5 ms·

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely n

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary people to take all the risk for him, and get nothing back in return.

lnanek2 14y ago
Even rich people here in SV often take investment for their new startups after the first. It's silly to go it alone, risk everything, and not recruit people with skin in the game. Even if he didn't need the money, it's worth it for the PR alone, which will benefit everyone into the game since it will take longer to die a lonely death.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  >Even rich people here in SV often take investment for their new startups after the first. Yes, in exchange for something. They don't ask for funding from people and offer them nothing in return, forcing them to take all the risk while he stands to make all the profit.
autarch 14y ago
Or ... this is a good way for him to see if there's actual interest in the product. And given his track record of actually finishing stuff, it seems like this is relatively low risk as far as Kickstarter projects go.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  Neither of your points address the concern I raised. This is a guy who paid $30M to go in to space for fun. A guy who lives in a castle. If he wants to make a game, he can. He doesn't need kickstarter at all. He is simply using it to make a game for free, rather than investing in it personally. The idea behind kickstarter was to allow people who couldn't get funding through traditional channels an opportunity to appeal directly to their potential customer base for funding. Not a way to make rich people richer with no risk to themselves.
  - speeder 14y ago
    Note: He did not go to space for fun. He is major shareholder in a couple of space-related business, and he do active science work in space and ice caps. Also he wanted to follow his father footsteps (his father is a astronaut that actually went to space). But yes, he could have paid the game himself...
  - NoPiece 14y ago
    You have a more narrow view of what Kickstarter is than most, and more narrow than Kickstarter itself. All they say about themselves is, "Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects." If you don't like it don't fund it, but if it is any consolation, big projects like this bring a lot more eyeballs and money to Kickstater, and will end up helping smaller projects get funded. I had never funded anything until Doublefine Adventure, but now I found at least one thing a month.
  - kyrra 14y ago
    1) He has been trying to sell a lot of his land and fancy house in Austin for a couple years now [1] [2]. It's hard to say how much he's worth anymore with the money he's spent on other projects. 2) He married an investment banker[3] who I'm sure has a lot more financial sense than he does and doesn't want him throwing his personal money at the game. 3) The company make this game (Portalarium) had some layoffs a few months back[4]. I'm guessing they are trying to get funding to keep the company going as they don't seem to be working under any publisher. 4) Richard Garriott has a following in the gaming industry that he may as well use to keep his project going. Just like he did with Ultima Online back in the day (had to pay to be in the beta as EA didn't want to back his project), he is going to people to help keep the game funded. [1] http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8207-Two-Coves-Dr_Austin_TX_78730_M80342-14958 http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8207-Two-Co... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Manor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Manor [3] http://blogs.forbes.com/people/laetitiagarriottdecayeux/ http://blogs.forbes.com/people/laetitiagarriottdecayeux/ [4] http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/17/portalarium-hit-with-layoffs/ http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/17/portalarium-hit-with...
  - gavanwoolery 14y ago
    EA acquired Origin for $35,000,000. If I remember correctly, Garriott only walked with $20,000,000 -- before taxes. I think his lawsuit with NC Soft netted him $32 million -- before taxes as well. 52 million taxed is maybe 30 million out the door (very rough estimate here). His space trip cost 30 million alone, nevermind everything else in his life. I would estimate that Garriott probably has a few million dollars in the bank, none of which he should have to risk on a venture that fans are willing to pay for.
jiggy2011 14y ago
Nothing apart from a game?
finnh 14y ago
? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...
- papsosouid 14y ago
  Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it personally instead of taking VC money, I specifically said taking VC money was one of the two options he should have taken.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    How is it an abuse? Because you don't like it? How about treating the backers like adults who can make their own decisions? Your position comes across as very patronizing.
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      Because it is contrary to the stated purpose of kickstarter. I am treating the backers like adults. Why do you think that "hey, that's really not what kickstarter is for" is patronizing?
      - NoPiece 14y ago
        You say it is contrary to the stated purpose of Kickstarter. Can you link or quote something to back that up? All I've ever seen them say is that it is a platform to fund creative projects. This is a creative project. For game developers, even millionaire game developers, Kickstarter offers some level of freedom from real big bilion dollar game publishing corporations. So even if Richard Gariott has a lot of money, maybe you can at least appreciate he is a little guy in the context of the game publishing business.
adventured 14y ago
He's exchanging money for copies of the game, not to mention other trinkets, as a form of funding. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and he isn't abusing crowd funding. Quite the opposite in fact. You act like people are being forced to pay up for the kick starter. What you apparently want to change is free will.
clavalle 14y ago
Well, the risk for people backing someone with his track record is pretty minimal. I agree with you, though. To me the spirit of kickstarter is getting the small folk off the ground not as a pre-order channel for established players. Kickstarter or someone else should spin off a cleverly named 'pre-order/guage public interest' site.
Apocryphon 14y ago
I think that for projects like this, Kickstarter is becoming less a place to raise funding, but more of a place to gather publicity. The site is fast becoming a household name and as far as games go, has high prestige for a place where alternative, retro, hardcore games go to be revived.
hoggle 14y ago
Lord British is back, that alone is enough for me. I love that man, he is always willing to push the boundaries - a very rare in prohibitively nowadays expensive game dev world. Why should he risk his kingdom when he can assess interest very effectively with Kickstarter while maintaining more creative freedom (either by having more leverage in negotiations with publishers and/or banks). One million dollar is nothing in comparison to most AAA games, it will still be risky. I love the thought of being able to help kick starting another Ultima project! Love & peace my friend.
picklefish 14y ago
He was rich. He spent most of his money fulfilling his lifelong dream to go into space. (His dad was an astronaut...) He has a half-built "castle" in Austin which he had to stop building because of his space endeavor. He hasn't had a successful game in a long time. Since UO, really. He may have gotten some money from NCSoft lawsuit / settlement recently but I don't remember which way it went.

