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Ask HN: If you could start a start-up anywhere in the world
With the one exception of the US, where would you pick and why? Are there any non-US cultures that really support entrepreneurship, embrace failure as a stepping stone to success, and don't also try to hammer down the nails that stick out?
- devonbarrett 14y agoI think London's start up scene is becoming something interesting at the moment.
- throwaway420 14y agoAs bad as the US is becoming in many respects, the one thing its still got over the world is that its the one place that respects and rewards entrepreneurship to even the smallest degree. The barriers to entry in the US are numerous and much more burdensome than they should be in a free society....and are still a flat out cakewalk compared to what the man with an idea faces in other countries.
- raquo 14y agoI'm betting on Canada now. Beats Russland hands down.
- huhtenberg 14y agoVancouver is a great place for sushi and it has a handful of good coffee spots. But that's pretty much it as far as its relevance to the startups is concerned. Beats Russland hands down, true, but that's an easy feat.
- michaelmior 14y agoVancouver sure, but you should check out the startup scene in Montreal. Lots of cool things going on.
- geoka9 14y agoVancouver? Not in the winter, unless you're crazy about skiing :)
- raquo 14y agoWell, it's not that bad... lol nope, couldn't keep a straight face. Yep, December is hell. Wet, dark hell. Otherwise pretty neat.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- schrodinger 14y agoLook into startup Chile. Sounded pretty interesting a few years back...
- nirvana 14y agoIt is. And one of the interesting things is, every 3-4 months they bring in another 30 startups.
- ucflibrary 14y agoWe need to start a new country and call it Ycombinator. Nowhere in the world supports entrepreneurship enough.
- cpursley 14y agoHacker News, Quora, etc are supportive of entrepreneurship - that is your support and mentorship network. Incorporate in a low-tax low-regulation business-friendly jurisdiction like Singapore, bank in stable country like Switzerland and live/work wherever you like. Consider the 5 flags-theory for web-based business: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler
- kintamanimatt 14y agoI really, really love this idea.
- cpursley 14y agoIt's not so much about the tax avoidance - it's really about flexibility and the realization that the world is much different that it was 20 years ago. Location is less important - don't let governments or culture hold you back.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoOh I know. Being a perpetual traveler appeals to me. Colin Wright's[1] an entrepreneur (not the one on here) that's reasonably well known for living in a new country every four months. [1] http://exilelifestyle.com/ http://exilelifestyle.com/
- cpursley 14y agoAh, thanks for the link. That's serious PT.
- hnwh 14y agoConsidering this now, Singapore or Hong Kong
- cpursley 14y agoWell, Hong Kong's future belongs to China. http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- uvdiv 14y agoThere're many threads about this on HN. Here's one around an Economist feature: http://www.economist.com/node/21559618 http://www.economist.com/node/21559618 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4589291 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4589291)
- geekdada 14y agoIndia,Africa,china,japan
- kintamanimatt 14y agoThese are unusual suggestions! What makes you suggest them, and specifically what part of Africa?
- ashaikh 14y agoIn Africa, I would consider Kenya: good internet speeds, Ghana: booming local economy, Nigeria: lots of entrepreneurial spirit, Angola: 4G network
- _djo_ 14y agoWhat about South Africa? Well-developed legal system 4G network and high speed internet Existing support structures, especially for funding And one of the most beautiful cities with plenty of sun & sand in Cape Town.
- rza 14y agoI've never been to SA, but from what I've read, the high crime rate is a bit deterring.
- _djo_ 14y agoNot really an issue if you live in the right areas, in my experience. Cape Town in particular is quite safe as long as you don't go into the townships (like Rio's favelas).
- ashaikh 14y agoCrime is an issue but shouldn't be a complete deterrent. The political environment is a bigger concern scares people off. The BEE/indiginization issues are very real and should be considered. With that said, I would live in Cape Town in a heartbeat, great food, culture, people etc.
- RodEsp 14y agoSingapore, Norway or Denmark.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoAll three are interesting suggestions, but what makes them stand out to you?
- RodEsp 14y agoSingapore has some of the world's strongest laws protecting investors, lenders and borrowers. Setting up a company there only takes 4 days. It has very low and easy to file taxes and pretty much everything they do they do it with a "high-tech" view point. Norway is just generally all around awesome. The only draw back is their high taxes but they're ridiculously easy to file as well. They also protect their investors, lenders and borrowers very well. Denmark's economy makes it so starting up a business costs pretty much nothing and registering it is almost as fast as Singapore. They also hire and fire laws similar to those in the US so that you can pretty much hire and fire people very easily with no hassle. Also, I just love the Nordic culture and way of life which is a big factor for me in picking Norway and Denmark.
