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This is generally one of the first things that people who decide to keep hens learn, and is reprinted in nearly every homesteader/farmer magazine ever. (that s

This is generally one of the first things that people who decide to keep hens learn, and is reprinted in nearly every homesteader/farmer magazine ever. (that said, I'm surprised to find it on the front page of hacker news!) Where I live in NH lots of small farms and people keep a few hens, and most of the smaller places will mention this to customers. Eggs from these "home hens" definitely taste different, though I doubt it has to do with washing and much more to do with hen diet. (And now it's mid noon here, time to go home and make eggs. Far more important than any local food movement, for me, is living within walking distance to work!)

gadders 14y ago
I can totally vouch for having your own hens. I have three, and I'm planning on getting another three this weekend. - The amount of work is fairly minimal - about as much effort as a pet rabbit - and you get eggs - When you observe chickens up close, they're surprisingly attractive animals. And not as stupid as you would assume, either - The eggs really do taste better. I think this is because a) they eat better, and b) they are much, much fresher - You can feed most of your kitchen scraps to your chickens to recycle your waste. They're omnivores, so eat meat (although officially you're not supposed to feed them it).
- UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
  Keeping hens alive is a lot harder than most people would predict however. I mean it varies from area to area, but foxes killing hens is a stereotype for a reason. Cats will try too as will many other predators depending on area. You leave that door open one night and expect to return to a garden of feathers...
  - gadders 14y ago
    Well, yes. You can either buy a coop with an attached, enclosed run or a fox-proof electric fence. Our cat did try and stalk the hens for fun when we first got them, but never attacked them and he was a decent mouser.
    - foley 14y ago
      That is something I have never been able to understand, everyone I know who keeps chickens either has cats or their neighbours have cats. Why would the cats ignore the chickens?
      - jules 14y ago
        Because chickens are strong and have sharp beaks, and even if they manage to overpower a chicken it will hurt. As long as the cat has enough food it probably won't try. A large rooster would be able to win a fight with a cat.
        cowpewter 14y ago
        Also, cats usually won't go after anything that's willing to face the cat down, even smaller animals like rats. I have both cats and rats and the cats will watch the rats in fascination, and even sniff noses with the rats when I have the door to the cage open, but the rats show no fear to the cats, and will even rush the cage bars if they decide a cat is too much in "their territory" and the cats respect that. This has held true through 8 different rats so far, and like 6 or 7 different cats (mine and various roommates). In general, to a cat, "runs away" == "prey" and "comes right up to me" == "equal and/or potential threat"
      - adamauckland 14y ago
        Partly perception - chickens are taller than cats and with wings spread out they can look quite large. Partly aggression - chickens are/can be nasty and will attack other animals with sharp beaks. Combine this with the fact that they're flock animals, one cat isn't going up against multiple flying, aggressive, pointy ended foes.
  - GuiA 14y ago
    Is it hard only because of predators? I.e. if they're in a sturdily fenced enclosure, are you pretty much free from any risk? Or are other things like cold, diseases, etc. tricky to manage? I love eggs, and have often thought about having my own chicken... although with my current urban living situation, it would be quite hard :)
    - gadders 14y ago
      We've had reasonably deep snow, and they've been OK (as long as you have more than one so they can keep each other warm). In terms of diseases, there are some nasty ones like red mites that can suck their blood, but disinfecting the coop takes care of that (and I've never seen any evidence of it). The only thing my chickens have really suffered from is scaley leg, but you can get ointment for that. I also find they decide to pluck their own feathers out at odd times due to moulting or broodiness. //edit//Also, for urban chicken keepers: http://www.omlet.co.uk/ http://www.omlet.co.uk/
    - pixl97 14y ago
      A sturdy fence helps, but it also costs too. The biggest issue is this guy... http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/raccoon-chicken-predators-how-to-protect-your-chickens-from-coons http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/raccoon-chicken-predators-... Racoons are very sharp creatures and can open cages and pens that aren't designed well. If your wire mesh is too large and your chickens stay close to they edge they will lay wait and grab them thru the cage.
