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I have for years. Believe me, the idea that the app store is a positive feedback loop and you have to clear the inital hurdle to get anywhere is not news to me.

by phil 14y ago

I have for years. Believe me, the idea that the app store is a positive feedback loop and you have to clear the inital hurdle to get anywhere is not news to me. But the advice you're giving here is roughly equivalent to telling a young cyclist in their first pro race, "hey, listen buddy. If you want to succeed, you've got to dope. Everybody's doing it. There's no other way."

VonGuard 14y ago
Fair enough. And yet, if he wanted to ride in the Tour De France, I think we all know he'd lose unless he did a blood transfusion every single night.... Actually, wait. No I take that back, I do not agree. A starting cyclist will compete in local, small time races. There's only one App Store, and it's Pro's take all. These guys may be just beginning, but they're already swimming with sharks. And if that's not enough mixed metaphors, I'll edit again!
ruswick 14y ago
Except, that analogy is true: purportedly, doping is really pervasive in pro-cycling and is basically necessitated to be anywhere near competitive. The same is true of the app store. It's not optimal, but it's the status quo that tens of thousands of developers face: you can't win if you don't employ dubious means.
- lambda 14y ago
  By the way, pro cycling had pretty much managed to kick its doping habit. You've seen all of the scandals over the past few years because they got more serious about cracking down on it, and once a few of the top pros were caught, they pointed the finger at the others. I think that most people believe that the last few Tours have been clean.
  - erichocean 14y ago
    By the way, pro cycling had pretty much managed to kick its doping habit. Okay, that made me laugh. Thanks for adding some humor into this otherwise rather downer discussion!
  - honzzz 14y ago
    >> I think that most people believe that the last few Tours have been clean. I used to race (although not on very high level), I know the environment and I would bet my balls that last few Tours have NOT been clean.
    - triplesec 14y ago
      Hey I'm interested in this. How are they not clean now? Times are down by about 6% from Armstrong's heyday. I do want to understand your thinking as there may be something I' missing. I'm sure there are dopers, but AFAIK the leading teams are largely much much better now (look at Team SKY)
      - honzzz 14y ago
        Where did you get that 6% and was that reliable source? And even if that number is somehow "correct" (each Tour is different and it is not possible to just numerically compare them) it does not mean the cycling is now clean, it does not even mean it's cleaner... there are too many factors that can influence this. My opinion is this: cycling may be a bit cleaner in a sense that maybe doping is not as widespread as it used to be and maybe the effect of doping is more limited because they need to be more careful. But I don't believe cycling is clean now. There are new drugs that are undetectable and mentality has not changed. I believe this is more realistic: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-judge-says-doping-is-still-a-problem-in-cycling http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-judge-says-doping-is... And about SKY team - I have no proof and it's nothing more than just my guess but I don't believe they are clean either. Remember last TdF? They totally ruled, they controlled the whole race. My cycling intuition tells me this is not natural. They certainly compete against some (I would say many) riders who are not clean (some of them even got caught, like Frank Schleck) and they were not even competing on the same level - they were superior. I don't believe it is possible without doping. The fact that they claim otherwise on every occasion means nothing to me - I have seen this too many times. My guess - and I realize it's nothing more than guess - is that if in 2030 they use their new methods to test today's samples they will find out that there is some substance that is undetectable today. I would love to be proven wrong on this - I love cycling.

by phil 14y ago

VonGuard 14y ago

Fair enough. And yet, if he wanted to ride in the Tour De France, I think we all know he'd lose unless he did a blood transfusion every single night.... Actually, wait. No I take that back, I do not agree. A starting cyclist will compete in local, small time races. There's only one App Store, and it's Pro's take all. These guys may be just beginning, but they're already swimming with sharks. And if that's not enough mixed metaphors, I'll edit again!

ruswick 14y ago

Except, that analogy is true: purportedly, doping is really pervasive in pro-cycling and is basically necessitated to be anywhere near competitive. The same is true of the app store. It's not optimal, but it's the status quo that tens of thousands of developers face: you can't win if you don't employ dubious means.

lambda 14y ago
By the way, pro cycling had pretty much managed to kick its doping habit. You've seen all of the scandals over the past few years because they got more serious about cracking down on it, and once a few of the top pros were caught, they pointed the finger at the others. I think that most people believe that the last few Tours have been clean.
- erichocean 14y ago
  By the way, pro cycling had pretty much managed to kick its doping habit. Okay, that made me laugh. Thanks for adding some humor into this otherwise rather downer discussion!
- honzzz 14y ago
  >> I think that most people believe that the last few Tours have been clean. I used to race (although not on very high level), I know the environment and I would bet my balls that last few Tours have NOT been clean.
  - triplesec 14y ago
    Hey I'm interested in this. How are they not clean now? Times are down by about 6% from Armstrong's heyday. I do want to understand your thinking as there may be something I' missing. I'm sure there are dopers, but AFAIK the leading teams are largely much much better now (look at Team SKY)
    - honzzz 14y ago
      Where did you get that 6% and was that reliable source? And even if that number is somehow "correct" (each Tour is different and it is not possible to just numerically compare them) it does not mean the cycling is now clean, it does not even mean it's cleaner... there are too many factors that can influence this. My opinion is this: cycling may be a bit cleaner in a sense that maybe doping is not as widespread as it used to be and maybe the effect of doping is more limited because they need to be more careful. But I don't believe cycling is clean now. There are new drugs that are undetectable and mentality has not changed. I believe this is more realistic: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-judge-says-doping-is-still-a-problem-in-cycling http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-judge-says-doping-is... And about SKY team - I have no proof and it's nothing more than just my guess but I don't believe they are clean either. Remember last TdF? They totally ruled, they controlled the whole race. My cycling intuition tells me this is not natural. They certainly compete against some (I would say many) riders who are not clean (some of them even got caught, like Frank Schleck) and they were not even competing on the same level - they were superior. I don't believe it is possible without doping. The fact that they claim otherwise on every occasion means nothing to me - I have seen this too many times. My guess - and I realize it's nothing more than guess - is that if in 2030 they use their new methods to test today's samples they will find out that there is some substance that is undetectable today. I would love to be proven wrong on this - I love cycling.