- saching90 14y agoIndia: If you are up for a challenge, where there might not be straight forward solutions, but if you crack the plethora of problems present there, its a dream come true.
- geoka9 14y ago> Its a dream come true. What are the pros besides low cost of living? Can you elaborate?
- Achshar 14y agoProbably a developed country. Like UK. London sounds good, it not silicon valley but its not bad either. There is already some startup culture there. The operating cost would be a problem though. If i was short on money (ok every startup is, except maybe like color) I would do it where i am right now, in a small town in north of India. The city is not village, but it's not a metropolitan either. The operating cost will be a lot lower than say, London and I already know everyone here. The community, society and laws are all local and familiar. So I think only place compelling enough to leave the comfort of home turf is valley.
- seivan 14y agoSingapore.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoSingapore's come up a few times. What makes it an ideal start up location in your view?
- nirvana 14y agoFive years ago I quit working for other people and started working for myself. At the same time, we decided to start traveling, to get a better idea of other cultures for our products (which are internationalized) and to see if we found a place we liked to stay. First off, one thing you notice, once you get out of the USA, is how much of a bubble the USA is in. The perspective given by US news sources, for instance, is pretty narrow. Americans tend to think about the same things all the time and have those perceptions reinforced. Just getting out there will broaden your perspective, of the world, of the markets and of your customers. There are other cultures that support entrepreneurship, and really, the idea that the US is sort of a pinnacle of this is at the least outdated. The thing to remember, though, is that these other cultures are different and support it in different ways. Some better, some worse than the USA. During our travels, we've "based our startup" in Venice Italy, Berlin Germany, Amsterdam, The UK, Mexico, and most recently Chile. All of these are quite viable as a place to stay while working on your startup, though not all of them are good jurisdictions for your business to be domiciled. We travel on tourist visas, though in recent year's we've focused on getting year long visas. Like others said about the PT / Five Flags strategy, jurisdictional arbitrage is a good idea. One thing to be aware of is that the IRS is getting more and more draconian every year and US government laws are making it harder and harder for financial institutions to do business with americans. It's not that the countries won't welcome you, it's that the US punishes them for it. (At least as it comes to bank accounts.) This makes a foreign bank account a bit of a prized possession for Americans. Some notable places to consider: Amsterdam- There is a US-Dutch friendship treaty which means that Americans who found a company in the netherlands get residency so long as they keep a certain amount of assets in the company. Panama- Recently the president of panama signed an executive order giving anyone from "favored" nations (eg: ones panama has good relations with, including the US and UK) the ability to get residency simply by setting up a company in Panama and putting some money in the bank. This isn't just a residency visa, this is permanent panamanian residency. Chile- I'm sure you've heard of Startup Chile. Chile is a pro-business culture (though also a bit pro-paperwork and things take a bit more time than they should). The Chilean government will give you residency for living and working in Chile, you just have to earn money in the country and pay taxes on it (So you could go there as a freelancer and live.) After 2 years of doing this you can apply for permanent residency that allows you to live there indefinitely. Singapore- Has two programs, the Entrepreneur Pass and the Entre Pass for employees of companies (it could be your own company) and people setting up singaporean companies, giving you residency. All these situations give you a reasonably straightforward path to residency. All of them have more or less pro-business environments, though Amsterdam's taxes are kind of extreme. As for embracing failure, etc, this is really kind of incumbent on yourself. IF you embrace your failure, great. If you're looking to raise investor money, the bay area is the probably unparalleled for this. I'm speaking more towards someone who wants to bootstrap. If you're a bootstrapper, you could do it almost anywhere.
- hect0r 14y agoUAE. Free market economy, law and order, easy air travel to anywhere in world via Emirates/Etihad/Qantas, majority of world's people live within +/- four hours of timezone, access to both low cost resources but also some highly skilled resources, etc
- geoka9 14y agoWhen people bring up places like this, it makes me wonder if they've considered the implications of inadvertently breaking the laws that are based on traditions/religion. Like being caught with a porn magazine in your bag or even crossing a province border with a bottle of booze (even that can be illegal there).
- vanwilder77 14y agoI m surprised since no one has mentioned about Tel Aviv, Israel. Number of startups have arised recently, and also considering their entrepreneurship spirit. It does seem to be a great place for doing a startup.