      - creamyhorror 14y ago
        A comment on that page led me to read about guard llamas, guard donkeys and mini horses. I hadn't realised llamas could be used as guard animals at all. http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/ansc442/semprojs/2002/predation/llamas_and_donkeys.htm http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/ansc442/semprojs/2002/predat... - Being that dogs and coyotes are among the greatest predators of sheep, a llama can be very effective in alerting and protecting a flock of sheep against such predators. A good guard llama is very cautious and curious of these predators and will usually charge them, and if the predator does not retreat, kick and stomp them. - One llama is capable of guarding up to 2,000 sheep in up to 300 acres, and can decrease the amount of predation in a flock up to 100%. - Also, llamas ... often will protect birthing sheep and will alert producers to sick or hurt sheep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama - Some llamas may herd the animals they are guarding into a tight group or lead them away from danger and to the spot where they may feel the safest. Quite impressive, what llamas can do.
  - jes5199 14y ago
    when I lived in Portland, the problem was raccoons. They're a lot like primates - they're smart enough to pry open doors, plus they've also got sharp claws. Even the most experienced chicken keepers eventually lose their flock to raccoons.
  - Tsagadai 14y ago
    Off the top of my head some of the culprits I have caught in the hen house: * Snakes (sometimes, having a snooze still full of young chickens), * Eagles, * water rats, * wild dogs, * foxes, * feral cats, * neighbour's dogs, * pigs, * kids, * and others I have probably forgotten. Needless to say, keeping chickens alive can be a tricky task. Each time it happened the coop was locked. Also, I grew up in country Australia.
    - belorn 14y ago
      Agree. There was a reason why the outside yard of the hen house had a chicken grill around it, including a chicken grill "roof" for the yard. Even then, foxes and eagles ate more hens than we. The hens really like to sneak out of their yard and hen house. Did not have any issues with snakes or water rats (Sweden), but we did have a issue with flooding. With water just a hand deep, one or two would sometimes drown (the rest would either sit on the sitting sticks, or roosting). On a more positive side, I never had any issues with cats (even feral ones from what I remember) or dogs. there are no wild dogs where I lived, but we did operative a store right next to the hen house, and customers dogs (and kids) were often running around.
      - belorn 14y ago
        Chicken grill -> chicken wire.
- bediger4000 14y ago
  > When you observe chickens up close, they're surprisingly attractive animals. Wow! I kept 20-25 laying hens in yearly batches when I was between the ages of 13 and 18. I found them to be singularly repulsive, all having the same rude, avaricious, gluttonous personality, and all behaving in the most horrible manner possible. I'm not against eating chicken mainly because of this experience. I also had several pairs of ducks during those years, providing an avian contrast. Ducks have different personalities, aren't nearly as vicious to each other or to their prey, and are generally good sports. Everything else you say about laying hens is true in my experience. The eggs are indeed much, much better than supermarket eggs.
  - 205guy 14y ago
    Actually, you're both right, you just had different experiences. With 2-6 hens, the flock is more centered around the human, allow themselves to be touched and hand fed, and exhibit recognizable personalities. With 10-20 hens, the flock is more "wild" and establish their own pecking order by being aggressive to each other (and grabbing all the food they can grab before the others). I had a flock of 12 and saw both kinds of behavior, though because we kept the roosters for a while, it tended towards the wild side. Of course, chicken breeds, coop environment, and owner personality are huge factors in chicken behavior as well. BTW, this is a great article in that it reveals a little about our industrial food chain. I suppose it's popular here on HN because it has a bit of the "How things work" vibe. There should be articles like this for every type of food sold in stores.
    - yareally 14y ago
      It seems very common with animals and humans alike that we tend to exhibit "mob mentality" when in larger groups. I picture the hens in a large group attacking each other over food to be similar to going out on "Black Friday" after the US Thanksgiving or a company with a broken employee culture. Not exactly the most attractive or positive examples of human nature.
      - gadders 14y ago
        I always picture battery cages as being like a Super Max Federal prison.
- up_and_up 14y ago
  > I can totally vouch for having your own hens. We had 5 in our backyard in urban Oakland. It was a true joy, esp letting them out of their cage into the chicken run at 6:30 AM EVERY DAY.
- wybo 14y ago
  I would be careful with feeding chicken to chickens. Might get you kicked out of a startup for animal cruelty; if it is led by a Zuckerberg ;) (at least according to The Social Network film) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf-NRQvu1HY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf-NRQvu1HY
  - gadders 14y ago
    Oh yes, never chicken to chicken. But we give them fish, ham, bacon etc.
- ekianjo 14y ago
  I have been growing up with hens next to home and I can confirm they are far from being stupid at all. On the contrary, they are sharp animals who recognize people (if a stranger walks in they would run way from them, but if a familiar face shows up they stay calm) and have distinct personalities. And when you catch them, they become extremely calm and can be touched just like a cat or a dog, and end up liking it in the end. All the above you said about better eggs and feeding them kitchen scraps is entirely true. Basically they "recycle" almost everything. They eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, bread and all. No waste. Plus, having hens is like having dinosaurs (direct descendants, apparently: https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_building_a_dinosaur_from_a_chicken.html https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_building_a_dinosaur_fr...).
  - gordaco 14y ago
    Your first paragraph reminded me of an Ignobel-awarded article, "Chickens prefer beautifl humans": http://cogprints.org/5272/1/ghirlanda_jansson_enquist2002.pdf http://cogprints.org/5272/1/ghirlanda_jansson_enquist2002.pd... BTW, I think all birds descend from dinosaurs. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird: "Paleontologists regard birds as the only clade of dinosaurs to have survived the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event 65.5 Ma (million years) ago."
RyanMcGreal 14y ago
My city council just had a huge argument about whether people living in the city should be allowed to keep a couple of hens. After a year of wrangling, council ended up voting down a proposal to do a small-scale trial in just two wards where a majority of people supported the initiative. It was as embarrassing as it was frustrating to see the quality of their debate over the health risks, which the city's public health department confirmed is no greater than the health risk of a pet cat or dog.

gadders 14y ago

I can totally vouch for having your own hens. I have three, and I'm planning on getting another three this weekend. - The amount of work is fairly minimal - about as much effort as a pet rabbit - and you get eggs - When you observe chickens up close, they're surprisingly attractive animals. And not as stupid as you would assume, either - The eggs really do taste better. I think this is because a) they eat better, and b) they are much, much fresher - You can feed most of your kitchen scraps to your chickens to recycle your waste. They're omnivores, so eat meat (although officially you're not supposed to feed them it).

UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
Keeping hens alive is a lot harder than most people would predict however. I mean it varies from area to area, but foxes killing hens is a stereotype for a reason. Cats will try too as will many other predators depending on area. You leave that door open one night and expect to return to a garden of feathers...
- gadders 14y ago
  Well, yes. You can either buy a coop with an attached, enclosed run or a fox-proof electric fence. Our cat did try and stalk the hens for fun when we first got them, but never attacked them and he was a decent mouser.
  - foley 14y ago
    That is something I have never been able to understand, everyone I know who keeps chickens either has cats or their neighbours have cats. Why would the cats ignore the chickens?
    - jules 14y ago
      Because chickens are strong and have sharp beaks, and even if they manage to overpower a chicken it will hurt. As long as the cat has enough food it probably won't try. A large rooster would be able to win a fight with a cat.
