6 ms·

You are 100% spot on. I moved to Belgium (like many "wealthy" french people do) and will probably move further away. The situation in the eurozone is really d

You are 100% spot on. I moved to Belgium (like many "wealthy" french people do) and will probably move further away. The situation in the eurozone is really degrading quickly: it's not gonna get better with the second state default of Greece and the 50% unemployment amongst young people in Spain. Portugal, Italy and France (Greece is economically dead as of now) are on life support. France let way too many people in and gave them way too much welfare-state goodness (that's the way socialist buy votes to get re-elected). Lost of immigration is good when the GDP is growing: 100 000 people is 0.1 additional % of GDP growth... But when you're in recession, all the immigrants can't find job and suddenly they accelerate the fall of the GDP (due to all the wellfare-state benefits that have to be paid). Moreover the socialists made sure to give a sense of entitlement to most of the french population: so as soon as something is talked about getting lowered or removed, there are strikes and revolts. Physical security is a real issue: it's really not reassuring to take the subway in Paris and exit at station "Chatelet" to see groups of heavy armed military trying to make sure the situation doesn't degenerate too quickly. I think most people are living in a fairy tale, refusing to see what is going on. France is going to state default just like Greece, the question is just when. The officials keeps lying about the predicted GDP numbers and state deficit numbers: now they admitted that they'll be in recession in 2013 and plan on a state deficit of 3,7%. It's going to be much more than that. In 2014 the french state shall have so many debts to pay back that it's going to have a very hard time refinancing itself on the market, bringing it closer to a default (skyrocketing public debt). No country in the eurozone is safe due to the common currency. You have to be IMHO a totally stupid and fcked up person to start an online business in France as of now. Don't forget that should you succeed you'd be regarded with jalousy and hatred. Last year while on vacation in France my girlfriend was driving in a 8K convertible car (bought used for 8K). 8K. Hardly a "rich" person's car. Yet she could see the disdain and hate at trafic light from french people. Socialism ruined France. While Sarkozy was in place it was still a wellfare-state and the local communities created more state servants than Sarkozy managed to terminate at the state level (Sarkozy suppressed 180 000 public state jobs, trying to keep the public debt in control but meanwhile the socialist in charge of the local communities created... 500 000 public state jobs!). Socialism is killing France and is killing the eurozone. It's killing entrepreneurship and encouraging a very* concerning hate of the succesful (President Hollande said himself: "I don't like the rich"). I moved out. Do the same. Do not even consider starting a company there. Btw go further than the eurozone: the only way out of the euro-crisis is going to mean either a gigantic depreciation of the euro or a split of the eurozone and a move back to local currencies (which would be followed by a massive recession in all these countries). I'm considering Switzerland as of now. It's expensive but at least people there aren't all nuts. I don't mind giving Godwin the win: not that long ago in Germany there were national socialists who put in place 8 of Marx's ten major point of communism and who spread hatred of the wealthy and the succesful. France is going this same path right now and this worries me a lot. People are getting nervous. Hate is growing up left and right. The situation sucks. The military are already in charge of subway stations and doing surveillance in front of important buildings (like Notre Dame). There are only going to be more and more of them. If the situation gets worse I expect the "couvre feu" to be put in place in big cities. People are free to believe in fearytale and pink unicorn pooping rainbow butterflies that said...

