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Yes, it's unfortunate that the flight attendant lied in this situation. However, it would have been impossible for the pilot to verify this - even if the autho

Yes, it's unfortunate that the flight attendant lied in this situation. However, it would have been impossible for the pilot to verify this - even if the author showed him the camera. Since the author was willing to 'prove' it, it had to be a digital camera - which the author could have very easily used the built-in delete function to remove all photos but one (or be a sneaky terrorist and swap SD cards). In addition, the author made the statement "I am not a terrorist." There's no way for flight crew to know this to be true until the plane lands at its destination and you provably haven't blown it up, killed people on-board, or hijacked and redirected it to another location. There is absolutely zero value in making a declaration like that. ... In fact, I'd say there's negative value in making that statement. In a security conscious environment like an enclosed aircraft, it immediately escalates a situation from "photo-happy tourist or possible bad guy" to "higher probability bad guy or maybe making a political statement ... or just not very smart". It's also a (very small) step in the direction of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater as you've potentially now caused (possibly over-sensitive) people hearing this statement to begin to have concerns about you and their flight. You've turned what should have been an uneventful flight into a situation where tension can only increase before you've even left the ground. When you add all of this up, especially when a flight is trying to get out of the gate on time, the pilot is going to err on the side of caution and kick you off the plane. You'll either blow up in a rage of righteous fury (thus proving to all that you should never have been on that plane) or you'll leave quietly, a one-time mistake, and board another flight (hopefully with much less bother to the next crew considering how much time you just wasted). You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd.

