5 ms·

Uber driver charged with raping woman in D.C.

33 points by rexreed 14y ago

nsxwolf 14y ago
Yikes. Anyone know how a startup protects themselves from liability in this kind of situation?
- freehunter 14y ago
  Attorneys. No matter what, make sure you have an attorney on retainer. People sue and get sued, and businesses have much more exposure to a lot more and varied types of people. If you're an even moderate business success, you'll be getting calls from lawyers or you'll be getting someone who tries to skirt your policy based on a loophole in your TOS/AUP/etc. Lawyer up. If you don't have the money for a lawyer to review your business with you, you're putting yourself and your customers at a risk that many would deem unacceptable.
- 1123581321 14y ago
  You protect yourself by having proactive policies (e.g. Über will do well for themselves to show the extent of their background checks and driver training), business insurance and legal representation.
- theorique 14y ago
  Lawyer up, big time.
- warfangle 14y ago
  Given the driver was not employed by Uber, but employed by a limo company that uses Uber's technology...
  - bdcravens 14y ago
    "Craigslist rapists" aren't employees of Craigslist either, yet there's still the negative stigma.
- bdcravens 14y ago
  It seems there's an attitude that startups that are "disrupting" don't play by the same rules as "traditional" businesses. (See the many discussions re Uber and AirBnB as they relate to local regulations) Business can be a very scary place, with risk - even when it has nothing to do with your company, PR association can be a killer. Situations like this are careful reminders that it takes more than a MacBook Air, 5 Hour Energy, and six weeks at an incubator desk to launch a successful business.
- andrewguenther 14y ago
  Yes, lawyer up, but I think many of these comments are missing the true lesson here. You need to take the proper precautions. Uber's screening of their drivers is laughable. Regulations don't exist solely to make your life miserable, and hopefully this incident, true or not, gives them the shock they need to understand their problem. While I appreciate what Uber's service is trying to accomplish, sacrificing safety is not the kind of "disruption" this industry needs.
sandbochs 14y ago
Hope they release the results of the DNA matching. Innocent until proven guilty.
snprbob86 14y ago
I don't really appreciate the fact that the suspect is named publicly, but the victim is not. It should be either neither, or both, preferably the former. Every time I see an article about rape, there are hints of bias to full on convictions in the court of public opinion. Innocent until proven guilty! Uber probably has GPS data for the Driver's phone. Did he linger at the destination long enough for a rape to occur? Or did he immediately begin traveling towards his next fare? There's a character witness for the driver, but what about for the woman? After all, she was just kicked out of a bar... What is the status of her injury? There's just not enough information here for this to justify as news quite yet.
- rhdoenges 14y ago
  > After all, she was just kicked out of a bar... What difference does this make?
  - warfangle 14y ago
    None at all, unless you make a habit of victim blaming.
    - simcop2387 14y ago
      Not to diminish what is going on but at this point all we have is heresy, we don't know what actually happened. She could have been drunk enough that she thought it happened when it didn't (knew a few people like that, men and women in college), or she could have a history of making accusations (rape or not). It is also equally likely that something did happen to her and that her accusations are accurate and something should be done (prosecution). At this point we must wait until at least a judge has heard the case and if there is any kind of prosecution going forward. Only then can we even begin to form any kind of cogent opinion on the matter given all the variables and unanswered questions.
      - Avshalom 14y ago
        >Not to diminish what is going on but at this point all we have is heresy, we don't know what actually happened It is only ever sexual assault cases where this many calls for skepticism -as to whether a crime even happened- are made.
speeder 14y ago
Rape accusations, true or not, always end destroying the accused, specially because there are low penalties for false accusations, and the media is very fast in plastering the person name and photo everywhere. Also, being a driver is kinda dangerous regarding that, I have some driver friends, and they all have the same rule: They don't pick up lone women, period, it might be raining, hurricane, dust storm, middle of the night, day, whatever, if she is a woman, and alone, they don't pick up them, ever. It is because here in Brazil at least, is a very common scam to a women accuse a driver (be him professional, like a cabbie or Uber-like driver, or a volunteer that wants to help a hitchhiker) of rape, or make threats to accuse him unless he pays her something. On this case in particular, I think the best is wait for what a judge and evidence has to say.
- Aloisius 14y ago
  Why don't your driver friends just put a small camera in the cab? In the US this is fairly common in cabs, though not at all in towncars. It prevents a whole host of potential problems.
