8 ms·
Pwn2Own owned all major browsers
- dereksy 14y agoWhere's Safari?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- dhbanes 14y agoDirectly below "Mozilla Firefox on Windows 7 ($60,000)"
- lloeki 14y agoSafari is a target in the event, but has not been pwned yet: Wednesday: 1:30 - Java (James Forshaw) PWNED 2:30 - Java (Joshua Drake) PWNED 3:30 - IE 10 (VUPEN Security) PWNED 4:30 - Chrome (Nils & Jon) PWNED 5:30 - Firefox (VUPEN Security) PWNED 5:31 - Java (VUPEN Security) PWNED Thursday: 12pm - Flash (VUPEN Security) 1pm - Adobe Reader (George Hotz) 2pm - IE 10 (Pham Toan) Interestingly enough, last year it was the only target not 0-day pwned (but was in the CVE contest, via CVE-2011-0115 and CVE-2010-0050).
- dsl 14y agoPoor Vupen. Their Safari exploit must have broke.
- fuzzbang 14y agoOr they aren't about to kill the same bug in MobileSafari, since it is worth exponentially more. https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/309585202810867712 https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/309585202810867712
- othermaciej 14y agoWebKit code execution against Chrome is also likely to work (in modified form, but same basic exploit) against desktop or mobile Safari. Desktop Safari sandbox escape is likely to be completely different from MobileSafari sandbox escape. And in all three cases, the sandbox escape is the harder part. So that logic does not explain to me why people are going after Chrome but not Safari. I honestly don't know why it is. In particular, I don't have specific reason to believe Mac Safari's sandbox is more bulletproof than Windows Chrome's, but I guess Safari has the advantage of not being exposed to Windows kernel bugs.
- justinschuh 14y agoYeah, the WebKit exploit will work effectively unmodified on Safari. And the sandbox escape used against Chrome on Windows was a kernel bug in surface that can't be turned of from user-space (or really at all on Win7). Also, they softened the target quite a bit by using 32-bit Win7 for the contest, rather than 64-bit Win8 (or even 64-bit Win7). As for why no one's targeting Safari, I think it's simple market forces at play. The iOS exploit market is established and pays very well, while the core vulnerabilities, expertise, and techniques are all shared with Safari on Mac OSX. And since Safari isn't a soft target (in no small part due to Abhishek's mass slaughter of WebKit security bugs and our bounty program), $65k just doesn't compete with the real-world exploit market.
- othermaciej 14y agoGetting sandbox escapes from Mac Safari and iOS Safari requires completely different exploits. The code execution stage of a complete exploit could be shared, but it could also be shared with Chrome. So you'd think the same argument of iOS Safari exploit market value would apply either way. My theory is that not much research has been done yet on breaking the WebProcess sandbox. Which makes me sad.
- justinschuh 14y ago>Getting sandbox escapes from Mac Safari and iOS Safari requires completely different exploits. You're focusing too narrowly on the sandbox itself. You have to consider the whole stack, and all of the surface exposed from within the sandbox. Consider the Chrome sandbox escape from yesterday, which didn't use anything specific to Chrome. It targeted part of the Windows stack that's guaranteed to be exposed to every process on the system.
- fruchtose 14y agoIt looks like George Hotz [1] is attending! Judging by his work with the PlayStation 3, I expect him to do pretty well at cracking Adobe Reader. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz
- omgtehlion 14y agoInteresting how Java was pwned thee times in spite of the lowest reward.
- dsl 14y agoEveryone is sitting on a java 0day now. They have lost a lot of value in the market since there is literally as much supply as demand. I keep reading CVEs waiting for the one I have to be discovered by someone.
- ars 14y agoWhy sit on it? Why not disclose it and have it be your name on that CVE, and not someone else?
- ibotty 14y agoa cve is not worth that much. (nothing?)
- ars 14y agoMaybe not as cash. But on a resume?
- JonnieCache 14y agoI get the impression that dsl is a pretty successful person IRL already.
- derrida 14y agoAll the more reason to disclose the 0day. If not for money or recognition, just plain simply for the users.
