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Psilocybin shows success in medical trials
- sp332 14y agoHeidegger posited that our society's anxiety over death was artificial. Not the instinctive fear of death, but the constant worrying. This also leads to massive denial of the reality of death in popular culture (at least your own death; death is something that happens to "other people"). He proposed that people would be happier if they stopped denying their own mortality and also stopped being afraid of it. So maybe the LSD and psilocybin just cut through the socialized anxiety crap and give people a more natural or normal view of death, among other things.
- s_baby 14y agoSomeone wise said, "People can endure all the suffering in the world if they find the experience meaningful." Psychedelics often situate the experience of death in a deeply meaningful context.
- mtrimpe 14y agoWhenever I think of our society's relationship with death I remember a documentary I once saw about an aid worker who travelled with a nomadic tribe in Africa for a while. During her stay one of the tribe's elders decided she had had enough and told the tribe so. They started their ritual and held a feast for a day or two where everybody peacefully said goodbye to the old woman and on the morning of the third day the tribe moved on and left the old woman behind in the desert to die in peace. However the aid worker couldn't accept this. The woman was still alive! She could go on for at least a few more weeks, maybe even months! So she frantically ran back to the tribe pleading with them to let the old woman live. The tribesman were confused and tried to calm the aid worker down. It was all good! They had said goodbye and she had led an amazing life! When it became clear she couldn't convince the tribe of the error of their ways, the aid-worker went back to the old woman and stayed with her to comfort her until she passed away. The aid worker never realized that she was the one being comforted.
- euroclydon 14y agoHow was she being comforted? By gaining a new perspective on death? I'm not sure that, if I were the tribe woman, I would have wanted this aid worker around in my final weeks.
- mtrimpe 14y agoThe last 'she' was the aid worker, who was indeed being comforted by the tribe woman in her last moments. I've edited it for clarity.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- dhaivatpandya 14y agoThe tribe woman was perfectly fine and wasn't worried about death. The aid worker was the person who was anxious and worried.
- hosh 14y agoA last gift while in this body, awesome :-)
- wr1472 14y agoSounds interesting. What's the name of the documentary?
- mtrimpe 14y agoIt was an episode of a Dutch documentary series from over 5 years ago so I don't think I'd be able to find it.
- miles 14y ago"I don't think I'd be able to find it" Rather ironic comment, coming from the technical founder of VideoView ;-) Seriously though, many thanks for sharing that story - it illustrates just how far advanced some cultures are about death and dying. Western Civ seems incredibly immature in this regard by comparison. If you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any more details about this series or episode, by all means please share!
- mattm 14y agoOne friend of mine has made it his mission to improve the way we look at death in North America even and has even worked at a funeral home and in a morgue. He is currently writing a book. If anyone is interested his website is http://embraceyourdeath.com/ http://embraceyourdeath.com/
- aantix 14y agoI appreciate the link and have book marked a few of his blog posts. Another good read on finding perspective with death is "Staring at the Sun".
- hosh 14y agoYou can reach the same insight by doing enough vipassana meditation. I've talked with people who, having gained this insight through LSD, psilocybin, or other methods, gain an interest in meditation. Either way, it's not so much that it cuts through socialized anxiety. Another insight you gain from this kind of experience is realizing how much you participated in creating the socialized anxiety within you. The anxiety doesn't go away so much as you become less attached to it. Being less attached to it, you see how it no longer serves a purpose in your life, and you're free to pay attention to the stuff that is more important. Like experiencing what time you have left -- and make no mistake, whether you have a terminal cancer, or not (or whether we make it to technology that allows someone to transfer personality into silicon), you too will eventually die. One day, I hope that we'll have socially sanctioned initiations, not just for treating existential anxiety in people facing terminal illness. It would cut away a lot of teenage adolescent bullshit, and a lot of midlife bullshit. Having experienced that "cosmic force" invites people to really connect with each other, something far more meaningful than our current crop of "social networks." So this isn't just about having a meaningful experience of death. It's about having a meaningful experience of life.
