6 ms·

To bring up the obvious, I can't pass judgment on a woman who's had casual sex if I never know about it. The worst side effect of casual sex is its cultural ef

To bring up the obvious, I can't pass judgment on a woman who's had casual sex if I never know about it. The worst side effect of casual sex is its cultural effect. "Hookup culture" is extremely debased and elevates deviant behavior to accepted status, if not a social requirement in some circles (e.g. being inexperienced, even for moral reasons, is looked down upon by many women in New York). However, if the sex is entirely private, and doesn't involve the woman I end up marrying, then I don't know about it, it's none of my business, and I don't care. What I don't like is living in a culture that engenders distrust and dislike between the sexes, and encourages dishonorable behavior in young people. It seems like a lot of young American men behave unscrupulously and rack up a number not because they want to do so, but because of social pressures; they know most women won't respect them if they aren't at least as experienced as they are.

ahoyhere 18y ago
So young men sleep around only because they fear being looked down on by women who've slept around more? Very interesting social theories you have.
- time_management 18y ago
  I think it's a big part of why many young men play for variety and quantity instead of trying to form relationships. No man wants to be significantly less experienced than the woman he ends up marrying; that's just emasculating, and she almost certainly won't respect him.
sho 18y ago
To bring up the even more obvious, maybe you shouldn't be "passing judgement" at all. "The worst side effect of casual sex is its cultural effect." Mere speculation. ""Hookup culture" is extremely debased" In your opinion, perhaps; I have no problem with it, and seems natural enough. Let people do what they will. "and elevates deviant behavior to accepted status, if not a social requirement in some circles" I would love to hear why you think sex is "deviant". It seems natural and healthy to me; after all, we were all born with the equipment built right in. "being inexperienced, even for moral reasons, is looked down upon by many women in New York" Being inexperienced in any important skill is good reason to be looked down upon. Your "moral reasons" are likely baseless. Why don't you try going and getting a job and see what they think of your inexperience, "even for moral reasons". "However, if the sex is entirely private, and doesn't involve the woman I end up marrying, then I don't know about it, it's none of my business" Even if you do know about it, it's still none of your business. Who do you think you are? "What I don't like is living in a culture that engenders distrust and dislike between the sexes" I have the feeling that the "distrust and dislike" you are evidently experiencing has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with women learning about your ridiculous beliefs. You've certainly attracted your fair share of "distrust and dislike" right here, and most of us aren't even women. "and encourages dishonorable behavior in young people" That's your opinion, and yours alone. I doubt you can back it up with anything other than "gut feeling". "It seems like a lot of young American men behave unscrupulously and rack up a number not because they want to do so, but because of social pressures" This is just laughable. I assure you, guys sleep with women because they want sex, not because of social pressure to "rack up numbers". And also, I love how you give a free pass to men (peer pressure!) but women are "immoral". "they know most women won't respect them if they aren't at least as experienced as they are." That's right. Women want to be treated right and they aren't interested in some hopeless n00b who doesn't know what to do. Like, say, you. What a bunch of confused, regurgitated nonsense. You need to stop making foolish excuses and just go and get laid already.
- ahoyhere 18y ago
  sho, you downvoted me, but do you see what I mean now? Maybe I didn't lay it out as clearly as you did. But my personal theory is he just posts this stuff to stir up shit, and see if he can convince some other marginalized guys to swing to his worldview, rather than any kind of actual question he wants answered. Every time the topic comes up (or he brings it up), he goes on and on about how American women are worthless this, and Sex and the City that. It's a twisted attempt at pedagogy (translation: trolling, with a purpose), not Hacker News.
  - sho 18y ago
    I upvoted you on your next comment. Of course I agree with your sentiments (in this instance), I just don't like the use of labels in general. Nothing personal. Even so, I don't think "sexist" and "mysogynist" really cover it. It's more just general confusion and misguided thinking, the women-related stuff just seems like a sort of byproduct or artefact. I won't speculate on reasons, I'm not a psychologist. Anyway, yes, I also suspect a single-issue pedagogue with an axe to grind. Ah well, c'est la vie. And no, it's definitely not Hacker News. (edited to remove badly-explained, extreme example of voting standards)
    - ahoyhere 18y ago
      I didn't recommend banning him, I recommended that people pay attention to what they are upvoting.
      - sho 18y ago
        I'm not calling for anyone to be banned. But don't worry too much about a few numbers on a website; it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
- time_management 18y ago
  I'm not going to reply to most of this, but a couple points stick out. I would love to hear why you think sex is "deviant". It seems natural and healthy to me; after all, we were all born with the equipment built right in. I think casual sex is deviant, not sex as a whole. The "equipment" may be "built right in", but its purpose is not to be used lightly and indiscriminately. After all, it can make babies. Look around at the sorts of people who have a lot of casual sex. Do you seriously want them to be highly represented in humanity's genetic future, and the sorts of relationships they would have if bound together for 18 years to comprise the environment in which the next generation is raised? Being inexperienced in any important skill is good reason to be looked down upon. You're conflating "inexperienced" with "unskilled". I don't think there's much of a correlation. If anything, people who are overexperienced tend to be shitty lovers, because they've never need to develop any skills. If someone's that good, why would s/he have slept with 20 other people and still not found someone who came back and wanted to make it a relationship?

