5 ms·

Having read the whole story, I can't help but think that he knew he was transporting drugs, but was duped into thinking he was doing it for the real Milani. Li

by IvyMike 14y ago

Having read the whole story, I can't help but think that he knew he was transporting drugs, but was duped into thinking he was doing it for the real Milani. Like all the best movie cons, you make the mark believe they're on the inside, but they're really not. Getting back to the egotism: This is speculation, but I think his thought process on the drug smuggling probably went like this: "I'm so much smarter than everyone else I've ever met, of COURSE I will get away with it, especially with my airtight excuse if I am caught." This kind of reminds me of Hans Reiser, whose egotism and belief in his own superiority was also his downfall.

api 14y ago
This is the origin of "you can't con an honest man." I was a victim of a very weird kind of con once, and I'm not ashamed to admit that my ego played a huge role in getting me to fall for it. Con men play to the mark's ego because because it works! (Luckily in my case I escaped with little loss, and didn't end up in an Argentine jail.)
- addlepate 14y ago
  You should probably be ashamed of that, at least a little bit. I would.
- kbenson 14y ago
  > you can't con an honest man. Unfortunately it's not true. There are a number of cons that apply towards people wanting to do the right thing (and usually mixing a bit of greed in as well), to make the pull twice as hard to resist. Check out the Glim-dropper scam[1]. I've heard it described in multiple variations (diamond ring at a gas station, wallet on the street, etc). Importantly, the mark is both making money, and providing help to someone who needs it. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks
  - itsybitsycoder 14y ago
    But in this scenario, an honest person would tell the finder about the reward and give him the contact info. It only works if the shopkeeper gets greedy and keeps the reward a secret.
    - kbenson 14y ago
      And then the finder miraculously has to be somewhere soon, or is traveling on their way somewhere else, and would happily give up a portion of the reward if they could just be allowed to leave... At that point, the less greedy the mark, the more they lose.
  - gimeq 14y ago
    The Glim-dropper scam involves the mark trying make money by inserting oneself as an intermediary who provides no benefit, concealing his true intentions. Outside of HN, that is considered dishonesty.
    - kbenson 14y ago
      I don't think it's quite as simple as that, and that you're ignoring all the possible ways it could play out. I saw it explained and performed once on a program where it was a lost wallet of some sort, and if/when the mark did not offer to insert themselves into the transaction, the person who "found" that wallet would explain that they needed to be somewhere soon, but aren't greedy, and would happily split the reward so they don't miss their meeting. In this case, the mark is helping not only the person who lost the wallet, but also the finder by allowing them to gain some reward money while not actually having to return the found item. In this case the mark has real reasons the could expect some financial gain: 1) There is an actual task to be accomplished, they must be intermediary for this item and deliver it to the recipient. 2) The recipient may very well be believed to be unavailable for some period, and the mark may feel that the financial loss constitutes during this period is non-zero. 3) There's risk involved, as they must put out some of teir own money for the transaction to take place, even if there is expected return. There will likely be a risk/reward ratio that makes sense internally. To me that very clearly makes it possibe that the mark is honest and non-greedy and will get taken by the con. Indeed, the more honest and generous the mark is, the more money the con makes.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    In the Glim scam, the target wants to get money he doesn't earn (neither by honest work nor by actually finding the supposed lost item) and profit by concealing information that is not supposed to be concealed (i.e. the contact info of the supposed one-eyed man). If he acted honestly, he'd say "oh, lucky you, you're getting a grand, here's the phone number!" and his loss would be $0.
  - phillmv 14y ago
    I think the honesty in here implies you wouldn't act greedily.
  - wisty 14y ago
    You're right. The "fake donation" scam is one example. As is the "long lost grandkid, who needs to pay his medical bills". But ... most scams do prey on greed - people assume that it's something illegal, but that it's not themselves getting ripped off by it.
seiji 14y ago
"I'm so much smarter than everyone else I've ever met, of COURSE I will get away with it" Sometimes this happens. See: Facebook y Google.
ryanmolden 14y ago
>I'm so much smarter than everyone else I've ever met People that seem to think this never seem to consider a simple explanation: Perhaps they just haven't met very smart people yet.
- lmm 14y ago
  Seems unlikely, unless very smart people spend their time in nonobvious places. (FWIW I went to quite possibly the best university in the world, and while my jobs since then have all been programming I've seen a wide variety of industries - and in one case, dealt with clients from many more. Apart from anything else, sheer sample size suggests I should've met at least a few of the very smart people by now. (That said I have met at least four people who were definitely smarter than me, and several more who might have been, which possibly doesn't put me in the category you're describing))
  - simonster 14y ago
    How do you dissociate the contributions of knowledge, motivation, and experience from intelligence?
  - ryanmolden 14y ago
    The world is a big place. Your admission that you have met people smarter than yourself may well put you in a different category. The people I talk of are the people that seem to honestly think they are the smartest people in the world/their industry. Unless they have occasion to interact with people on the level of Nobel laureates routinely, I suspect their sample may not include 'very smart people' (and I don't mean 'very smart', I mean VERY smart, i.e. I am not saying the people they have met have been dull, just that they may not be in the upper echelons of intelligence). Also, people's self-ranking of their own traits (especially something that is somewhat ill-defined, like intelligence) is notoriously less than objective. Just know that for some of the people you have met and consider yourself clearly smarter than, they may have the the opposite view and believe it just as assuredly as you.
  - mturmon 14y ago
    You come off as young and naive. Examples: The idea of there being an isolatable thing called "smart," and moreover that you could assess it (in relation to your own, even), and that it would admit a total ordering even if you could. Also, the idea that there might be a "best university in the world" -- across students and areas of study. This is a thing that I have observed people with limited life experience do. Like myself, some years ago.
fluidcruft 14y ago
I agree. When we got to the sms records part I was getting ready for the corruption angle wondering whether they were fabricated. However, there was absolutely no indication that the he even questioned their authenticity... instead he goes on to make some incredulous story to explain them... Clearly he thinks he's much smarter than anyone else in the room.