  - rhdoenges 14y ago
    Seems the incident may have been recorded: > Messages related to the incident on neighborhood email groups state that the incident was caught on security cameras mounted to the victim's home. source: http://dcist.com/2013/03/uber_driver_charged_with_sexual_ass.php http://dcist.com/2013/03/uber_driver_charged_with_sexual_ass...
- rhdoenges 14y ago
  It says she paid her fare. What other motive could she have had to make this accusation? Unfortunately, there is little evidence to go on at this point aside from her testimony, so much of this discussion is mere speculation.
  - Aloisius 14y ago
    It is an uber. The fare is automatically paid with or without her.
xanadohnt 14y ago
Why is Über even mentioned? How about some details on the manufacturer of the seat the driver was sitting on, maybe what barber he usues too? Regardless, this is tragic if true, and my heart goes out.
- ryanhuff 14y ago
  Uber is mentioned for the same reason why Craigslist is mentioned when something goes bad with a CL deal. It adds context to the story.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Same reason e.g. American Airlines would be mentioned if something similar happened with one of their pilots.
- duaneb 14y ago
  Uber doesn't really vet their drivers properly, or at least that's what I found with a little Googling. Uber should take responsibility because this person put trust in their service and got raped. Now, it could be that Uber did vet the guy and he came up clean, but they should make that clear.
- lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  It's relevant. Uber are creating a network of unregulated cabs, and people have been voicing concerns over the consequences of that. It can happen with a regulated cab too, but it's probably a little more sensitive given that there are no regulations at all. These concerns are not mine, and I'm not taking a position for or against Uber, I'm just pointing this out.
  - duaneb 14y ago
    It's a matter of trust in the brand, not of whether Uber could have prevented it.
  - rtkwe 14y ago
    They still employ specially licensed driver just like cab companies. The regulations they don't have to deal with are things like availability and rate laws iirc.
cs702 14y ago
At least one critic of the company warned exactly about this a long while ago: "Laws don’t exist merely to frustrate the business ambitions of coastal hipsters: They also exist to protect the more vulnerable members of society. Back home in London (where such statistics are available), 11 women a month are attacked in unlicensed cabs, and unlicensed drivers are responsible for a horrifying 80 percent of all stranger rapes. If Uber doesn't have to follow licensing laws, then neither does any Tom, Dick, or Harry who chooses to paint the word 'TAXI' on the side of his car, and start offering rides via the Internet. A disruptive CEO will shrug (and there's a foreshadowing word) and insist that it’s not his fault that such criminals exist."[1] It appears this critic was right. -- [1] http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/24/travis-shrugged/ http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/24/travis-shrugged/ -- Edit: added "It appears," which more accurately conveys my position.
- chc 14y ago
  How does licensing ward off rape? I'm pretty sure I can warn that licensed cap drivers rape people and I'll be vindicated too.
- Aloisius 14y ago
  You can't just become an uber driver. They are licensed livery drivers registered with each state. I'm not sure it is any less stringent application than becoming a cab driver.
- ataggart 14y ago
  It's not clear to me how government licensing would prevent an already illegal rape.
  - Retric 14y ago
    Tracking, people are far less likely to commit crimes if they need to be identified beforehand. Background checking, while far from foolproof it's both a deterrent and a preventative measure. Higher barriers to entry, if it takes significant amounts of effort and money to be able to drive a cab then people are both less likely to risk it and going to try something else to have their 'fun'.
ratpad 14y ago
How in the world is this an "Uber" driver... Doesn't he work for a company that's using Uber? Find this a bit of a sensationalized smear on the service to associate him so closely with it.
- andrewguenther 14y ago
  Uber approved him as a driver, he receives clients through Uber, he receives payments through Uber...
greenyoda 14y ago
Despite what the headline on HN says, the article states in the very first sentence that he was not charged with anything, and released: "District prosecutors on Thursday said they will not charge a limo driver who city police had arrested and accused of raping a 20-year-old customer outside her home in December." Edit: Looks like the news article used to have that same headline; it's still what the page title says. Apparently, the police got it wrong in their press conference: "Bill Miller, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office, told The Washington Post that the office was not charging Anouar Habib Trabelsi, even as a top D.C. police commander was holding a news conference outside police headquarters announcing the criminal charge."
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