batgaijin 14y ago
Yeah, saying "I'm not a terrorist" is kind of a line I'd expect to hear to in a tv show or something. Do you tell the cop "Don't worry, I'm not a kidnapper"?
- shuzchen 14y ago
  Obviously they didn't believe he was a terrorist or they would not have booked him on another flight.
- frinxor 14y ago
  When a flight attendant tells you to not take pictures, its obviously for security/terrorism concerns. I find it truly ridiculous if we can no longer make true statements in an attempt to alleviate such fear ("I am not a terrorist"). When a cop pulls you over because there was a kidnapping a year ago, you do not end up in jail for making the claim "Don't worry, I'm not a kidnapper"
  - pudquick 14y ago
    > When a cop pulls you over because there was a kidnapping a year ago, you do not end up in jail for making the claim "Don't worry, I'm not a kidnapper" No, but you'll get a more thorough check of your car (trunk and backseat), plus a more in-depth check of your car's plates and your ID - because you just made a seemingly unrelated statement about a horrible thing (kidnapping) when the cop pulled you over for something trivial (not obeying speed rules).
    - frinxor 14y ago
      not sure if i made my original point correctly. putting away the camera is entirely related to terrorism, which is why its perfectly reasonable to respond with "I am not a terrorist" (taking pictures of the plane for future blowing-up operations)
      - wereHamster 14y ago
        Next time a cop pulls me over I'll tell him: "I'm not a turtle". Or "I'm not lightbulb". Or this: "I'm not a tea leaf". And hope they are not looking for an escaped turtle, a lost lightbulb or a tea leaf that jumped out of a tea cup.
    - jimzvz 14y ago
      >...you'll get a more thorough check of your car (trunk and backseat), plus a more in-depth check of your car's plates and your ID - because you just made a seemingly unrelated statement about a horrible thing (kidnapping) when the cop pulled you over for something trivial (not obeying speed rules). Not in a normal society.
- easytiger 14y ago
  Well when you enter the USA under the visa waiver scheme you sign a document that asks you many stupid questions, one of which is are you a terrorist.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    I love that form. No, I've not committed genocide lately, nor am I entering with the intent of setting myself up as a drug lord... Maybe some light murder and mayhem, though, if I feel bored or the hotel isn't up to scratch. (for the curious who haven't travelled on the visa waiver program: http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article6add1.htm http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article6add1.htm )
    - Coincoin 14y ago
      A visa that says you don't need a visa. Nice!
rurounijones 14y ago
"You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd." Not even odd, slightly odd which is now apparently grounds for getting kicked off an airliner. The terrorists have won a great victory if acting slightly odd is enough to terrify an airline company into kicking a passenger off a plane.
- mootothemax 14y ago
  The terrorists have won a great victory if acting slightly odd is enough to terrify an airline company into kicking a passenger off a plane. This isn't about terrorism. It's about a flight attendant taking exception to a passenger, and owing to what he later said and how he behaved, believing that he could develop into a problem on a long-haul flight. Was it a good call? Probably not, given the author's flight history. It is, however, an understandable one, especially given how little it takes for one person to cause havoc on a flight, especially when it's long-haul.
  - jimzvz 14y ago
    If flight attendants got everybody that they didn't like kicked off flights, it would seem[1] that there would be barely anyone flying. If I pay for a service and it isn't delivered there better be a damn good reason. A lie about me doing something that I wasn't or me stating that I am not a terrorist are not good reasons. [1]http://longhaulflightattendants.tumblr.com/ http://longhaulflightattendants.tumblr.com/
    - mootothemax 14y ago
      If flight attendants got everybody that they didn't like kicked off flights, it would seem[1] that there would be barely anyone flying. Speak for yourself. But this is neither here nor there, as you well know. The issue is: have you announced your likelihood to become a problem later in the flight? If so, why should you remain? I think in this case it was a harsh call, but ultimately an understandable one. Heck, who's to say the same flight crew hadn't earlier had to deal with an undeniably genuine problem passenger, and hence were being over-cautious? We're all human.
beedogs 14y ago
> You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd. ...which is still a fucking terrible reason.
andrewfelix 14y ago
Absolutely agree. The guy acted arrogant and entitled and attempted to argue with the Captain. There was a very simple solution to this situation; Suck it up, swallow your pride and apologise, whether you were in the wrong or not. If he had been humble about it, he very likely would have been able to stay on the flight.
- tankenmate 14y ago
  I doubt the bit about being humble means they might let you stay on the plane. The decision process is a one way process, once you cross the line there is no going back; or in the words of De Niro "If there's doubt then there is no doubt".
  - andrewfelix 14y ago
    I can only speak from experience. In the past when I've been caught doing something illegal or improper, I've been let off by being respectful and apologetic. Courtesy, respect and humility goes a long way.
    - raverbashing 14y ago
      He was respectful when he stopped taking photos But apparently the FA decided to lie and blow this out of proportion
    - megablast 14y ago
      I guess you can try to compare stealing cookies at home to be told by the pilot to get off the plane. There is no way this was being reversed. Once it gets to that stage, it is too late.
      - andrewfelix 14y ago
