4 ms·

What I wonder is: by pricing out the not-already-rich, does real estate hyperinflation actually destroy the engine of youthful ambition that created the success

by api 14y ago

What I wonder is: by pricing out the not-already-rich, does real estate hyperinflation actually destroy the engine of youthful ambition that created the success in the first place? I mean, $3000/month rent for a one-room apartment makes it very hard to take the risk of founding a startup at 22.

kiba 14y ago
It probably takes a while before everyone notice. Problems like this usually stays around until after we hit the end of our growth phrase.
wtracy 14y ago
I'm curious, where are you having trouble finding one-room apartments for under $3000/month? Throughout the South Bay, I'm seeing prices between $1000 and $2000/month for one-bedroom apartments (not one-room apartments!). Even that gets a bit of sticker shock when I tell friends outside the Bay Area about prices here.
- fzzzy 14y ago
  The $3000 figure is probably referring to San Francisco. $2000 a month for a one bedroom in Mountain View is a fantasy. Sure, you can go south to sunnyvale or further, but that adds quite a significant commute if one is working in Palo Alto/Mountain View.
  - milkshakes 14y ago
    For what it's worth, I lived in MV (rengstorff and sierra vista) for a year last year, in a 2 bedroom I kept all to myself for $1800 a month. It had a lovely back yard with a family BBQ area.
    - fzzzy 14y ago
      Wow, sounds like you lucked out.
      - milkshakes 14y ago
        You, too can be this lucky (adjusted for inflation): http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa/pen?zoomToPosting=&altView=&query=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=2100&bedrooms=1&nh=81 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa/pen?zoomToPosting=&#3...
  - wtracy 14y ago
    Just browsing through the first Google hit for "one bedroom mountain view" got me this: http://www.apartments.com/California/Mountain-View/Avalon-at-Creekside/19079# http://www.apartments.com/California/Mountain-View/Avalon-at... One bedroom for "$1565-1725". I don't know if that apartment is actually available at that price, but $2000/month for one bedroom looks doable.
ahoyhere 14y ago
Nope. The ambitious will simply take their ambition somewhere else. There will be a tipping point (and we must be close to it) where the market cannot bear it any more, and the market will fracture/move. "Disruption" on the geographic level instead of corporate level. Example: We own a gorgeous 1550 sq ft house, built in the mid-1700s with lots of character, complete with 800 sq ft garden in what we believe is the coolest part of Philadelphia… and we pay less than $2400/mo including taxes and insurance. Right around the corner, there are tons of tech biz (the kind that make money) including all the entrepreneurs at IndyHall, AppRenaissance, the makers of Postmark, etc., and everyone's favorite ecommerce-dev-shop-meets-bar-restaurant, Weblinc/National Mechanics. And: we really splurged on our house. There are very nice 1br rentals from the mid-$1k right here, with new kitchens and lovely architectural details, and you could rent for half that if you were willing to take the subway 15 minutes. Philly has a great entrepreneurial culture, a welcoming network, and it's cheap. Bonus: a newcomer here has more of a chance to distinguish themselves because the local "market" isn't flooded with a bunch of clones. A city can only support so many "ambitious" 22-year-olds before it becomes a sea of sameness and the fight to be noticed outweighs any potential for "networking."
- eksith 14y ago
  The ambitious will simply take their ambition somewhere else... Easier said than done.
  - ahoyhere 14y ago
    "Easier said than done" is itself easier said than backed up.
    - eksith 14y ago
      I've been where some of these people are. I haven't been outright homeless and sleeping outdoors, but once upon a time I did have everything I own to fit basically in the same area as half a mattress. In the town I was in at the time, the only comfort was that I knew were food and basic services were. You just don't up and leave those behind cause it "might" be easier elsewhere. In that kind of atmosphere, I used my school library to learn web programming as much as possible, since our CS class was only teaching basic C++ (PHP just reached 3.0), and somehow, I scraped together enough cash (mostly borrowed) to put up a small website. By some miracle, I found work as a designer and with the basics I learned on several forums and with my pirated copy of Photoshop 5, I slowly made enough cash to pay rent and finally move to some place to stretch my limbs out. It's a slow and painful transition that's impossible to do if you just "take their ambition somewhere else". No, I nurtured my ambition where I was until I could actually get somewhere else. Empathy is a terribly scarce commodity it seems.
eksith 14y ago
That's pretty much on par with a lot of places in New York. It's still possible to found a startup at 22 with those kinds of expenses, but your margins are basically non-existent. And as you say, it's does weigh heavily on the ambitions of many. Your enthusiasm will also go out the window when you're debating whether to spend money on food and utilities vs a roof over your head.

