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This is accurate. Being poor is expensive (paradoxically?) in a lot of ways. One of them is the amount of attention that you have to give to stupid details, and

This is accurate. Being poor is expensive (paradoxically?) in a lot of ways. One of them is the amount of attention that you have to give to stupid details, and the amount of stuff you end up lugging around. It clutters your life to be poor. That NYT article was just douche-tastic. As someone who genuinely detests consumerism, I can't tolerate that whole "I'm rich and enlightened so I've given up stuff" braggadocio. That is consumerism. Only an idiot wouldn't see that. (Of course, there are genuine minimalists out there and I have no problem with that.) I also hate the people who think travel makes them more interesting and virtuous. Most people, most cases? No, not at all. You might become more interesting if you spend a month in an Indian monastery, or building schools in Africa. However, going to clubs and getting drunk doesn't count. You can do that here. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's recreation, not automatically a promotion of the spirit.

zobzu 14y ago
Uff, makes too much sense, nobody replies. So I will: hey, dude, you're right. I'm glad someone writes these things every now and then.
rdl 14y ago
It's kind of screwed up how poor people end up paying more for the same things than rich people do (for consumables, mainly -- rich people stores tend to price-discriminate for capital goods) -- when I lived in the TL, the local "corner sto" would charge 2x what Safeway 15 blocks away charged for the same item, and 3-4x what Costco or Amazon would charge. (and of course rich people get given free stuff all the time, whereas places catering to poor people lock up the toilet paper)
- kyllo 14y ago
  Two words: check cashing. Poor people don't get bank accounts, so they have to give these places a slice of every paycheck.
  - shawabawa3 14y ago
    What? Surely anyone with an address can open a bank account?
    - bcbrown 14y ago
      I worked in a warehouse once with a guy who didn't have a bank account and had to go to check cashing places to cash his paycheck. He used to have a bank account, but at some point he ran into overdraft fees, so he'd have to pay a couple hundred dollars to settle that out before he can access the banking system. He couldn't afford that.
      - rdl 14y ago
        The painful thing is the "lower interchange fees for debit cards" thing essentially killed free checking and savings accounts for most low-income people (other than at credit unions). Those people don't have $2500 balances, or direct deposit, or linked mortgages, so they end up paying $5-25/mo in fees.
    - kyllo 14y ago
      You'd think so, but unfortunately it's not the case. Banks are very effective at excluding poor people through a combination of: -Minimum initial deposit to open an account -In the US, much higher minimum initial deposit if you don't have a social security number (this excludes non-wealthy immigrants) -Monthly maintenance fees if your average daily balance for the month dips below x -Overdraft fees if your balance ever dips below 0 -Additional fees from the payee if you ever bounce a check when paying a bill These policies are practically invisible to wealthy customers, but pose insurmountable barriers to entry for the poor.
      - graeme 14y ago
        I was going to say 'what about online banks, they're free', but realized that that requires a computer, internet connection, and tech literacy. Things more likely to be lacking amongst the disadvantaged.
- rayiner 14y ago
  Not to mention tax-free benefits like healthcare, etc.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  There is also a theft problem, both from shop lifting and employees. Given the slim margins in a grocery store it can be the difference between staying around and not.
- clavalle 14y ago
  You couldn't be more right. I've seen brand new Jaguars test driven for a month. $30K Persian rugs lent out. Really nice dinners and trips paid for with full entertainment. Vendors that cater to the wealthy bend over backwards to please just to get in the door. If you have no shame about disappointing these sales people you can get freebies that most people wouldn't believe.
aaron695 14y ago
> I also hate the people who think travel makes them more interesting and virtuous You can think that but you're wrong. Travel opens the mind a hell of a lot. (And no it's not travel if you are in the same country) What is pretentious BS is if you "spend a month in an Indian monastery, or building schools in Africa" These are total rubbish, OK sure you'll learn some stuff, it's still travel but Africans earn a dollar or two a day, you've just added $12-$24 to their economy, nice work. Travel the world and have fun. Don't do the tourist BS like going to monasteries, these are wanabee travel collectors interests. Go to night club, ride a bike, do what you do at home and learn the real stuff. OK sure you do have to do the tourist stuff, how else do you get to experience a crazy Tut-tut or a packed out bus. But remember it's the journey not the destination. And lastly not everybody can afford to travel, and that's sad. But just because it's sad there no point trying to pretend travel doesn't make people better. It's like access to school, yes it makes people better, yes not everyone can afford it, but don't just write it off. Work out ways to change this.
- mc32 14y ago
  Isn't travel (specially foreign and not migration) one of the high marks of consumerism? I.e. it's an expression of disposable time/income. It also entails lots of resource allocation. What's more consumerist, 1,000 bucks worth of travel or 1,000 bucks of stuff off of Amazon?
  - capisce 14y ago
    Experiences consistently rank higher than possessions when it comes to providing happiness. Regarding the term, quoting the Wikipedia page on consumerism: "Consumerism is a social and economic order that encourages the purchase of goods and services in ever-greater amounts." The page says nothing about travelling or tourism.
    - justincormack 14y ago
      Tourism is consumption of services.
    - 14y ago

zobzu 14y ago

Uff, makes too much sense, nobody replies. So I will: hey, dude, you're right. I'm glad someone writes these things every now and then.