        Could you be any more condescending? I was referring to things like illegal turns and disorderly behaviour.
- 14y ago
maurits 14y ago
>When you add all of this up, especially when a flight is trying to get out of the gate on time, the pilot is going to err on the side of caution and kick you off the plane. That makes no sense to me because they off load the baggage from the hold of passengers who are not actually on the plane. A security measure that actually makes sense.
- 69_years_and 14y ago
  Very good point.
mcantelon 14y ago
>You've turned what should have been an uneventful flight into a situation where tension can only increase before you've even left the ground. Basically, one has to be mindful not to use words that will cause people too stupid to parse the context in which they were used to be anxious.
- jakejake 14y ago
  I agree but perhaps stupid is not the right word. The airline staff, especially low level, are not trusted or trained to think or apply their own reason. They're trained to be on constant high-alert and report anything that smells even remotely fishy. It's not right that you have to hold your tongue in airport security or on a plane. But whether right or wrong in the moral sense, it's prudent to avoid alarming the staff if you intend to make your flight.
  - mcantelon 14y ago
    >The airline staff, especially low level, are not trusted or trained to think or apply their own reason. You're right... the fact that they are given arbitrary power without training or trust is more the problem than their judgement as individuals. Or perhaps, because they aren't trusted, their orders are to resort to extreme measures as a default response to certain specific behavioral indicators.
Al-Khwarizmi 14y ago
Wow, so people seriously thing that saying "I am not a terrorist" is reason enough to kick someone out of a plane? I honestly will never understand how a one-time attack carried out a decade ago could throw the American society off its rocker so much. In my country (Spain) apart from an Islamic terrorism attack we have had local terrorists (ETA) killing people almost every year from the 60's to 2011, and there just aren't such taboos and irrational fear in our society. NB: I'm not one of those Europeans who bash on Americans, I admire the American society in many aspects... but this one I just can't understand. Ánd I could expect to see this kind of thought among uneducated people, but in HN? Oh wow.
- taligent 14y ago
  This has nothing to do with 9/11. It has done with a passenger exhibiting odd behaviour leading to the flight attendant believing that he might cause a disturbance during the flight. People causing problems on planes are a nightmare for airline carriers as it can result in early landings, increased risk of life threatening incidents and subsequent scheduling problems. When it comes to planes better to be safe than sorry.
  - eplanit 14y ago
    It has everything to do with 9/11, and the subsequent 'promotion' of flight attendants to security guards. If you doubt that, then just try to imagine the same scenario happening in year 2000...it would not have happened. This is also related to human psychology, as shown in the now classic Stanford Prison Experiment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
mootothemax 14y ago
You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd. Exactly. It's a long-haul flight, you might have a grudge against the flight attendant, you've already behaved slightly oddly - thinking it appropriate to say "I hope you didn't think I was a terrorist" is odd - and there are so many ways the flight could become a nightmare for all concerned, all thanks to you remaining on the plane. Maybe the captain could have handled things better. At the same time, the author went off the plane calmly and without making a scene. The author's disappointment aside, it sounds like a success to me.
- jimzvz 14y ago
  >The author's disappointment aside, it sounds like a success to me. I can't imagine any criteria under which the handling of this situation could be considered a "success" and it scares me that individuals, not directly involved, could see it as such.
  - mootothemax 14y ago
    I can't imagine any criteria under which the handling of this situation could be considered a "success" Not even the bit I wrote in the previous sentence? To clarify: "the author went off the plane calmly and without making a scene".
    - vidarh 14y ago
      ... a long time, major customer left pissed off. Nope, not seeing how it can be considered a success. With a reasonable flight attendant there's no reason to consider that there might have been a risk of anything but a calm flight in the first place, so having him leave calmly is not success. I've never had anything but good experiences with United through a couple of hundred thousand miles of flights (London <=> SFO regularly for a few years - still got about 100k unused miles...). But if this had happened to me, I wouldn't be flying United the next time. My choice of United instead of British Airways or Virgin for that period was entirely down to Uniteds much better (for me) frequent flier program (LHR <=> SFO gave me upgrades to business around one leg out 3 or 4 or so on average, while BA and Virgin were impossibly stingy, though the quality of their business class was better), but that would not outweigh a risk of not getting on the plane. United is not exactly in an economic situation where they can afford pissing off their best customers.
intenex 14y ago
Except, as others have pointed out, it wasn't odd at all. It's actually an idiom and an absolutely common response in a photographic context. http://goo.gl/CnV1s http://goo.gl/CnV1s Moreover, it was probably just so incredulous to the blogger that there would be any chance at all that anyone would imagine he'd be a terrorist because he was taking pictures of the little monitor in the seat in front of him that it didn't even cross his mind that it could possibly be taken in that context. (slight tangent) Reminds me of this one time I mentioned nirvana in a school essay (not even the band, the actual word itself) and the teacher reported me to a counselor as a possible suicide threat in reference to Kurt Cobain. I didn't even know who Kurt Cobain was. This was in like 9th grade. WTF?
- argonaut 14y ago
  I can't say that I agree with you that it's an idiom (well, because I've certainly never heard of it). It's a flat out socially weird thing to declare that you're not a terrorist. Social customs are hard to pin down, but if a passenger sitting next to me told the flight attendant that he wasn't a terrorist after the attendant told him to stop taking pictures (or to put away his cellphone), I would think of him as very odd.
  - emn13 14y ago
    I disagree - it's not weird at all. It's awkward; but the awkwardness comes from the fact that you're being confronted anti-terrorist rules. By their application they're basically saying: "I'm only doing thing because you might be a terrorist". That's awkward, and it's entirely natural to want to deny the accusation. And sure that denial will also be awkward... but the problem is the assumption in the first place, not the denial. Everybody knows that the airport is a place of everlasting mistrust, no matter that it's not reasonable - and that you'll be treated unfairly because you're implicitly assumed to be a terrorist threat. Everybodies thinking it (or trying to avoid thinking it) whenever the security is being particularly annoying, yet nobody is allowed to mention this thoughtcrime.
gokhan 14y ago
They could easily verify him. He "accrued nearly 950,000 lifetime flight miles with United" and had been upgraded to business class. You normally don't kick customers out because they take pictures of the seats, this is BS, staff could invent lots of ways to ease this situation if they wanted to, but post 9/11 defacto standard for flight personnel is they can do this kind of silly things and get away with it in the name of security.
- mmorett 14y ago
  Yes. Or the FA could have handled it with a bit more tact. Like this United agent, for example: http://asiangotswog.tumblr.com/post/43637405031/lolsofunny-a-crowded-united-airlines-flight-was http://asiangotswog.tumblr.com/post/43637405031/lolsofunny-a...
JumpCrisscross 14y ago
Much dissonance in this discussion originates from equating the blogger's situation with the general traveller's. Making a scene increases his blog's visibility and has a decent chance of resulting in corrective action. For him, this may outweigh being late for Baku. As Francis Fukuyama notes, "unlike money, which can simply be divided, dignity is something inherently uncompromisable: either you recognize my dignity, or the dignity of that which I hold sacred, or you do not" [1]. Trading immaterial dignity for getting to one's destination on time makes sense for most travellers. That is, unless you are trying to make a statement. Fukuyama continues: "for democracy to work, however, citizens of democratic states must...develop a certain irrational thymotic pride in their political system and a way of life." If everyone optimised for their personal utility the aggregate situation would degrade. There is a fine line between a prima donna and an activist. It is largely a function of the popular support for one's statement and the probability of it resulting in corrective behaviour. [1] http://www.amazon.com/End-History-Last-Man-ebook/dp/B003DYGOQO/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1361444216&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/End-History-Last-Man-ebook/dp/B003DYGO...
belorn 14y ago
The only reason people are talking about terroist and airplanes is because the airport continue to remind people of it each and every minute on the speakers. If someone say "don't think of the red elephant", its not odd for people to say "what red elephant?". That's normal behavior. In same way, if you stop someone at the airport, the first thought people will think is "I am not a terrorist!". You right however that saying "I am not a terrorist" is a bad strategic thing in a discussion. It anchoring you to something bad in people mind. It would be better to say "I am not the president of the air line, but I am a VIP priority customer for united", thus anchoring "the president of the air line" and "VIP priority customer" to peoples mind.
- emn13 14y ago
  Exactly - it's not handy to do, but the root cause is clearly the airline/airport policy. It should change.
blablabla123 14y ago
>However, it would have been impossible for the pilot to verify this The OP could have added the guy behind him who also took photos into the conversation. But I agree, the pilot was right to take him off the plane without any further information.
larsmak 14y ago
"You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd." I agree - you can come a long way by just saying "My apologies, I dit not know that", give a short smile and look another way. Inside you might mean something different, and you can silently ponder on what a jerk the opposite person is.. but you need to let the opposite person feel that he/she is in control - especially it it's their job to stay in control.
jongraehl 14y ago
> err on the side of caution The risk avoided is ... that the FA feels annoyed while serving this guy who talked back? It sounds like the captain also made no attempt to evaluate whether the passenger was actually crazy (making eye contact would be a start). Seems like captain is earning points w/ the FA - "you don't like the guy? I'll throw him off".
specialist 14y ago
You were kicked off for acting odd. He oddly took a picture of his seat, as he'd oddly done numerous times before. He oddly got embarrassed by being singled out for oddly not knowing that an oddly common benign act is now regarded as odd. He oddly felt the need to clear the air. When punished for acting oddly human, he oddly pointed out that he oddly felt that he had been maligned. Yes, travel blogger was acting quite odd.
tripzilch 14y ago
They ought to make a law against people using the word "terrorist". Leave it up to the proper authorities to handle such a dangerous word.

batgaijin 14y ago

Yeah, saying "I'm not a terrorist" is kind of a line I'd expect to hear to in a tv show or something. Do you tell the cop "Don't worry, I'm not a kidnapper"?

shuzchen 14y ago
Obviously they didn't believe he was a terrorist or they would not have booked him on another flight.
frinxor 14y ago
When a flight attendant tells you to not take pictures, its obviously for security/terrorism concerns. I find it truly ridiculous if we can no longer make true statements in an attempt to alleviate such fear ("I am not a terrorist"). When a cop pulls you over because there was a kidnapping a year ago, you do not end up in jail for making the claim "Don't worry, I'm not a kidnapper"
- pudquick 14y ago
  > When a cop pulls you over because there was a kidnapping a year ago, you do not end up in jail for making the claim "Don't worry, I'm not a kidnapper" No, but you'll get a more thorough check of your car (trunk and backseat), plus a more in-depth check of your car's plates and your ID - because you just made a seemingly unrelated statement about a horrible thing (kidnapping) when the cop pulled you over for something trivial (not obeying speed rules).
  - frinxor 14y ago
    not sure if i made my original point correctly. putting away the camera is entirely related to terrorism, which is why its perfectly reasonable to respond with "I am not a terrorist" (taking pictures of the plane for future blowing-up operations)
    - wereHamster 14y ago
      Next time a cop pulls me over I'll tell him: "I'm not a turtle". Or "I'm not lightbulb". Or this: "I'm not a tea leaf". And hope they are not looking for an escaped turtle, a lost lightbulb or a tea leaf that jumped out of a tea cup.
  - jimzvz 14y ago
    >...you'll get a more thorough check of your car (trunk and backseat), plus a more in-depth check of your car's plates and your ID - because you just made a seemingly unrelated statement about a horrible thing (kidnapping) when the cop pulled you over for something trivial (not obeying speed rules). Not in a normal society.
easytiger 14y ago
Well when you enter the USA under the visa waiver scheme you sign a document that asks you many stupid questions, one of which is are you a terrorist.
- vidarh 14y ago
  I love that form. No, I've not committed genocide lately, nor am I entering with the intent of setting myself up as a drug lord... Maybe some light murder and mayhem, though, if I feel bored or the hotel isn't up to scratch. (for the curious who haven't travelled on the visa waiver program: http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article6add1.htm http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article6add1.htm )
  - Coincoin 14y ago
    A visa that says you don't need a visa. Nice!

rurounijones 14y ago

"You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd." Not even odd, slightly odd which is now apparently grounds for getting kicked off an airliner. The terrorists have won a great victory if acting slightly odd is enough to terrify an airline company into kicking a passenger off a plane.

mootothemax 14y ago
The terrorists have won a great victory if acting slightly odd is enough to terrify an airline company into kicking a passenger off a plane. This isn't about terrorism. It's about a flight attendant taking exception to a passenger, and owing to what he later said and how he behaved, believing that he could develop into a problem on a long-haul flight. Was it a good call? Probably not, given the author's flight history. It is, however, an understandable one, especially given how little it takes for one person to cause havoc on a flight, especially when it's long-haul.
- jimzvz 14y ago
  If flight attendants got everybody that they didn't like kicked off flights, it would seem[1] that there would be barely anyone flying. If I pay for a service and it isn't delivered there better be a damn good reason. A lie about me doing something that I wasn't or me stating that I am not a terrorist are not good reasons. [1]http://longhaulflightattendants.tumblr.com/ http://longhaulflightattendants.tumblr.com/
  - mootothemax 14y ago
    If flight attendants got everybody that they didn't like kicked off flights, it would seem[1] that there would be barely anyone flying. Speak for yourself. But this is neither here nor there, as you well know. The issue is: have you announced your likelihood to become a problem later in the flight? If so, why should you remain? I think in this case it was a harsh call, but ultimately an understandable one. Heck, who's to say the same flight crew hadn't earlier had to deal with an undeniably genuine problem passenger, and hence were being over-cautious? We're all human.

beedogs 14y ago

> You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd. ...which is still a fucking terrible reason.

andrewfelix 14y ago

Absolutely agree. The guy acted arrogant and entitled and attempted to argue with the Captain. There was a very simple solution to this situation; Suck it up, swallow your pride and apologise, whether you were in the wrong or not. If he had been humble about it, he very likely would have been able to stay on the flight.

tankenmate 14y ago
I doubt the bit about being humble means they might let you stay on the plane. The decision process is a one way process, once you cross the line there is no going back; or in the words of De Niro "If there's doubt then there is no doubt".
- andrewfelix 14y ago
  I can only speak from experience. In the past when I've been caught doing something illegal or improper, I've been let off by being respectful and apologetic. Courtesy, respect and humility goes a long way.
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    He was respectful when he stopped taking photos But apparently the FA decided to lie and blow this out of proportion
  - megablast 14y ago
    I guess you can try to compare stealing cookies at home to be told by the pilot to get off the plane. There is no way this was being reversed. Once it gets to that stage, it is too late.
    - andrewfelix 14y ago
      Could you be any more condescending? I was referring to things like illegal turns and disorderly behaviour.
14y ago

maurits 14y ago

>When you add all of this up, especially when a flight is trying to get out of the gate on time, the pilot is going to err on the side of caution and kick you off the plane. That makes no sense to me because they off load the baggage from the hold of passengers who are not actually on the plane. A security measure that actually makes sense.

69_years_and 14y ago
Very good point.

mcantelon 14y ago

>You've turned what should have been an uneventful flight into a situation where tension can only increase before you've even left the ground. Basically, one has to be mindful not to use words that will cause people too stupid to parse the context in which they were used to be anxious.

jakejake 14y ago
I agree but perhaps stupid is not the right word. The airline staff, especially low level, are not trusted or trained to think or apply their own reason. They're trained to be on constant high-alert and report anything that smells even remotely fishy. It's not right that you have to hold your tongue in airport security or on a plane. But whether right or wrong in the moral sense, it's prudent to avoid alarming the staff if you intend to make your flight.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  >The airline staff, especially low level, are not trusted or trained to think or apply their own reason. You're right... the fact that they are given arbitrary power without training or trust is more the problem than their judgement as individuals. Or perhaps, because they aren't trusted, their orders are to resort to extreme measures as a default response to certain specific behavioral indicators.

Al-Khwarizmi 14y ago

Wow, so people seriously thing that saying "I am not a terrorist" is reason enough to kick someone out of a plane? I honestly will never understand how a one-time attack carried out a decade ago could throw the American society off its rocker so much. In my country (Spain) apart from an Islamic terrorism attack we have had local terrorists (ETA) killing people almost every year from the 60's to 2011, and there just aren't such taboos and irrational fear in our society. NB: I'm not one of those Europeans who bash on Americans, I admire the American society in many aspects... but this one I just can't understand. Ánd I could expect to see this kind of thought among uneducated people, but in HN? Oh wow.

taligent 14y ago
This has nothing to do with 9/11. It has done with a passenger exhibiting odd behaviour leading to the flight attendant believing that he might cause a disturbance during the flight. People causing problems on planes are a nightmare for airline carriers as it can result in early landings, increased risk of life threatening incidents and subsequent scheduling problems. When it comes to planes better to be safe than sorry.
- eplanit 14y ago
  It has everything to do with 9/11, and the subsequent 'promotion' of flight attendants to security guards. If you doubt that, then just try to imagine the same scenario happening in year 2000...it would not have happened. This is also related to human psychology, as shown in the now classic Stanford Prison Experiment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

mootothemax 14y ago

You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd. Exactly. It's a long-haul flight, you might have a grudge against the flight attendant, you've already behaved slightly oddly - thinking it appropriate to say "I hope you didn't think I was a terrorist" is odd - and there are so many ways the flight could become a nightmare for all concerned, all thanks to you remaining on the plane. Maybe the captain could have handled things better. At the same time, the author went off the plane calmly and without making a scene. The author's disappointment aside, it sounds like a success to me.

jimzvz 14y ago
>The author's disappointment aside, it sounds like a success to me. I can't imagine any criteria under which the handling of this situation could be considered a "success" and it scares me that individuals, not directly involved, could see it as such.
- mootothemax 14y ago
  I can't imagine any criteria under which the handling of this situation could be considered a "success" Not even the bit I wrote in the previous sentence? To clarify: "the author went off the plane calmly and without making a scene".
  - vidarh 14y ago
    ... a long time, major customer left pissed off. Nope, not seeing how it can be considered a success. With a reasonable flight attendant there's no reason to consider that there might have been a risk of anything but a calm flight in the first place, so having him leave calmly is not success. I've never had anything but good experiences with United through a couple of hundred thousand miles of flights (London <=> SFO regularly for a few years - still got about 100k unused miles...). But if this had happened to me, I wouldn't be flying United the next time. My choice of United instead of British Airways or Virgin for that period was entirely down to Uniteds much better (for me) frequent flier program (LHR <=> SFO gave me upgrades to business around one leg out 3 or 4 or so on average, while BA and Virgin were impossibly stingy, though the quality of their business class was better), but that would not outweigh a risk of not getting on the plane. United is not exactly in an economic situation where they can afford pissing off their best customers.

intenex 14y ago

Except, as others have pointed out, it wasn't odd at all. It's actually an idiom and an absolutely common response in a photographic context. http://goo.gl/CnV1s http://goo.gl/CnV1s Moreover, it was probably just so incredulous to the blogger that there would be any chance at all that anyone would imagine he'd be a terrorist because he was taking pictures of the little monitor in the seat in front of him that it didn't even cross his mind that it could possibly be taken in that context. (slight tangent) Reminds me of this one time I mentioned nirvana in a school essay (not even the band, the actual word itself) and the teacher reported me to a counselor as a possible suicide threat in reference to Kurt Cobain. I didn't even know who Kurt Cobain was. This was in like 9th grade. WTF?

argonaut 14y ago
I can't say that I agree with you that it's an idiom (well, because I've certainly never heard of it). It's a flat out socially weird thing to declare that you're not a terrorist. Social customs are hard to pin down, but if a passenger sitting next to me told the flight attendant that he wasn't a terrorist after the attendant told him to stop taking pictures (or to put away his cellphone), I would think of him as very odd.
- emn13 14y ago
  I disagree - it's not weird at all. It's awkward; but the awkwardness comes from the fact that you're being confronted anti-terrorist rules. By their application they're basically saying: "I'm only doing thing because you might be a terrorist". That's awkward, and it's entirely natural to want to deny the accusation. And sure that denial will also be awkward... but the problem is the assumption in the first place, not the denial. Everybody knows that the airport is a place of everlasting mistrust, no matter that it's not reasonable - and that you'll be treated unfairly because you're implicitly assumed to be a terrorist threat. Everybodies thinking it (or trying to avoid thinking it) whenever the security is being particularly annoying, yet nobody is allowed to mention this thoughtcrime.