33 points by rexreed 14y ago

nsxwolf 14y ago

Yikes. Anyone know how a startup protects themselves from liability in this kind of situation?

freehunter 14y ago
Attorneys. No matter what, make sure you have an attorney on retainer. People sue and get sued, and businesses have much more exposure to a lot more and varied types of people. If you're an even moderate business success, you'll be getting calls from lawyers or you'll be getting someone who tries to skirt your policy based on a loophole in your TOS/AUP/etc. Lawyer up. If you don't have the money for a lawyer to review your business with you, you're putting yourself and your customers at a risk that many would deem unacceptable.
1123581321 14y ago
You protect yourself by having proactive policies (e.g. Über will do well for themselves to show the extent of their background checks and driver training), business insurance and legal representation.
theorique 14y ago
Lawyer up, big time.
warfangle 14y ago
Given the driver was not employed by Uber, but employed by a limo company that uses Uber's technology...
- bdcravens 14y ago
  "Craigslist rapists" aren't employees of Craigslist either, yet there's still the negative stigma.
bdcravens 14y ago
It seems there's an attitude that startups that are "disrupting" don't play by the same rules as "traditional" businesses. (See the many discussions re Uber and AirBnB as they relate to local regulations) Business can be a very scary place, with risk - even when it has nothing to do with your company, PR association can be a killer. Situations like this are careful reminders that it takes more than a MacBook Air, 5 Hour Energy, and six weeks at an incubator desk to launch a successful business.
andrewguenther 14y ago
Yes, lawyer up, but I think many of these comments are missing the true lesson here. You need to take the proper precautions. Uber's screening of their drivers is laughable. Regulations don't exist solely to make your life miserable, and hopefully this incident, true or not, gives them the shock they need to understand their problem. While I appreciate what Uber's service is trying to accomplish, sacrificing safety is not the kind of "disruption" this industry needs.

sandbochs 14y ago

Hope they release the results of the DNA matching. Innocent until proven guilty.

snprbob86 14y ago

I don't really appreciate the fact that the suspect is named publicly, but the victim is not. It should be either neither, or both, preferably the former. Every time I see an article about rape, there are hints of bias to full on convictions in the court of public opinion. Innocent until proven guilty! Uber probably has GPS data for the Driver's phone. Did he linger at the destination long enough for a rape to occur? Or did he immediately begin traveling towards his next fare? There's a character witness for the driver, but what about for the woman? After all, she was just kicked out of a bar... What is the status of her injury? There's just not enough information here for this to justify as news quite yet.

rhdoenges 14y ago
> After all, she was just kicked out of a bar... What difference does this make?
- warfangle 14y ago
  None at all, unless you make a habit of victim blaming.
  - simcop2387 14y ago
    Not to diminish what is going on but at this point all we have is heresy, we don't know what actually happened. She could have been drunk enough that she thought it happened when it didn't (knew a few people like that, men and women in college), or she could have a history of making accusations (rape or not). It is also equally likely that something did happen to her and that her accusations are accurate and something should be done (prosecution). At this point we must wait until at least a judge has heard the case and if there is any kind of prosecution going forward. Only then can we even begin to form any kind of cogent opinion on the matter given all the variables and unanswered questions.
    - Avshalom 14y ago
      >Not to diminish what is going on but at this point all we have is heresy, we don't know what actually happened It is only ever sexual assault cases where this many calls for skepticism -as to whether a crime even happened- are made.

speeder 14y ago

Rape accusations, true or not, always end destroying the accused, specially because there are low penalties for false accusations, and the media is very fast in plastering the person name and photo everywhere. Also, being a driver is kinda dangerous regarding that, I have some driver friends, and they all have the same rule: They don't pick up lone women, period, it might be raining, hurricane, dust storm, middle of the night, day, whatever, if she is a woman, and alone, they don't pick up them, ever. It is because here in Brazil at least, is a very common scam to a women accuse a driver (be him professional, like a cabbie or Uber-like driver, or a volunteer that wants to help a hitchhiker) of rape, or make threats to accuse him unless he pays her something. On this case in particular, I think the best is wait for what a judge and evidence has to say.