rdl 14y ago

It's kind of screwed up how poor people end up paying more for the same things than rich people do (for consumables, mainly -- rich people stores tend to price-discriminate for capital goods) -- when I lived in the TL, the local "corner sto" would charge 2x what Safeway 15 blocks away charged for the same item, and 3-4x what Costco or Amazon would charge. (and of course rich people get given free stuff all the time, whereas places catering to poor people lock up the toilet paper)

kyllo 14y ago
Two words: check cashing. Poor people don't get bank accounts, so they have to give these places a slice of every paycheck.
- shawabawa3 14y ago
  What? Surely anyone with an address can open a bank account?
  - bcbrown 14y ago
    I worked in a warehouse once with a guy who didn't have a bank account and had to go to check cashing places to cash his paycheck. He used to have a bank account, but at some point he ran into overdraft fees, so he'd have to pay a couple hundred dollars to settle that out before he can access the banking system. He couldn't afford that.
    - rdl 14y ago
      The painful thing is the "lower interchange fees for debit cards" thing essentially killed free checking and savings accounts for most low-income people (other than at credit unions). Those people don't have $2500 balances, or direct deposit, or linked mortgages, so they end up paying $5-25/mo in fees.
  - kyllo 14y ago
    You'd think so, but unfortunately it's not the case. Banks are very effective at excluding poor people through a combination of: -Minimum initial deposit to open an account -In the US, much higher minimum initial deposit if you don't have a social security number (this excludes non-wealthy immigrants) -Monthly maintenance fees if your average daily balance for the month dips below x -Overdraft fees if your balance ever dips below 0 -Additional fees from the payee if you ever bounce a check when paying a bill These policies are practically invisible to wealthy customers, but pose insurmountable barriers to entry for the poor.
    - graeme 14y ago
      I was going to say 'what about online banks, they're free', but realized that that requires a computer, internet connection, and tech literacy. Things more likely to be lacking amongst the disadvantaged.
rayiner 14y ago
Not to mention tax-free benefits like healthcare, etc.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
There is also a theft problem, both from shop lifting and employees. Given the slim margins in a grocery store it can be the difference between staying around and not.
clavalle 14y ago
You couldn't be more right. I've seen brand new Jaguars test driven for a month. $30K Persian rugs lent out. Really nice dinners and trips paid for with full entertainment. Vendors that cater to the wealthy bend over backwards to please just to get in the door. If you have no shame about disappointing these sales people you can get freebies that most people wouldn't believe.

aaron695 14y ago

> I also hate the people who think travel makes them more interesting and virtuous You can think that but you're wrong. Travel opens the mind a hell of a lot. (And no it's not travel if you are in the same country) What is pretentious BS is if you "spend a month in an Indian monastery, or building schools in Africa" These are total rubbish, OK sure you'll learn some stuff, it's still travel but Africans earn a dollar or two a day, you've just added $12-$24 to their economy, nice work. Travel the world and have fun. Don't do the tourist BS like going to monasteries, these are wanabee travel collectors interests. Go to night club, ride a bike, do what you do at home and learn the real stuff. OK sure you do have to do the tourist stuff, how else do you get to experience a crazy Tut-tut or a packed out bus. But remember it's the journey not the destination. And lastly not everybody can afford to travel, and that's sad. But just because it's sad there no point trying to pretend travel doesn't make people better. It's like access to school, yes it makes people better, yes not everyone can afford it, but don't just write it off. Work out ways to change this.

mc32 14y ago
Isn't travel (specially foreign and not migration) one of the high marks of consumerism? I.e. it's an expression of disposable time/income. It also entails lots of resource allocation. What's more consumerist, 1,000 bucks worth of travel or 1,000 bucks of stuff off of Amazon?
- capisce 14y ago
  Experiences consistently rank higher than possessions when it comes to providing happiness. Regarding the term, quoting the Wikipedia page on consumerism: "Consumerism is a social and economic order that encourages the purchase of goods and services in ever-greater amounts." The page says nothing about travelling or tourism.
  - justincormack 14y ago
    Tourism is consumption of services.
  - 14y ago