- ghshephard 14y agoI have a friend who tells me that good (windows) zero days, with remote execution, are worth about $50K on the market that transacts these things, with a contract to increase that value if their is no open disclosure. I.E. If your zero day remains a zero day for another six months, there is an opportunity to see further reward. I've always wondered if it's intelligence agencies, criminal organizations, police organizations, or commercial endeavors that sell services to those three bodies that are paying that kind of money for zero days. I also don't understand why people give good zero days away for free, if is really the case that there is a market in these types of properties. Anybody have actual insight into this?
- andrewchoi 14y agoI don't really understand the competiton. Do people come to these with just the intention of finding exploits, or do they come with the exploit ready, waiting to collect a reward?
- werrett 14y agoInvariably all the researchers / organisations competing have developed their exploits well ahead of the event. The exploits are now pretty involved. I've linked to a blog post from the Chrome developers that details the exploit that won late 2011 [1]. 'Pinkie Pie', the pseudonym of the person who won it, is pretty infamous in those circles. [1] http://blog.chromium.org/2012/05/tale-of-two-pwnies-part-1.html http://blog.chromium.org/2012/05/tale-of-two-pwnies-part-1.h...
- raesene2 14y agoThey have the exploits ready to go, the challenge is whether they can exploit the target system (which is fully patched) within their time slot. It's a useful excercise, I think, in that it demonstrates that even the most hardened of codebases still has security bugs and it also serves as a cautionary tale for people who think they don't need multiple layers of defence..
- xyzzy123 14y agoMost teams have something which will work though, so the "winner" often depends on what order the contestants get drawn in.
- martinced 14y ago"...it demonstrates that even the most hardened of codebases still has security bugs" Browsers the most hardened codebase? I nearly spilled my coffee ; ) Every single browsers out there (including Chrome) was designed with security as an after-thought. As for me I browse the Web from Linux, using a throwaway user account which doesn't have Java installed. And that user account is itself "hardened" (e.g. no login shell, specific per user-id firewalling rules, etc.). At this point seen the state of insecurity the Web is in I'll probably go back to the VM route (a browser in a locked down separate user account, but itself running inside a KVM VM). My definition of an hardened codebase would be something like OpenBSD or OpenSSH or esL4 (in esL4 the code has been verified (using formal provers) to be free of buffer overrun/overflow and whatnots). What I don't like about your comment is that you consider the current situation to be "acceptable". You apparently do really believe current browsers are "hardened" and that there are people thinking like you is precisely part of the problem. We can do much better than that. For a start I'd love to read a rant from Theo de Raadt about what should be done to conceive more secure web browsers.
- othermaciej 14y ago"All"? Not Safari yet (knock on wood). Which is a big change from back in the day when it was usually pwned first in this contest. Or are you saying it's not a major browser?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- hayksaakian 14y agoAt 25% of mobile, I agree it is a worthwhile endeavor to find exploits for safari. I was about to make fun of you for suggesting safari has significant usage until I considered mobile.
- buster 14y agoMobile Safari was not in the list offered as targets if i read that right..
- othermaciej 14y agoSafari's desktop share is somewhere between 5.5% and 15.5% depending on whose stats you trust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#StatCounter_.28July_2008_to_present.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Sta... Is it crazy to consider that significant?
- lloeki 14y agoI personally consider it not major but significant, not just due to market share but also because it's the default browser (and shares its inner components with applications leveraging WebView) on a certain platform. Therefore it's a prime target for establishing a foothold on that platform.
- abalone 14y agoSafari actually has 60% of mobile web usage. Source: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/02/01/apple-android-market-share/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/02/01/apple-android-market-...
- pavs 14y agowoah! whats with the hp site permalink/URI/url formatting? http://h30499.www3.hp.com/ http://h30499.www3.hp.com/
- ars 14y agoWhat's wrong with that? Seems perfectly fine to me.
- pimentel 14y agoIf I didn't know my computer stuff, I would say it's a virus website. What's that h30499? www3? Why not communities.hp.com? (this actually redirects to h30507.www3.hp.com). h30500 asks for httpauth. It's just ugly, is it not?