lnanek2 14y ago

Even rich people here in SV often take investment for their new startups after the first. It's silly to go it alone, risk everything, and not recruit people with skin in the game. Even if he didn't need the money, it's worth it for the PR alone, which will benefit everyone into the game since it will take longer to die a lonely death.

papsosouid 14y ago
>Even rich people here in SV often take investment for their new startups after the first. Yes, in exchange for something. They don't ask for funding from people and offer them nothing in return, forcing them to take all the risk while he stands to make all the profit.

autarch 14y ago

Or ... this is a good way for him to see if there's actual interest in the product. And given his track record of actually finishing stuff, it seems like this is relatively low risk as far as Kickstarter projects go.

papsosouid 14y ago
Neither of your points address the concern I raised. This is a guy who paid $30M to go in to space for fun. A guy who lives in a castle. If he wants to make a game, he can. He doesn't need kickstarter at all. He is simply using it to make a game for free, rather than investing in it personally. The idea behind kickstarter was to allow people who couldn't get funding through traditional channels an opportunity to appeal directly to their potential customer base for funding. Not a way to make rich people richer with no risk to themselves.
- speeder 14y ago
  Note: He did not go to space for fun. He is major shareholder in a couple of space-related business, and he do active science work in space and ice caps. Also he wanted to follow his father footsteps (his father is a astronaut that actually went to space). But yes, he could have paid the game himself...
- NoPiece 14y ago
  You have a more narrow view of what Kickstarter is than most, and more narrow than Kickstarter itself. All they say about themselves is, "Kickstarter is a funding platform for creative projects." If you don't like it don't fund it, but if it is any consolation, big projects like this bring a lot more eyeballs and money to Kickstater, and will end up helping smaller projects get funded. I had never funded anything until Doublefine Adventure, but now I found at least one thing a month.
- kyrra 14y ago
  1) He has been trying to sell a lot of his land and fancy house in Austin for a couple years now [1] [2]. It's hard to say how much he's worth anymore with the money he's spent on other projects. 2) He married an investment banker[3] who I'm sure has a lot more financial sense than he does and doesn't want him throwing his personal money at the game. 3) The company make this game (Portalarium) had some layoffs a few months back[4]. I'm guessing they are trying to get funding to keep the company going as they don't seem to be working under any publisher. 4) Richard Garriott has a following in the gaming industry that he may as well use to keep his project going. Just like he did with Ultima Online back in the day (had to pay to be in the beta as EA didn't want to back his project), he is going to people to help keep the game funded. [1] http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8207-Two-Coves-Dr_Austin_TX_78730_M80342-14958 http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8207-Two-Co... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Manor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Manor [3] http://blogs.forbes.com/people/laetitiagarriottdecayeux/ http://blogs.forbes.com/people/laetitiagarriottdecayeux/ [4] http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/17/portalarium-hit-with-layoffs/ http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/17/portalarium-hit-with...
- gavanwoolery 14y ago
  EA acquired Origin for $35,000,000. If I remember correctly, Garriott only walked with $20,000,000 -- before taxes. I think his lawsuit with NC Soft netted him $32 million -- before taxes as well. 52 million taxed is maybe 30 million out the door (very rough estimate here). His space trip cost 30 million alone, nevermind everything else in his life. I would estimate that Garriott probably has a few million dollars in the bank, none of which he should have to risk on a venture that fans are willing to pay for.