by api 14y ago

kiba 14y ago

It probably takes a while before everyone notice. Problems like this usually stays around until after we hit the end of our growth phrase.

wtracy 14y ago

I'm curious, where are you having trouble finding one-room apartments for under $3000/month? Throughout the South Bay, I'm seeing prices between $1000 and $2000/month for one-bedroom apartments (not one-room apartments!). Even that gets a bit of sticker shock when I tell friends outside the Bay Area about prices here.

fzzzy 14y ago
The $3000 figure is probably referring to San Francisco. $2000 a month for a one bedroom in Mountain View is a fantasy. Sure, you can go south to sunnyvale or further, but that adds quite a significant commute if one is working in Palo Alto/Mountain View.
- milkshakes 14y ago
  For what it's worth, I lived in MV (rengstorff and sierra vista) for a year last year, in a 2 bedroom I kept all to myself for $1800 a month. It had a lovely back yard with a family BBQ area.
  - fzzzy 14y ago
    Wow, sounds like you lucked out.
    - milkshakes 14y ago
      You, too can be this lucky (adjusted for inflation): http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa/pen?zoomToPosting=&altView=&query=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=2100&bedrooms=1&nh=81 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa/pen?zoomToPosting=&#3...
- wtracy 14y ago
  Just browsing through the first Google hit for "one bedroom mountain view" got me this: http://www.apartments.com/California/Mountain-View/Avalon-at-Creekside/19079# http://www.apartments.com/California/Mountain-View/Avalon-at... One bedroom for "$1565-1725". I don't know if that apartment is actually available at that price, but $2000/month for one bedroom looks doable.

ahoyhere 14y ago

Nope. The ambitious will simply take their ambition somewhere else. There will be a tipping point (and we must be close to it) where the market cannot bear it any more, and the market will fracture/move. "Disruption" on the geographic level instead of corporate level. Example: We own a gorgeous 1550 sq ft house, built in the mid-1700s with lots of character, complete with 800 sq ft garden in what we believe is the coolest part of Philadelphia… and we pay less than $2400/mo including taxes and insurance. Right around the corner, there are tons of tech biz (the kind that make money) including all the entrepreneurs at IndyHall, AppRenaissance, the makers of Postmark, etc., and everyone's favorite ecommerce-dev-shop-meets-bar-restaurant, Weblinc/National Mechanics. And: we really splurged on our house. There are very nice 1br rentals from the mid-$1k right here, with new kitchens and lovely architectural details, and you could rent for half that if you were willing to take the subway 15 minutes. Philly has a great entrepreneurial culture, a welcoming network, and it's cheap. Bonus: a newcomer here has more of a chance to distinguish themselves because the local "market" isn't flooded with a bunch of clones. A city can only support so many "ambitious" 22-year-olds before it becomes a sea of sameness and the fight to be noticed outweighs any potential for "networking."

eksith 14y ago
The ambitious will simply take their ambition somewhere else... Easier said than done.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  "Easier said than done" is itself easier said than backed up.
  - eksith 14y ago
    I've been where some of these people are. I haven't been outright homeless and sleeping outdoors, but once upon a time I did have everything I own to fit basically in the same area as half a mattress. In the town I was in at the time, the only comfort was that I knew were food and basic services were. You just don't up and leave those behind cause it "might" be easier elsewhere. In that kind of atmosphere, I used my school library to learn web programming as much as possible, since our CS class was only teaching basic C++ (PHP just reached 3.0), and somehow, I scraped together enough cash (mostly borrowed) to put up a small website. By some miracle, I found work as a designer and with the basics I learned on several forums and with my pirated copy of Photoshop 5, I slowly made enough cash to pay rent and finally move to some place to stretch my limbs out. It's a slow and painful transition that's impossible to do if you just "take their ambition somewhere else". No, I nurtured my ambition where I was until I could actually get somewhere else. Empathy is a terribly scarce commodity it seems.

eksith 14y ago

That's pretty much on par with a lot of places in New York. It's still possible to found a startup at 22 with those kinds of expenses, but your margins are basically non-existent. And as you say, it's does weigh heavily on the ambitions of many. Your enthusiasm will also go out the window when you're debating whether to spend money on food and utilities vs a roof over your head.