Aloisius 14y ago
Why don't your driver friends just put a small camera in the cab? In the US this is fairly common in cabs, though not at all in towncars. It prevents a whole host of potential problems.
- rhdoenges 14y ago
  Seems the incident may have been recorded: > Messages related to the incident on neighborhood email groups state that the incident was caught on security cameras mounted to the victim's home. source: http://dcist.com/2013/03/uber_driver_charged_with_sexual_ass.php http://dcist.com/2013/03/uber_driver_charged_with_sexual_ass...
rhdoenges 14y ago
It says she paid her fare. What other motive could she have had to make this accusation? Unfortunately, there is little evidence to go on at this point aside from her testimony, so much of this discussion is mere speculation.
- Aloisius 14y ago
  It is an uber. The fare is automatically paid with or without her.

xanadohnt 14y ago

Why is Über even mentioned? How about some details on the manufacturer of the seat the driver was sitting on, maybe what barber he usues too? Regardless, this is tragic if true, and my heart goes out.

ryanhuff 14y ago
Uber is mentioned for the same reason why Craigslist is mentioned when something goes bad with a CL deal. It adds context to the story.
mikeash 14y ago
Same reason e.g. American Airlines would be mentioned if something similar happened with one of their pilots.
duaneb 14y ago
Uber doesn't really vet their drivers properly, or at least that's what I found with a little Googling. Uber should take responsibility because this person put trust in their service and got raped. Now, it could be that Uber did vet the guy and he came up clean, but they should make that clear.
lawnchair_larry 14y ago
It's relevant. Uber are creating a network of unregulated cabs, and people have been voicing concerns over the consequences of that. It can happen with a regulated cab too, but it's probably a little more sensitive given that there are no regulations at all. These concerns are not mine, and I'm not taking a position for or against Uber, I'm just pointing this out.
- duaneb 14y ago
  It's a matter of trust in the brand, not of whether Uber could have prevented it.
- rtkwe 14y ago
  They still employ specially licensed driver just like cab companies. The regulations they don't have to deal with are things like availability and rate laws iirc.

cs702 14y ago

At least one critic of the company warned exactly about this a long while ago: "Laws don’t exist merely to frustrate the business ambitions of coastal hipsters: They also exist to protect the more vulnerable members of society. Back home in London (where such statistics are available), 11 women a month are attacked in unlicensed cabs, and unlicensed drivers are responsible for a horrifying 80 percent of all stranger rapes. If Uber doesn't have to follow licensing laws, then neither does any Tom, Dick, or Harry who chooses to paint the word 'TAXI' on the side of his car, and start offering rides via the Internet. A disruptive CEO will shrug (and there's a foreshadowing word) and insist that it’s not his fault that such criminals exist."[1] It appears this critic was right. -- [1] http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/24/travis-shrugged/ http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/24/travis-shrugged/ -- Edit: added "It appears," which more accurately conveys my position.

chc 14y ago
How does licensing ward off rape? I'm pretty sure I can warn that licensed cap drivers rape people and I'll be vindicated too.
Aloisius 14y ago
You can't just become an uber driver. They are licensed livery drivers registered with each state. I'm not sure it is any less stringent application than becoming a cab driver.
ataggart 14y ago
It's not clear to me how government licensing would prevent an already illegal rape.
- Retric 14y ago
  Tracking, people are far less likely to commit crimes if they need to be identified beforehand. Background checking, while far from foolproof it's both a deterrent and a preventative measure. Higher barriers to entry, if it takes significant amounts of effort and money to be able to drive a cab then people are both less likely to risk it and going to try something else to have their 'fun'.

ratpad 14y ago

How in the world is this an "Uber" driver... Doesn't he work for a company that's using Uber? Find this a bit of a sensationalized smear on the service to associate him so closely with it.

andrewguenther 14y ago
Uber approved him as a driver, he receives clients through Uber, he receives payments through Uber...

greenyoda 14y ago

Despite what the headline on HN says, the article states in the very first sentence that he was not charged with anything, and released: "District prosecutors on Thursday said they will not charge a limo driver who city police had arrested and accused of raping a 20-year-old customer outside her home in December." Edit: Looks like the news article used to have that same headline; it's still what the page title says. Apparently, the police got it wrong in their press conference: "Bill Miller, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office, told The Washington Post that the office was not charging Anouar Habib Trabelsi, even as a top D.C. police commander was holding a news conference outside police headquarters announcing the criminal charge."

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]