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In my experience, managers don't know how to do my job. So it's nearly impossible for them to give feedback other than "fine" or "it's working, so it's good eno

In my experience, managers don't know how to do my job. So it's nearly impossible for them to give feedback other than "fine" or "it's working, so it's good enough for me". The people that do know how to do my job don't become managers - because they prefer to be engineers. So while the idea of this seems good, I don't think it's really practical...or I've been working at the wrong places.

lisavaas 14y ago
That's an interesting angle I hadn't thought of—-thanks for bringing it up. I would imagine that in such cases a manager doesn't need to know the intricacies of how an engineer does the work. More like, the manager just has to define and gauge the results. Work with engineers to define rational deliverables, say? Quality of product? That's a whole science in and of itself, but I can't imagine how a boss would have the ability to give you feedback without going through that process, even if it's a rigorous task to determine how to measure the work. Setting goals/deliverables/timetables/QoS is a task for which, I'd think, your input would be instrumental.
ctdonath 14y ago
If that's the case, so be it. Sometimes no news is good news. Flip side is managers who strive to find something, anything, always, wrong with your work. They may or may not realize it. If you suspect you're working for one, try leaving a deliberate flaw for him to find, or inject self-depricating humor, every encounter; if this seems to satiate the need to criticize, time to go.
ohjeez 14y ago
Respectfully, I think you have been working at some of the wrong places. The manager may not know how to _do_ your job, but she probably can tell if (a) you got good results (b) you put a lot of energy into it (even if it didn't achieve the results you hoped for) (c) you contributed to the team in a visible way (e.g. "I really appreciated how much time you spent with the intern"). None of that means the manager could write code (or whatever) as well as you do. She has you on the team because you do that task well. But letting you know that the work you do is appreciated and valued and makes a difference... that doesn't require that the admiration be for your elegant indenting style or your brilliant use of recursive descent. A good manager who didn't necessarily understand the tech involved often can bring out the best in her people by getting _them_ to talk. I had one manager ask, after a project was done, "What would you do differently, if you had this to do again?" Asking that doesn't mean that he would have made decisions any better than I did, but it does mean that he was doing his best to help me self-assess and get better at my job.

lisavaas 14y ago

That's an interesting angle I hadn't thought of—-thanks for bringing it up. I would imagine that in such cases a manager doesn't need to know the intricacies of how an engineer does the work. More like, the manager just has to define and gauge the results. Work with engineers to define rational deliverables, say? Quality of product? That's a whole science in and of itself, but I can't imagine how a boss would have the ability to give you feedback without going through that process, even if it's a rigorous task to determine how to measure the work. Setting goals/deliverables/timetables/QoS is a task for which, I'd think, your input would be instrumental.

ctdonath 14y ago

If that's the case, so be it. Sometimes no news is good news. Flip side is managers who strive to find something, anything, always, wrong with your work. They may or may not realize it. If you suspect you're working for one, try leaving a deliberate flaw for him to find, or inject self-depricating humor, every encounter; if this seems to satiate the need to criticize, time to go.

ohjeez 14y ago

Respectfully, I think you have been working at some of the wrong places. The manager may not know how to _do_ your job, but she probably can tell if (a) you got good results (b) you put a lot of energy into it (even if it didn't achieve the results you hoped for) (c) you contributed to the team in a visible way (e.g. "I really appreciated how much time you spent with the intern"). None of that means the manager could write code (or whatever) as well as you do. She has you on the team because you do that task well. But letting you know that the work you do is appreciated and valued and makes a difference... that doesn't require that the admiration be for your elegant indenting style or your brilliant use of recursive descent. A good manager who didn't necessarily understand the tech involved often can bring out the best in her people by getting _them_ to talk. I had one manager ask, after a project was done, "What would you do differently, if you had this to do again?" Asking that doesn't mean that he would have made decisions any better than I did, but it does mean that he was doing his best to help me self-assess and get better at my job.