)

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
>Immigration is a problem if you are welcoming workers with little education, who come from social or religious group who holds their beliefs are superior and better than anyone else's, and are more likely to develop hatred towards the host country and grow that hate when they are forced into a social net they have no hope of escaping - and that'll also be forced on their kids due to racism etc. Are you quoting Rush Limbaugh? >How good could it be for say Isreal to welcome immigration in open arms from say Iran ? This doesnt make sense, there were plenty of Iranian Jews who immigrated to Isreal. From what I understand, Isreal will take you if you are Jewish, they aren't very selective.
- guylhem 14y ago
  If Isreal will take you if you are Jewish, that seems selective. It doesn't seem to be than >50% of the Iranian population is Jewish. Maybe it means they will welcome people less "likely to develop hatred towards the host country" because of their preexisting beliefs and religion?
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    I was just pointing put that your statement on Iran was obviously false. I never understood why France had such a hard time with muslim immigrants when they seem to completely integrate in the states within one generation. I'm sure it has to do more with the differences between Americans and French then...the immigrants themselves.
    - guylhem 14y ago
      Yeah, like there is no problem whatsoever in places as different as the Netherlands, and Australia. But you're right it seems to be working fine in the US for muslims. Something certainly related to the american culture and how open it is.
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago