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>> Reality check: if your credit card details are visible to a third party - you're not anonymous. I totally agree. Luckily more and more VPN providers accept

>> Reality check: if your credit card details are visible to a third party - you're not anonymous. I totally agree. Luckily more and more VPN providers accept Bitcoin payment, so that problem is solved (if you don't connect your wallet to your ID, that is) [1]. I think the more challenging part is not sending personally identifiable information through your VPN or encrypt it properly. Much of the Web is architected to identify you based on the most mundane technical information, like your browser string, cookies, the way you type or those little data leeks that happen here and there. [1] http://www.bestvpnservice.com/blog/vpn-providers-with-bitcoins/ http://www.bestvpnservice.com/blog/vpn-providers-with-bitcoi... ps. No, I don't use a VPN. But I like to stay informed.

tjoff 14y ago
>> (if you don't connect your wallet to your ID, that is) Which is not easy. Either you have to mine your bitcoins or you have to trust a third party to exchange your bitcoins in order to disconnect the transaction history from you. But you do have to trust that third party. Those are the only solutions that I know of.
- skriticos2 14y ago
  Well, you could just by them on the street with paper money [1]. Or you could use one of the shuffling services around [2]. [1] https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ [2] https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=bitcoin+laundry https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=bitcoin+laundry
  - tjoff 14y ago
    Both requiring you to trust a third party.
    - chaostheory 14y ago
      Almost everything in modern society, especially most things related to technology, requires trusting a 3rd party at one point or another.
      - tjoff 14y ago
        Yes, but the general perception of bitcoin is that it is completely anonymous. Where it in practice probably is, if you don't take any precautions, the least anonymous currency in the world, where everyone can inspect the transaction history of coins and anyone with decent turn-over can map out a lot. Trivially (these databases will, of course, be sold and leaked). And since most services at some point require you to reveal yourself mapping out individuals from bitcoin transactions isn't exactly difficult. The sad part is that since the history is public, if you goof up and reveal your identity sometime in 2015 your actions of today might also get revealed. To any third party. Potentially way worse than any sort of currency ever used; but the only thing people talk about is how bitcoin is this anonymous currency...
  - PeterisP 14y ago
    Any government entity interested in setting up honeypot VPN services would also set up honeypot bitcoin laundering services - which would do everything efficiently, properly and cheaply (you can subsidize costs), while keeping logs that can be used when/if really needed.
    - chrismsnz 14y ago
      > which would do everything efficiently, properly and cheaply Doesn't really sound like government to me...
    - tedks 14y ago
      What government entity cares this much about bittorrent vpns?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
rdl 14y ago
Even if you use magic to pay for the VPN, there's still lots of linkability just based on time of use, source-IP, etc. Add to that all the traffic which goes over the VPN, and you're probably screwed. Tor is the right solution here, not a VPN.
- e12e 14y ago
  I wonder how large percentage of tor exit nodes (and nodes in general) are operated by intelligence agencies? I remember reading that the various agencies across Europe were active in setting up and running mixmaster remailers -- and the (stated) purpose of TOR is to be a viable covert communication channel for spies. Remember that a "node run by the CIA", can just mean that the ph.d. student that required some resources from the IT department has a handler. Said student might even think the thing isn't monitored -- although I suspect it would be easier to to involve the admin, then keep him/her in the dark.
  - robinh 14y ago
    I think the solution to this problem probably doesn't involve trying to track down these bad nodes. Rather, more people should host Tor nodes, so as to reduce the chance of someone connecting to a bad one. As big as intelligence agencies are, they cannot operate too many nodes easily - the more nodes they operate, the bigger the chance that someone notices suspicious activity going on. On the other hand, there are a lot more civilians who can host Tor nodes without it being suspicious, thus dealing with the threat of intelligence agencies. I'm curious about what the exact ratios would be, if there were a way to find this out (probably not).
    - johnsoft 14y ago
      How would you go about hosting a Tor node, without exposing yourself to problems like this? http://raided4tor.cryto.net/ http://raided4tor.cryto.net/ I've thought about running an exit node, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my own safety and freedom to do it. The only solution seems to be buying hosting anonymously (bitcoins?), and making sure you only log in to the server over Tor.

tjoff 14y ago

>> (if you don't connect your wallet to your ID, that is) Which is not easy. Either you have to mine your bitcoins or you have to trust a third party to exchange your bitcoins in order to disconnect the transaction history from you. But you do have to trust that third party. Those are the only solutions that I know of.

skriticos2 14y ago
Well, you could just by them on the street with paper money [1]. Or you could use one of the shuffling services around [2]. [1] https://localbitcoins.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/ [2] https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=bitcoin+laundry https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=bitcoin+laundry
- tjoff 14y ago
  Both requiring you to trust a third party.
  - chaostheory 14y ago
    Almost everything in modern society, especially most things related to technology, requires trusting a 3rd party at one point or another.
    - tjoff 14y ago
      Yes, but the general perception of bitcoin is that it is completely anonymous. Where it in practice probably is, if you don't take any precautions, the least anonymous currency in the world, where everyone can inspect the transaction history of coins and anyone with decent turn-over can map out a lot. Trivially (these databases will, of course, be sold and leaked). And since most services at some point require you to reveal yourself mapping out individuals from bitcoin transactions isn't exactly difficult. The sad part is that since the history is public, if you goof up and reveal your identity sometime in 2015 your actions of today might also get revealed. To any third party. Potentially way worse than any sort of currency ever used; but the only thing people talk about is how bitcoin is this anonymous currency...
- PeterisP 14y ago
  Any government entity interested in setting up honeypot VPN services would also set up honeypot bitcoin laundering services - which would do everything efficiently, properly and cheaply (you can subsidize costs), while keeping logs that can be used when/if really needed.
  - chrismsnz 14y ago
    > which would do everything efficiently, properly and cheaply Doesn't really sound like government to me...
  - tedks 14y ago
    What government entity cares this much about bittorrent vpns?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

rdl 14y ago

Even if you use magic to pay for the VPN, there's still lots of linkability just based on time of use, source-IP, etc. Add to that all the traffic which goes over the VPN, and you're probably screwed. Tor is the right solution here, not a VPN.

e12e 14y ago
I wonder how large percentage of tor exit nodes (and nodes in general) are operated by intelligence agencies? I remember reading that the various agencies across Europe were active in setting up and running mixmaster remailers -- and the (stated) purpose of TOR is to be a viable covert communication channel for spies. Remember that a "node run by the CIA", can just mean that the ph.d. student that required some resources from the IT department has a handler. Said student might even think the thing isn't monitored -- although I suspect it would be easier to to involve the admin, then keep him/her in the dark.
- robinh 14y ago
  I think the solution to this problem probably doesn't involve trying to track down these bad nodes. Rather, more people should host Tor nodes, so as to reduce the chance of someone connecting to a bad one. As big as intelligence agencies are, they cannot operate too many nodes easily - the more nodes they operate, the bigger the chance that someone notices suspicious activity going on. On the other hand, there are a lot more civilians who can host Tor nodes without it being suspicious, thus dealing with the threat of intelligence agencies. I'm curious about what the exact ratios would be, if there were a way to find this out (probably not).
  - johnsoft 14y ago
    How would you go about hosting a Tor node, without exposing yourself to problems like this? http://raided4tor.cryto.net/ http://raided4tor.cryto.net/ I've thought about running an exit node, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my own safety and freedom to do it. The only solution seems to be buying hosting anonymously (bitcoins?), and making sure you only log in to the server over Tor.