      - cowpewter 14y ago
        Also, cats usually won't go after anything that's willing to face the cat down, even smaller animals like rats. I have both cats and rats and the cats will watch the rats in fascination, and even sniff noses with the rats when I have the door to the cage open, but the rats show no fear to the cats, and will even rush the cage bars if they decide a cat is too much in "their territory" and the cats respect that. This has held true through 8 different rats so far, and like 6 or 7 different cats (mine and various roommates). In general, to a cat, "runs away" == "prey" and "comes right up to me" == "equal and/or potential threat"
    - adamauckland 14y ago
      Partly perception - chickens are taller than cats and with wings spread out they can look quite large. Partly aggression - chickens are/can be nasty and will attack other animals with sharp beaks. Combine this with the fact that they're flock animals, one cat isn't going up against multiple flying, aggressive, pointy ended foes.
- GuiA 14y ago
  Is it hard only because of predators? I.e. if they're in a sturdily fenced enclosure, are you pretty much free from any risk? Or are other things like cold, diseases, etc. tricky to manage? I love eggs, and have often thought about having my own chicken... although with my current urban living situation, it would be quite hard :)
  - gadders 14y ago
    We've had reasonably deep snow, and they've been OK (as long as you have more than one so they can keep each other warm). In terms of diseases, there are some nasty ones like red mites that can suck their blood, but disinfecting the coop takes care of that (and I've never seen any evidence of it). The only thing my chickens have really suffered from is scaley leg, but you can get ointment for that. I also find they decide to pluck their own feathers out at odd times due to moulting or broodiness. //edit//Also, for urban chicken keepers: http://www.omlet.co.uk/ http://www.omlet.co.uk/
  - pixl97 14y ago
    A sturdy fence helps, but it also costs too. The biggest issue is this guy... http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/raccoon-chicken-predators-how-to-protect-your-chickens-from-coons http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/raccoon-chicken-predators-... Racoons are very sharp creatures and can open cages and pens that aren't designed well. If your wire mesh is too large and your chickens stay close to they edge they will lay wait and grab them thru the cage.
    - creamyhorror 14y ago
      A comment on that page led me to read about guard llamas, guard donkeys and mini horses. I hadn't realised llamas could be used as guard animals at all. http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/ansc442/semprojs/2002/predation/llamas_and_donkeys.htm http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/ansc442/semprojs/2002/predat... - Being that dogs and coyotes are among the greatest predators of sheep, a llama can be very effective in alerting and protecting a flock of sheep against such predators. A good guard llama is very cautious and curious of these predators and will usually charge them, and if the predator does not retreat, kick and stomp them. - One llama is capable of guarding up to 2,000 sheep in up to 300 acres, and can decrease the amount of predation in a flock up to 100%. - Also, llamas ... often will protect birthing sheep and will alert producers to sick or hurt sheep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama - Some llamas may herd the animals they are guarding into a tight group or lead them away from danger and to the spot where they may feel the safest. Quite impressive, what llamas can do.
- jes5199 14y ago
  when I lived in Portland, the problem was raccoons. They're a lot like primates - they're smart enough to pry open doors, plus they've also got sharp claws. Even the most experienced chicken keepers eventually lose their flock to raccoons.
- Tsagadai 14y ago
  Off the top of my head some of the culprits I have caught in the hen house: * Snakes (sometimes, having a snooze still full of young chickens), * Eagles, * water rats, * wild dogs, * foxes, * feral cats, * neighbour's dogs, * pigs, * kids, * and others I have probably forgotten. Needless to say, keeping chickens alive can be a tricky task. Each time it happened the coop was locked. Also, I grew up in country Australia.
  - belorn 14y ago
    Agree. There was a reason why the outside yard of the hen house had a chicken grill around it, including a chicken grill "roof" for the yard. Even then, foxes and eagles ate more hens than we. The hens really like to sneak out of their yard and hen house. Did not have any issues with snakes or water rats (Sweden), but we did have a issue with flooding. With water just a hand deep, one or two would sometimes drown (the rest would either sit on the sitting sticks, or roosting). On a more positive side, I never had any issues with cats (even feral ones from what I remember) or dogs. there are no wild dogs where I lived, but we did operative a store right next to the hen house, and customers dogs (and kids) were often running around.
