4 ms·

When will we be in a world when we don't have to deal with assembly language at all? When can we just get the job done without having to understand or know any

by zxcdw 14y ago

When will we be in a world when we don't have to deal with assembly language at all? When can we just get the job done without having to understand or know any of the things which go down there? Because that stuff pisses me off. Bits? Bytes? I just want that freaking login box and implement some functionality and never have to deal what's under. Is it really that hard? Sigh.

jasonjei 14y ago
The answer is probably never. There will be deeper levels of abstraction, and the OS, for the most part, will do a marvelous job hiding it, but without a strong understanding of assembly you'll never be able to work on things like memory management, efficiency algorithms, and so forth. For example, assembly forces you to think in terms of bits, so knowing word-aligned vs non word-aligned code can make drastic differences in speed. Also, knowing how 64-bit is different from 32-bit makes a world of difference. Assembly forces you to think in those contexts. For the most part, the average programmer today already does not need to know assembly. But if you want to work on other low-level aspects of code (or optimize your code for efficiency), knowledge of assembly is critical. You might not have to write very much assembly, but things like context-switching that happens on the CPU level (e.g kernel land vs user land) can only be done by sending the right instructions to the CPU.
scotth 14y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's an opinion, people.
iamrohitbanga 14y ago
When we actually get to use qubits may be?
tjoff 14y ago
You don't have to deal with what's down under. Your loss really. So I don't understand what's bothering you. On the other hand, those that do understand what's going on down under have to endure with the high-level crap of unimaginable proportions every day. If "programming" is so easy that you don't really have to know anything to do it the result is going to suck. Case in point: Android and iOS. The world would be a better place everyone were required to know assembly before doing an web app.
rdouble 14y ago
Can't tell if serious...
- zxcdw 14y ago
  No. :) I tried to parodize a bit but I guess it wasn't very succesful.
_delirium 14y ago
A large portion of professional software development doesn't ever touch asm, so the answer can be "today" if you want.
jacquesm 14y ago
When will we be in a world when we don't have to deal with molecules at all? When we can just get the job done without having to understand or know any of the things which go down there? Because that stuff pisses me off. Protons? Electrons? I just want that freaking light to come on and implement some functionality and never have to deal [with] what's under[neath]. Is it really that hard? Sigh. -- I don't particularly like that style of arguing a point but this is just asking for it. Knowing a higher level of abstraction without knowing a lower level of abstraction is just fine. But knowing a lower level of abstraction will give you a definite edge and if there is one thing that hackers are always looking for then it is a way to have an edge over the rest. A way to do something that is deemed impossible simply by knowing a bit more, a way to achieve some feat by exploiting knowledge that is maybe a bit harder to come by but not impossible. The ultimate level playing field, you get as many tools as you're willing to learn how to use, with only your attitude towards learning and your perseverance as the limiting factors.
- joezydeco 14y ago
  I was going to write a similar analogy, but not as abstract as that. I was thinking more like the automotive industry. Most people want to just be able to buy and drive it off the lot without having to understand how it works or what makes it tick inside. But there will always be a need for automotive engineers.
  - greenyoda 14y ago
    Also, knowing a bit about how your car works will make you less likely to get ripped off by a dishonest or incompetent mechanic.
    - tjoff 14y ago
      Also it will make you drive better and more efficient as well as care for it, resulting in a far less need of an mechanic in the first place.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
regularfry 14y ago
My day-to-day job is web dev. But yesterday, I dug up references I haven't read in years and wrote a bootloader. Why? Because it turns out that for some things, speed and simplicity really matter. Also, I haven't had this much fun doing development in ages.
- Lerc 14y ago
  So here's the tricky question... Why was it fun?
  - regularfry 14y ago
    Good question. I think it's something to do with the impression that if something doesn't work, I can have absolute confidence that it's something that I've done wrong. There's no question of "bugs in the framework"[0]. There's also the matter that this is one area where code golf is actually practical, and can make the difference between being able to do something and simply not. [0] Yes, I know there are hardware bugs. In the sort of thing I'm doing? Not hugely relevant.
windexh8er 14y ago
So ignorance is bliss? I guess there will always be a fundamental requirement to know the root of all operations. But, good luck in hoping otherwise.
TallGuyShort 14y ago
Someone will always have to understand every part of the stack. If that person's not you, then just move on. I don't give a crap about browser UI and I wish I lived in a world where we didn't have to deal with that. But in reality, I'm glad somebody cares about it, and if someone writes an article about that world - more power to them.
lttlrck 14y ago
we? If it's not your bag my friend, walk on.

by zxcdw 14y ago

jasonjei 14y ago

The answer is probably never. There will be deeper levels of abstraction, and the OS, for the most part, will do a marvelous job hiding it, but without a strong understanding of assembly you'll never be able to work on things like memory management, efficiency algorithms, and so forth. For example, assembly forces you to think in terms of bits, so knowing word-aligned vs non word-aligned code can make drastic differences in speed. Also, knowing how 64-bit is different from 32-bit makes a world of difference. Assembly forces you to think in those contexts. For the most part, the average programmer today already does not need to know assembly. But if you want to work on other low-level aspects of code (or optimize your code for efficiency), knowledge of assembly is critical. You might not have to write very much assembly, but things like context-switching that happens on the CPU level (e.g kernel land vs user land) can only be done by sending the right instructions to the CPU.

scotth 14y ago

Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's an opinion, people.

iamrohitbanga 14y ago

When we actually get to use qubits may be?

tjoff 14y ago

You don't have to deal with what's down under. Your loss really. So I don't understand what's bothering you. On the other hand, those that do understand what's going on down under have to endure with the high-level crap of unimaginable proportions every day. If "programming" is so easy that you don't really have to know anything to do it the result is going to suck. Case in point: Android and iOS. The world would be a better place everyone were required to know assembly before doing an web app.

rdouble 14y ago

Can't tell if serious...

zxcdw 14y ago
No. :) I tried to parodize a bit but I guess it wasn't very succesful.

_delirium 14y ago

A large portion of professional software development doesn't ever touch asm, so the answer can be "today" if you want.

jacquesm 14y ago

When will we be in a world when we don't have to deal with molecules at all? When we can just get the job done without having to understand or know any of the things which go down there? Because that stuff pisses me off. Protons? Electrons? I just want that freaking light to come on and implement some functionality and never have to deal [with] what's under[neath]. Is it really that hard? Sigh. -- I don't particularly like that style of arguing a point but this is just asking for it. Knowing a higher level of abstraction without knowing a lower level of abstraction is just fine. But knowing a lower level of abstraction will give you a definite edge and if there is one thing that hackers are always looking for then it is a way to have an edge over the rest. A way to do something that is deemed impossible simply by knowing a bit more, a way to achieve some feat by exploiting knowledge that is maybe a bit harder to come by but not impossible. The ultimate level playing field, you get as many tools as you're willing to learn how to use, with only your attitude towards learning and your perseverance as the limiting factors.

joezydeco 14y ago
I was going to write a similar analogy, but not as abstract as that. I was thinking more like the automotive industry. Most people want to just be able to buy and drive it off the lot without having to understand how it works or what makes it tick inside. But there will always be a need for automotive engineers.
- greenyoda 14y ago
  Also, knowing a bit about how your car works will make you less likely to get ripped off by a dishonest or incompetent mechanic.
  - tjoff 14y ago
    Also it will make you drive better and more efficient as well as care for it, resulting in a far less need of an mechanic in the first place.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

regularfry 14y ago

My day-to-day job is web dev. But yesterday, I dug up references I haven't read in years and wrote a bootloader. Why? Because it turns out that for some things, speed and simplicity really matter. Also, I haven't had this much fun doing development in ages.

Lerc 14y ago
So here's the tricky question... Why was it fun?
- regularfry 14y ago
  Good question. I think it's something to do with the impression that if something doesn't work, I can have absolute confidence that it's something that I've done wrong. There's no question of "bugs in the framework"[0]. There's also the matter that this is one area where code golf is actually practical, and can make the difference between being able to do something and simply not. [0] Yes, I know there are hardware bugs. In the sort of thing I'm doing? Not hugely relevant.

windexh8er 14y ago

So ignorance is bliss? I guess there will always be a fundamental requirement to know the root of all operations. But, good luck in hoping otherwise.

TallGuyShort 14y ago

Someone will always have to understand every part of the stack. If that person's not you, then just move on. I don't give a crap about browser UI and I wish I lived in a world where we didn't have to deal with that. But in reality, I'm glad somebody cares about it, and if someone writes an article about that world - more power to them.

lttlrck 14y ago

we? If it's not your bag my friend, walk on.