- orasis 14y agoTo be concrete and explicit, my experience with death via vipassana is to notice gaps in experience where there is absolutely zero experience occurring. I've found this especially effective while falling asleep. If you get lucky, you'll be paying attention the exact moment that you fully lose consciousness. Doing this has made me fully comfortable with death, as there is simply nothing, no experience, no frame of reference, no self, nothing to judge, nothing to suffer. Highly recommended.
- hosh 14y agoYep, I've been there. Then there's also the point when you realize the "gaps" are not gaps, but rather, what things are. Kinda like focusing on negative space. Then, there's the realization that the experiences (thoughts, emotions, sensations) arise and pass, begin and end all on their own. And that nowhere in there is any sense of self. So there is no sleeping or anything. Just ... here. Now, I've been trying all of that off the cushion. Mindful standing. Mindful walking. Mindful martial arts. Mindful coding. Mindfully listening to other people. With varying levels of success :-)
- networked 14y agoOne book I would recommend on the subject of death and its place in society is The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. Although it uses a Freudian (or rather, Rankian) foundation you can appreciate its thinking and conclusions without buying into that whole framework. Its concept of individual "immortality projects" (which are exactly what they sound like) is especially helpful. Here's part of the notes I took while reading it: http://tdod.pen.io/ http://tdod.pen.io/ Please excuse any grammar and/or spelling mistakes since these were written very quickly on a cell phone keyboard. P.S.: To feint: please fix your site. Trying to publish material on Pen.io under an the custom URL "tdod-notes" I got someone else's page and couldn't even go back to edit what I had posted. Also, using a custom URL "tdod" didn't work at first, and I couldn't change the title to "Partial notes for Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death" afterwards. It seems like the safest way to use the site now is to create a short "asdf" post and then edit it to add the content.
- sliverstorm 14y agoWhat makes you believe anxiety over death is socialized crap, and that total acceptance is the natural/normal view? IMO anxiety over death is 100% rooted in our instinctive fear of death. Best I can tell, humans have been anxious about it ever since they had the cognitive ability to see it coming, and the time to stop and think about it.
- hosh 14y agoWhat makes you think "humans have been anxious about it ever since they had the cognitive ability to see it coming, and the time to stop and think about it"?
- sliverstorm 14y agoWell, the first thing that comes to mind is fairy tails as old as dirt and from the world over occasionally feature a figure in search of eternal youth. E.g., the fountain of youth.
- hosh 14y agoOh, that's an interesting argument. But that doesn't necessarily rule out socialized anxiety. The fairy tales were recorded and told in a time with writing, that is, civilization / society.
- JoshTriplett 14y agoDenying it certainly makes no sense, but we could do with more people having a healthy fear of it; perhaps then we might start doing more about it. People who think of death as "the next great adventure" (as phrased in the Harry Potter book series), or any number of other cached euphemisms, will have relatively little inclination to actually fix it, or even think about it.
- orangecat 14y agoYes. Life is good; death is bad. Sure, if you were born a few centuries ago, it would have been best to come to some sort of "acceptance" of death, because there was no hope of avoiding it. But today, we're on the edge of being able to prevent the destruction of billions of sentient beings, and that acceptance is counterproductive.
- hosh 14y agoUh. So ... you're saying that you deny entropy?
- JoshTriplett 14y agoNo, but once we deal with the ~120 year time limit, we have a lot more time to deal with long-term problems like stars going out and protons decaying.
- hosh 14y agoWell, I've mentioned elsewhere, reality is a lot bigger than you think it is.
- hosh 14y agoThere isn't any such thing as a "healthy" fear. It's more that fear arises and passes without obstruction. "Oh, I feel afraid. Noted. Oh, its gone now."
- spotman 14y ago20mg is an awful high dose. The usual dosage is between 75-1000 micrograms. 1000 still being awful high. (and 20 milligrams, is a _lot_ more than that!) Wonder if its a typo, of it they are just going balls out.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- s_baby 14y agoHe's talking about a dose of psilocybin not lsd.
- Cushman 14y agoThat dose is referring to psilocybin, I believe. 20,000µg would be a psychosis-inducing dose of LSD.
- spotman 14y agoAh, thanks. Mis-read that part of the article.
- s_baby 14y agoEvery psychedelic I've taken has had an upper-bound beyond which increasing dose didn't really do much. Granted I've never taken astronomical doses of LSD but a "heroic dose" of psilocybin will take you places a "heroic dose" of LSD can't.