    - belorn 14y ago
      Chicken grill -> chicken wire.
bediger4000 14y ago
> When you observe chickens up close, they're surprisingly attractive animals. Wow! I kept 20-25 laying hens in yearly batches when I was between the ages of 13 and 18. I found them to be singularly repulsive, all having the same rude, avaricious, gluttonous personality, and all behaving in the most horrible manner possible. I'm not against eating chicken mainly because of this experience. I also had several pairs of ducks during those years, providing an avian contrast. Ducks have different personalities, aren't nearly as vicious to each other or to their prey, and are generally good sports. Everything else you say about laying hens is true in my experience. The eggs are indeed much, much better than supermarket eggs.
- 205guy 14y ago
  Actually, you're both right, you just had different experiences. With 2-6 hens, the flock is more centered around the human, allow themselves to be touched and hand fed, and exhibit recognizable personalities. With 10-20 hens, the flock is more "wild" and establish their own pecking order by being aggressive to each other (and grabbing all the food they can grab before the others). I had a flock of 12 and saw both kinds of behavior, though because we kept the roosters for a while, it tended towards the wild side. Of course, chicken breeds, coop environment, and owner personality are huge factors in chicken behavior as well. BTW, this is a great article in that it reveals a little about our industrial food chain. I suppose it's popular here on HN because it has a bit of the "How things work" vibe. There should be articles like this for every type of food sold in stores.
  - yareally 14y ago
    It seems very common with animals and humans alike that we tend to exhibit "mob mentality" when in larger groups. I picture the hens in a large group attacking each other over food to be similar to going out on "Black Friday" after the US Thanksgiving or a company with a broken employee culture. Not exactly the most attractive or positive examples of human nature.
    - gadders 14y ago
      I always picture battery cages as being like a Super Max Federal prison.
up_and_up 14y ago
> I can totally vouch for having your own hens. We had 5 in our backyard in urban Oakland. It was a true joy, esp letting them out of their cage into the chicken run at 6:30 AM EVERY DAY.
wybo 14y ago
I would be careful with feeding chicken to chickens. Might get you kicked out of a startup for animal cruelty; if it is led by a Zuckerberg ;) (at least according to The Social Network film) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf-NRQvu1HY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf-NRQvu1HY
- gadders 14y ago
  Oh yes, never chicken to chicken. But we give them fish, ham, bacon etc.
ekianjo 14y ago
I have been growing up with hens next to home and I can confirm they are far from being stupid at all. On the contrary, they are sharp animals who recognize people (if a stranger walks in they would run way from them, but if a familiar face shows up they stay calm) and have distinct personalities. And when you catch them, they become extremely calm and can be touched just like a cat or a dog, and end up liking it in the end. All the above you said about better eggs and feeding them kitchen scraps is entirely true. Basically they "recycle" almost everything. They eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, bread and all. No waste. Plus, having hens is like having dinosaurs (direct descendants, apparently: https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_building_a_dinosaur_from_a_chicken.html https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_building_a_dinosaur_fr...).
- gordaco 14y ago
  Your first paragraph reminded me of an Ignobel-awarded article, "Chickens prefer beautifl humans": http://cogprints.org/5272/1/ghirlanda_jansson_enquist2002.pdf http://cogprints.org/5272/1/ghirlanda_jansson_enquist2002.pd... BTW, I think all birds descend from dinosaurs. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird: "Paleontologists regard birds as the only clade of dinosaurs to have survived the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event 65.5 Ma (million years) ago."

RyanMcGreal 14y ago

My city council just had a huge argument about whether people living in the city should be allowed to keep a couple of hens. After a year of wrangling, council ended up voting down a proposal to do a small-scale trial in just two wards where a majority of people supported the initiative. It was as embarrassing as it was frustrating to see the quality of their debate over the health risks, which the city's public health department confirmed is no greater than the health risk of a pet cat or dog.