gokhan 14y ago

They could easily verify him. He "accrued nearly 950,000 lifetime flight miles with United" and had been upgraded to business class. You normally don't kick customers out because they take pictures of the seats, this is BS, staff could invent lots of ways to ease this situation if they wanted to, but post 9/11 defacto standard for flight personnel is they can do this kind of silly things and get away with it in the name of security.

mmorett 14y ago
Yes. Or the FA could have handled it with a bit more tact. Like this United agent, for example: http://asiangotswog.tumblr.com/post/43637405031/lolsofunny-a-crowded-united-airlines-flight-was http://asiangotswog.tumblr.com/post/43637405031/lolsofunny-a...

JumpCrisscross 14y ago

Much dissonance in this discussion originates from equating the blogger's situation with the general traveller's. Making a scene increases his blog's visibility and has a decent chance of resulting in corrective action. For him, this may outweigh being late for Baku. As Francis Fukuyama notes, "unlike money, which can simply be divided, dignity is something inherently uncompromisable: either you recognize my dignity, or the dignity of that which I hold sacred, or you do not" [1]. Trading immaterial dignity for getting to one's destination on time makes sense for most travellers. That is, unless you are trying to make a statement. Fukuyama continues: "for democracy to work, however, citizens of democratic states must...develop a certain irrational thymotic pride in their political system and a way of life." If everyone optimised for their personal utility the aggregate situation would degrade. There is a fine line between a prima donna and an activist. It is largely a function of the popular support for one's statement and the probability of it resulting in corrective behaviour. [1] http://www.amazon.com/End-History-Last-Man-ebook/dp/B003DYGOQO/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1361444216&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/End-History-Last-Man-ebook/dp/B003DYGO...

belorn 14y ago

The only reason people are talking about terroist and airplanes is because the airport continue to remind people of it each and every minute on the speakers. If someone say "don't think of the red elephant", its not odd for people to say "what red elephant?". That's normal behavior. In same way, if you stop someone at the airport, the first thought people will think is "I am not a terrorist!". You right however that saying "I am not a terrorist" is a bad strategic thing in a discussion. It anchoring you to something bad in people mind. It would be better to say "I am not the president of the air line, but I am a VIP priority customer for united", thus anchoring "the president of the air line" and "VIP priority customer" to peoples mind.

emn13 14y ago
Exactly - it's not handy to do, but the root cause is clearly the airline/airport policy. It should change.

blablabla123 14y ago

>However, it would have been impossible for the pilot to verify this The OP could have added the guy behind him who also took photos into the conversation. But I agree, the pilot was right to take him off the plane without any further information.

larsmak 14y ago

"You were not kicked off for taking pictures. You were kicked off for acting odd." I agree - you can come a long way by just saying "My apologies, I dit not know that", give a short smile and look another way. Inside you might mean something different, and you can silently ponder on what a jerk the opposite person is.. but you need to let the opposite person feel that he/she is in control - especially it it's their job to stay in control.

jongraehl 14y ago

> err on the side of caution The risk avoided is ... that the FA feels annoyed while serving this guy who talked back? It sounds like the captain also made no attempt to evaluate whether the passenger was actually crazy (making eye contact would be a start). Seems like captain is earning points w/ the FA - "you don't like the guy? I'll throw him off".

specialist 14y ago

You were kicked off for acting odd. He oddly took a picture of his seat, as he'd oddly done numerous times before. He oddly got embarrassed by being singled out for oddly not knowing that an oddly common benign act is now regarded as odd. He oddly felt the need to clear the air. When punished for acting oddly human, he oddly pointed out that he oddly felt that he had been maligned. Yes, travel blogger was acting quite odd.

tripzilch 14y ago

They ought to make a law against people using the word "terrorist". Leave it up to the proper authorities to handle such a dangerous word.