jiggy2011 14y ago

Nothing apart from a game?

finnh 14y ago

? Kickstarter functions in this case as a pre-ordering process. They do not "get nothing back in return" - they get a copy of the game when it's done. That's like saying that rich entrepeneurs should fully fund their next company, rather than seeking VC. Sure, it's one way to do it, but it's not the only way...

papsosouid 14y ago
Except VCs get equity, they get a return on their investment. Not a copy of the product. Do you think ycombinator should have funded dropbox in exchange for a free dropbox account? Like I said in the post you replied to, he has access to VC funding. He chose not to take it because he can abuse kickstarter to get the same funds without giving up anything in return. It is nothing like saying they should fund it personally instead of taking VC money, I specifically said taking VC money was one of the two options he should have taken.
- icebraining 14y ago
  How is it an abuse? Because you don't like it? How about treating the backers like adults who can make their own decisions? Your position comes across as very patronizing.
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    Because it is contrary to the stated purpose of kickstarter. I am treating the backers like adults. Why do you think that "hey, that's really not what kickstarter is for" is patronizing?
    - NoPiece 14y ago
      You say it is contrary to the stated purpose of Kickstarter. Can you link or quote something to back that up? All I've ever seen them say is that it is a platform to fund creative projects. This is a creative project. For game developers, even millionaire game developers, Kickstarter offers some level of freedom from real big bilion dollar game publishing corporations. So even if Richard Gariott has a lot of money, maybe you can at least appreciate he is a little guy in the context of the game publishing business.

adventured 14y ago

He's exchanging money for copies of the game, not to mention other trinkets, as a form of funding. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and he isn't abusing crowd funding. Quite the opposite in fact. You act like people are being forced to pay up for the kick starter. What you apparently want to change is free will.

clavalle 14y ago

Well, the risk for people backing someone with his track record is pretty minimal. I agree with you, though. To me the spirit of kickstarter is getting the small folk off the ground not as a pre-order channel for established players. Kickstarter or someone else should spin off a cleverly named 'pre-order/guage public interest' site.

Apocryphon 14y ago

I think that for projects like this, Kickstarter is becoming less a place to raise funding, but more of a place to gather publicity. The site is fast becoming a household name and as far as games go, has high prestige for a place where alternative, retro, hardcore games go to be revived.

hoggle 14y ago

Lord British is back, that alone is enough for me. I love that man, he is always willing to push the boundaries - a very rare in prohibitively nowadays expensive game dev world. Why should he risk his kingdom when he can assess interest very effectively with Kickstarter while maintaining more creative freedom (either by having more leverage in negotiations with publishers and/or banks). One million dollar is nothing in comparison to most AAA games, it will still be risky. I love the thought of being able to help kick starting another Ultima project! Love & peace my friend.

picklefish 14y ago

He was rich. He spent most of his money fulfilling his lifelong dream to go into space. (His dad was an astronaut...) He has a half-built "castle" in Austin which he had to stop building because of his space endeavor. He hasn't had a successful game in a long time. Since UO, really. He may have gotten some money from NCSoft lawsuit / settlement recently but I don't remember which way it went.