- jonknee 14y ago> If I didn't know my computer stuff, I would say it's a virus website. If you didn't know your computer stuff you wouldn't have ever noticed the URL.
- pimentel 14y agoI could be a basic user that knows how to avoid clicking strange links to avoid email viruses. I could know enough to notice the URL, but not enough to know that the domain hp.com is what really counts.
- r00fus 14y agoIf you're trying to auth, and you get one subdomian vs. another - it's a pain in the ass for all users. That's why other big properties have unified to one domain and subroutes (e.g.: google.com - no more reader.google.com, but www.google.com/reader).
- SquareWheel 14y agoYou know, I've actually seen a pretty useful writeup on why HP urls are so crazy. I wish I knew where to find it, but there was some allegedly logical reason. I think it had to do with the site knowing which server to talk to? I wish I could remember more.
- TheAnimus 14y agoConsidering Chrome had a last minuite patch applied http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/03/06/last-minute-pre-pwnium-chrome-update-closes-numerous-holes/ http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/03/06/last-minute-pre-p... It's good to know it still got taken down, because I had a horrible fear they where going to try and advertise they were 100% safe because they weren't exploited.
- justinschuh 14y agoThere's no last minute patch. We push security and stability updates every 2-3 weeks. Just go look at our release history to verify. As for your other claim, it's so absurdly off base that it doesn't warrant an explicit response.
- TheAnimus 14y agoWhich is fair enough, I'm in no way going to suggest having a reactive security update schedule is a bad thing. However the time of the conference could easily give a vendor that had a compatable release cycle a slight edge. When I read that story (before hearing the results) I was filled with a kind of dread, I am less than impressed about the claims for Chrome OS, in the UK where its advertised it strikes me as Apple during the bad days who simply advocated bad pratice with regards to security (you've bought us, don't worry) type thing. If you feel that is at all unfair to you, I am sorry, but Google Chrome has been an agressively marketed product in London and I have general contempt for most of the adds (but then I'm not the target market). I also think its really important to remind people just how unsafe browsers are (all of them) and how people need to be increasingly aware of the impact such security. Side Note: If your one of the team, thanks, yours has been my favourite browser for years now :)
- kriro 14y agoAre any vendors offering no questions asked X$/0day rewards all year long instead of dedicated events? Seems like it would be a decent move. If the going rate is really in the 50k ballpark why can't say Google offer 10-20k per Chrome exploit? Their engineers don't make peanuts and the attacks on the software happen regardless. After a year or two you'd probably have a pretty secure system for a reasonable cost. I don't think there's much negative press involved either if you spin it a la "we have the best security experts in the world attack our software and fix it asap". +You might pull off a decent talent grab or two as long as you understand how the people would like to work (probably not from a google office)
- vellum 14y agoGoogle's bug bounty is $3,133.70 (elite). The black market can pay $80k-200k+[1]. Why doesn't Google pay more? Well, like you said, "attacks on the software happen regardless". Their objective is to maximize shareholder value. People adopt browsers for other reasons besides maximum security. You hear about critical vulnerabilities all the time, to the point where you get desensitized to it. I don't think there's been a bug out there that caused people to dump a browser en masse. [1] - http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/03/23/shopping-for-zero-days-an-price-list-for-hackers-secret-software-exploits/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/03/23/shoppin...
- ErikCorry 14y agoThe bug bounty is for a security bug with no exploit. That makes it a lot less work for the security researcher. See the release notes on the Google Chrome blog for details of bounties paid. Google also sponsors Pwn2Own and Pwnium with bigger prizes for bugs with working exploits.
- bzbarsky 14y ago> Are any vendors offering no questions asked X$/0day rewards > all year long Both Mozilla and Google do, but those rewards are in the $3k range.
- soda123 14y agoFew silly questions: 1) I got the feeling from this discussion and some other sources that there are a couple of known Windows kernel vulnerabilities that are making these exploitation easier. What about Microsoft? They don't care or are they fixing those bugs? 2) How secure is let's say Firefox + Ubuntu/Fedora, latest updates, default settings. I haven't seen that many exploits for Linux in general. Is it because no one cares about linux or because it is harder and thus more valuable than windows exploits so no one share linux ones?