epsylon 14y ago
The FUD is strong in this post again. Please keep your political unargumented opinions for yourself. > all the immigrants can't find job and suddenly they accelerate the fall of the GDP (due to all the wellfare-state benefits that have to be paid). In 2009, of the 600 billion euros spent by the french government on welfare [1], 45% were allocated towards elder care, 35% towards general health care, 10% towards family welfare (which every family benefit from whatever their revenues are, and which has been praised by many nations as a major factor in France's high birth rates), and a whopping 6.1% towards unemployement aids. I'm pretty sure the numbers in 2012 aren't far from that. So yeah, your bar counter theories on immigration and welfare being the cause of the economic crisis don't mean much when compared to real numbers. EDIT: I'll add towards the international audience of HN that, it's true that few French don't realize how awesome health care is in France (which is one of the reasons why salaries are lower here for the middle class and above, the other reasons being education and retirement). You can go to a hospital for a severe treatment (including many treatments such as cancer which could bankrupt an individual) and get treated essentially for free. If you have a job, your health insurance usually takes care of the part (minus a tiny something) that isn't paid by Securité Sociale (the state departement that manages all health related spendings) and if you're too poor to afford a health insurance you get a universal, state-managed one which gives you most of the benefits anyway. Where in another country, you'd have to pay thousands of euros of hospital bills for a severe condition, in France usually you'd end up paying only a couple hundred euros, perhaps less. Of course this comes at a cost (and has drawbacks as well because people don't realize the true cost of healthcare), but that's the choice that's been made by the French society. >Last year while on vacation in France my girlfriend was driving in a 8K convertible car (bought used for 8K). 8K. Hardly a "rich" person's car. Yet she could see the disdain and hate at trafic light from french people. Yay for anecdotal evidence ! >Physical security is a real issue: it's really not reassuring to take the subway in Paris and exit at station "Chatelet" to see groups of heavy armed military trying to make sure the situation doesn't degenerate too quickly. [...] >The military are already in charge of subway stations and doing surveillance in front of important buildings (like Notre Dame). There are only going to be more and more of them. If the situation gets worse I expect the "couvre feu" to be put in place in big cities. Please. The militaries are part of plan Vigipirate whose goal is to prevent terrorists attacks in risky public places. They are certainly not here for criminal violence (which, if you knew what you talk about, are the jurisdiction of the various police forces, including CRS and gendarmes). The situation surely isn't ideal, but we're a very long way from curfews and martial law. What you're saying is pure bullshit. >I don't mind giving Godwin the win Yep, Godwin point. It truly shows how well argumented your message is. [1] http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/les-prestations-sociales-ont-atteint-31-3-du-pib-en-2009-01-03-2011-1301074_28.php http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/les-prestations-sociales-ont-...

epsylon 14y ago

The FUD is strong in this post again. Please keep your political unargumented opinions for yourself. > all the immigrants can't find job and suddenly they accelerate the fall of the GDP (due to all the wellfare-state benefits that have to be paid). In 2009, of the 600 billion euros spent by the french government on welfare [1], 45% were allocated towards elder care, 35% towards general health care, 10% towards family welfare (which every family benefit from whatever their revenues are, and which has been praised by many nations as a major factor in France's high birth rates), and a whopping 6.1% towards unemployement aids. I'm pretty sure the numbers in 2012 aren't far from that. So yeah, your bar counter theories on immigration and welfare being the cause of the economic crisis don't mean much when compared to real numbers. EDIT: I'll add towards the international audience of HN that, it's true that few French don't realize how awesome health care is in France (which is one of the reasons why salaries are lower here for the middle class and above, the other reasons being education and retirement). You can go to a hospital for a severe treatment (including many treatments such as cancer which could bankrupt an individual) and get treated essentially for free. If you have a job, your health insurance usually takes care of the part (minus a tiny something) that isn't paid by Securité Sociale (the state departement that manages all health related spendings) and if you're too poor to afford a health insurance you get a universal, state-managed one which gives you most of the benefits anyway. Where in another country, you'd have to pay thousands of euros of hospital bills for a severe condition, in France usually you'd end up paying only a couple hundred euros, perhaps less. Of course this comes at a cost (and has drawbacks as well because people don't realize the true cost of healthcare), but that's the choice that's been made by the French society. >Last year while on vacation in France my girlfriend was driving in a 8K convertible car (bought used for 8K). 8K. Hardly a "rich" person's car. Yet she could see the disdain and hate at trafic light from french people. Yay for anecdotal evidence ! >Physical security is a real issue: it's really not reassuring to take the subway in Paris and exit at station "Chatelet" to see groups of heavy armed military trying to make sure the situation doesn't degenerate too quickly. [...] >The military are already in charge of subway stations and doing surveillance in front of important buildings (like Notre Dame). There are only going to be more and more of them. If the situation gets worse I expect the "couvre feu" to be put in place in big cities. Please. The militaries are part of plan Vigipirate whose goal is to prevent terrorists attacks in risky public places. They are certainly not here for criminal violence (which, if you knew what you talk about, are the jurisdiction of the various police forces, including CRS and gendarmes). The situation surely isn't ideal, but we're a very long way from curfews and martial law. What you're saying is pure bullshit. >I don't mind giving Godwin the win Yep, Godwin point. It truly shows how well argumented your message is. [1] http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/les-prestations-sociales-ont-atteint-31-3-du-pib-en-2009-01-03-2011-1301074_28.php http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/les-prestations-sociales-ont-...