by IvyMike 14y ago

api 14y ago

This is the origin of "you can't con an honest man." I was a victim of a very weird kind of con once, and I'm not ashamed to admit that my ego played a huge role in getting me to fall for it. Con men play to the mark's ego because because it works! (Luckily in my case I escaped with little loss, and didn't end up in an Argentine jail.)

addlepate 14y ago
You should probably be ashamed of that, at least a little bit. I would.
kbenson 14y ago
> you can't con an honest man. Unfortunately it's not true. There are a number of cons that apply towards people wanting to do the right thing (and usually mixing a bit of greed in as well), to make the pull twice as hard to resist. Check out the Glim-dropper scam[1]. I've heard it described in multiple variations (diamond ring at a gas station, wallet on the street, etc). Importantly, the mark is both making money, and providing help to someone who needs it. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks
- itsybitsycoder 14y ago
  But in this scenario, an honest person would tell the finder about the reward and give him the contact info. It only works if the shopkeeper gets greedy and keeps the reward a secret.
  - kbenson 14y ago
    And then the finder miraculously has to be somewhere soon, or is traveling on their way somewhere else, and would happily give up a portion of the reward if they could just be allowed to leave... At that point, the less greedy the mark, the more they lose.
- gimeq 14y ago
  The Glim-dropper scam involves the mark trying make money by inserting oneself as an intermediary who provides no benefit, concealing his true intentions. Outside of HN, that is considered dishonesty.
  - kbenson 14y ago
    I don't think it's quite as simple as that, and that you're ignoring all the possible ways it could play out. I saw it explained and performed once on a program where it was a lost wallet of some sort, and if/when the mark did not offer to insert themselves into the transaction, the person who "found" that wallet would explain that they needed to be somewhere soon, but aren't greedy, and would happily split the reward so they don't miss their meeting. In this case, the mark is helping not only the person who lost the wallet, but also the finder by allowing them to gain some reward money while not actually having to return the found item. In this case the mark has real reasons the could expect some financial gain: 1) There is an actual task to be accomplished, they must be intermediary for this item and deliver it to the recipient. 2) The recipient may very well be believed to be unavailable for some period, and the mark may feel that the financial loss constitutes during this period is non-zero. 3) There's risk involved, as they must put out some of teir own money for the transaction to take place, even if there is expected return. There will likely be a risk/reward ratio that makes sense internally. To me that very clearly makes it possibe that the mark is honest and non-greedy and will get taken by the con. Indeed, the more honest and generous the mark is, the more money the con makes.
- smsm42 14y ago
  In the Glim scam, the target wants to get money he doesn't earn (neither by honest work nor by actually finding the supposed lost item) and profit by concealing information that is not supposed to be concealed (i.e. the contact info of the supposed one-eyed man). If he acted honestly, he'd say "oh, lucky you, you're getting a grand, here's the phone number!" and his loss would be $0.
- phillmv 14y ago
  I think the honesty in here implies you wouldn't act greedily.
- wisty 14y ago
  You're right. The "fake donation" scam is one example. As is the "long lost grandkid, who needs to pay his medical bills". But ... most scams do prey on greed - people assume that it's something illegal, but that it's not themselves getting ripped off by it.

seiji 14y ago

"I'm so much smarter than everyone else I've ever met, of COURSE I will get away with it" Sometimes this happens. See: Facebook y Google.

ryanmolden 14y ago

>I'm so much smarter than everyone else I've ever met People that seem to think this never seem to consider a simple explanation: Perhaps they just haven't met very smart people yet.

lmm 14y ago
Seems unlikely, unless very smart people spend their time in nonobvious places. (FWIW I went to quite possibly the best university in the world, and while my jobs since then have all been programming I've seen a wide variety of industries - and in one case, dealt with clients from many more. Apart from anything else, sheer sample size suggests I should've met at least a few of the very smart people by now. (That said I have met at least four people who were definitely smarter than me, and several more who might have been, which possibly doesn't put me in the category you're describing))
- simonster 14y ago
  How do you dissociate the contributions of knowledge, motivation, and experience from intelligence?
- ryanmolden 14y ago
  The world is a big place. Your admission that you have met people smarter than yourself may well put you in a different category. The people I talk of are the people that seem to honestly think they are the smartest people in the world/their industry. Unless they have occasion to interact with people on the level of Nobel laureates routinely, I suspect their sample may not include 'very smart people' (and I don't mean 'very smart', I mean VERY smart, i.e. I am not saying the people they have met have been dull, just that they may not be in the upper echelons of intelligence). Also, people's self-ranking of their own traits (especially something that is somewhat ill-defined, like intelligence) is notoriously less than objective. Just know that for some of the people you have met and consider yourself clearly smarter than, they may have the the opposite view and believe it just as assuredly as you.
- mturmon 14y ago
  You come off as young and naive. Examples: The idea of there being an isolatable thing called "smart," and moreover that you could assess it (in relation to your own, even), and that it would admit a total ordering even if you could. Also, the idea that there might be a "best university in the world" -- across students and areas of study. This is a thing that I have observed people with limited life experience do. Like myself, some years ago.

fluidcruft 14y ago

I agree. When we got to the sms records part I was getting ready for the corruption angle wondering whether they were fabricated. However, there was absolutely no indication that the he even questioned their authenticity... instead he goes on to make some incredulous story to explain them... Clearly he thinks he's much smarter than anyone else in the room.