- Duhck 14y agoSydney. Amazing quality of life, beautiful, great weather, and an amazing city. Close to most of Asia, strong economy. Definitely, Sydney.
- maxwin 14y agoMyanmar. This country just transitioned from a military government to a democratic one and is opening up the market. Right now, they only have 5 million cell phone penetration. The government plans to have 80% mobile penetration by 2015 which means more than 40 million people will be online. Lots of low hanging fruits here. I am actually from Myanmar (been in US for 7 years) and I am going back tomorrow to start a company.
- d0m 14y agoI can vouch for Montreal.. pretty sick entrepreneurship culture.
- meerita 14y agoI'm in the process to make one here in Spain. It is hard, yes it is. I like it because Barcelona is a great central point, full of foreigners who embrace english and all kind of european cultures as well latin america. What I am looking for? an american partner. It will be good for various reasons as I think startups should be done.
- cpursley 14y agoThat's great. Have you seen where people in northern Spain are finding abandoned villages and renovating them to be somewhat self-sufficient? That would make a pretty cool startup hub. P.S. I see you are a UX/UI designer - any social links (dribbble/behance/twitter, etc)? I'm sure there's Americans on here (like me) or here on the lookout of that skill set.
- meerita 14y ago@minid, http://www.minid.net http://www.minid.net. My portfolio is not on behance. There's no need to move northern spain, in Barcelona we have plenty places with cheap prices to setup an startup. I do preffer remote working and go relocation when the first round is setup :).
- wonjun 14y agoHow about Toronto, Canada? http://blog.hypejar.com/post/42478443633/tech-alley-torontos-vibrant-startup-scene-and-why http://blog.hypejar.com/post/42478443633/tech-alley-torontos...
- josscrowcroft 14y agoI run https://openexchangerates.org https://openexchangerates.org essentially "from the road", so this is hugely relevant and I'm bookmarking it to read over once everyone's had a chance to weigh in :) At the moment, I'm based between the UK and Jersey (Channel Islands – I'm resident for tax, which is nice), around Europe (recently Amsterdam, Berlin, Lisbon, back to NL in a few weeks) and planning a move onto South America later in the year. Previously it was Hong Kong, where the project began life. From these, I got the best vibes in Berlin, and would love to spend more time there soon. London, where most of my business took shape and which I'd consider my practical home, is fantastic for diversity of ideas, people and places. As of now I plan to spend 3 months per year here (maximum allowed unless I want to pay UK tax!) in the warmer months to really get into the city. Still looking for the place, though, the one where I settle in for a year or two.
- cpursley 14y agoopenexchangerates looks useful for something I'm planning - bookmarked. Curious, what's your technical stack? I'm researching ways to build a Restful api to be consumed by web apps and mobile apps. Quite nice to be a resident of Channel Islands! Seems that everyone likes Berlin. Maybe checkout New Zealand?
- josscrowcroft 14y agoThanks! I have heard NZ is a top place to work from – it's the countryside that appeals most to me, though it's a bit remote. How's the startup scene? OXR is built out with PHP and (for a bunch of processes) nodeJS. PHP gets a bad rap, but it's fastest for me to work with and hasn't presented any problems so far.
- cpursley 14y agoCool, thanks. Guess I need to break down and learn about server-side javascript... I'm always impressed by the quality of the NZ govt. websites: http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/who-to-talk-to/business-networks http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/who-to-talk... http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/living-in-nz http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/living-in-nz < I've packed my bags ; ) http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-New-Zealand-technology-startups-that-are-doing-well-internationally http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-New-Zealand-technology-st... - Many good links here. It's not the valley, but impressive for a country of 4 mil.
- rdouble 14y agoThe Netherlands is probably the easiest (only?) way for an entrepreneurial American to get a foothold into Europe. There's a Dutch-American friendship treaty which makes it easy to start a business there with a small amount of money.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoI'm actually British! The EU is my visa-free playground!
- rdouble 14y agoWell then. You could go to Australia. It depends on what you're trying to do, I guess.
- od2m 14y agoOrange County. There's a lot of talent out here that's trapped in horrible corporate jobs. Even a lot of the startups are horrible-corporate startups. I will do this someday.
- johnmw 14y agoFor bootstrapping, I chose India! I've been living in the beautiful Himalayas and paying $500 a month to do so. That's a $3000 investment for 6 months development time to test out your idea. The internet here isn't so crash hot, but that is not a problem when you just need to do the odd Git check in. A Hyperjuice battery is a essential investment, powercuts are all too common.