ahoyhere 18y ago

So young men sleep around only because they fear being looked down on by women who've slept around more? Very interesting social theories you have.

time_management 18y ago
I think it's a big part of why many young men play for variety and quantity instead of trying to form relationships. No man wants to be significantly less experienced than the woman he ends up marrying; that's just emasculating, and she almost certainly won't respect him.

sho 18y ago

To bring up the even more obvious, maybe you shouldn't be "passing judgement" at all. "The worst side effect of casual sex is its cultural effect." Mere speculation. ""Hookup culture" is extremely debased" In your opinion, perhaps; I have no problem with it, and seems natural enough. Let people do what they will. "and elevates deviant behavior to accepted status, if not a social requirement in some circles" I would love to hear why you think sex is "deviant". It seems natural and healthy to me; after all, we were all born with the equipment built right in. "being inexperienced, even for moral reasons, is looked down upon by many women in New York" Being inexperienced in any important skill is good reason to be looked down upon. Your "moral reasons" are likely baseless. Why don't you try going and getting a job and see what they think of your inexperience, "even for moral reasons". "However, if the sex is entirely private, and doesn't involve the woman I end up marrying, then I don't know about it, it's none of my business" Even if you do know about it, it's still none of your business. Who do you think you are? "What I don't like is living in a culture that engenders distrust and dislike between the sexes" I have the feeling that the "distrust and dislike" you are evidently experiencing has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with women learning about your ridiculous beliefs. You've certainly attracted your fair share of "distrust and dislike" right here, and most of us aren't even women. "and encourages dishonorable behavior in young people" That's your opinion, and yours alone. I doubt you can back it up with anything other than "gut feeling". "It seems like a lot of young American men behave unscrupulously and rack up a number not because they want to do so, but because of social pressures" This is just laughable. I assure you, guys sleep with women because they want sex, not because of social pressure to "rack up numbers". And also, I love how you give a free pass to men (peer pressure!) but women are "immoral". "they know most women won't respect them if they aren't at least as experienced as they are." That's right. Women want to be treated right and they aren't interested in some hopeless n00b who doesn't know what to do. Like, say, you. What a bunch of confused, regurgitated nonsense. You need to stop making foolish excuses and just go and get laid already.

ahoyhere 18y ago
sho, you downvoted me, but do you see what I mean now? Maybe I didn't lay it out as clearly as you did. But my personal theory is he just posts this stuff to stir up shit, and see if he can convince some other marginalized guys to swing to his worldview, rather than any kind of actual question he wants answered. Every time the topic comes up (or he brings it up), he goes on and on about how American women are worthless this, and Sex and the City that. It's a twisted attempt at pedagogy (translation: trolling, with a purpose), not Hacker News.
- sho 18y ago
  I upvoted you on your next comment. Of course I agree with your sentiments (in this instance), I just don't like the use of labels in general. Nothing personal. Even so, I don't think "sexist" and "mysogynist" really cover it. It's more just general confusion and misguided thinking, the women-related stuff just seems like a sort of byproduct or artefact. I won't speculate on reasons, I'm not a psychologist. Anyway, yes, I also suspect a single-issue pedagogue with an axe to grind. Ah well, c'est la vie. And no, it's definitely not Hacker News. (edited to remove badly-explained, extreme example of voting standards)
  - ahoyhere 18y ago
    I didn't recommend banning him, I recommended that people pay attention to what they are upvoting.
    - sho 18y ago
      I'm not calling for anyone to be banned. But don't worry too much about a few numbers on a website; it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
time_management 18y ago
I'm not going to reply to most of this, but a couple points stick out. I would love to hear why you think sex is "deviant". It seems natural and healthy to me; after all, we were all born with the equipment built right in. I think casual sex is deviant, not sex as a whole. The "equipment" may be "built right in", but its purpose is not to be used lightly and indiscriminately. After all, it can make babies. Look around at the sorts of people who have a lot of casual sex. Do you seriously want them to be highly represented in humanity's genetic future, and the sorts of relationships they would have if bound together for 18 years to comprise the environment in which the next generation is raised? Being inexperienced in any important skill is good reason to be looked down upon. You're conflating "inexperienced" with "unskilled". I don't think there's much of a correlation. If anything, people who are overexperienced tend to be shitty lovers, because they've never need to develop any skills. If someone's that good, why would s/he have slept with 20 other people and still not found someone who came back and wanted to make it a relationship?