- Cushman 14y agoI'm sure it's possible, but I haven't heard of anyone eating a sheet of acid who wasn't at least a little messed up afterwards.
- Spakman 14y agoIn case you missed this article about monster doses of LSD, you might be interested: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5210596 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5210596
- prawks 14y agoInteresting. I'm curious what measures they take to prevent a "bad trip"
- montecarl 14y agoI imagine that being able to carefully control the purity, dosage and the environment will go a long way. It is unfortunate that it is impossible to get illegal drugs of known purity, concentration, and quality.
- drewblaisdell 14y agoIt is absolutely possible to get illegal drugs of known purity, concentration, and quality.
- scarecrowbob 14y agoIndeed, but it requires knowledge, experience, and trust... each of which can be difficult to obtain in themselves.
- ceejayoz 14y agoMost of this stuff is easy enough to produce in a controlled, safe manner. There are suppliers for medical-grade cocaine, for example, as it's used in a small set of procedures.
- hcarvalhoalves 14y agoJust look after a guy called "Heisenberg".
- refurb 14y agoIf you can get approval to possess a Schedule I substance from the DEA, you can purchase drugs such as LSD and psilocybin from companies that manufacture them. They also come with certificates of analysis describing their purity. http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/General_Information/deareq_usa.Par.0001.File.tmp/deareq_usa.pdf http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/General_...
- ahoyhere 14y agoThe researchers deserve serious props for undertaking this research in this climate, and whoever approved their study proposals for doing so. The positive effects of halucinogens on depressed, dying, & addicted people have been "known" for quite some time but not rigorously tested. Hopefully this is as positive a sign as it seems. EDIT: Here's an example - a meta-analysis in the Journal of Psychopharmacology shows that LSD seems to have a hugely beneficial effect on alcoholism http://www.nature.com/news/lsd-helps-to-treat-alcoholism-1.10200 http://www.nature.com/news/lsd-helps-to-treat-alcoholism-1.1...
- dfc 14y agoI'm curious why you think these researchers deserve more props than any other researchers investigating helping people with terminal illness? And in what climate? now? 2009? 2010?
- GuiA 14y agoDespite numerous older studies showing that psychedelics have positive effects in a number of medical cases, there is a very big "anti-psychedelics" climate in the US right now, making it harder to go further with the existing research.
- dfc 14y agoI do not know what you mean by "making it harder to expound on the existing research." Maybe expound is not the right word? EDIT: I understand now. Thanks for being decent about it. I'd love to know what clown downvoted me for not understanding your choice of words.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- sneak 14y agopsilocybin != LSD The modern study written about in this article uses psilocybin, not LSD. They are entirely different substances, with different effects.
- raverbashing 14y agoInteresting how they're using synthetic psilocybin, maybe for control purposes, but I thought it would be easier to obtain it from the original sources
- gnosis 14y agoAlicia Danforth, research assistant to Dr. Charles Grob (who ran the psilocybin research study mentioned in this article) goes in to detail as to their reasons for using synthetic psilocybin in this recording of her talk at the Burning Man festival.[1] The talk is also well worth hearing for the other details she gives of this important research. [1] - http://www.matrixmasters.net/archive/Playalogues/131-Danforth2007Playalogue.mp3 http://www.matrixmasters.net/archive/Playalogues/131-Danfort...
- northband 14y agoI completely agree. I think a common misconception is all psychedelics are the same - but last different times. Definitely not the case. They may share common characteristics but definitely have a personality of their own ;-)
- ChuckMcM 14y agoI tell you what, I'm not driving anywhere near "Medical LSD Dispensaries" :-)
- mediacrisis 14y agoNo need, you can float :)
- hudibras 14y agoI think Salon's editor messed up the title of the article (and, by extension, the HN title). The article describes recent trials for psilocybin and MDMA, not LSD. There were certainly LSD trials in the '60s but if there have been some recent ones the article doesn't mention them.
- bjhoops1 14y agoI'm sure that "LSD" was added to the title for its name recognition. No one was going to click on an article about psilocybin. :)
- orasis 14y agoI'm also curious about the facts, at one point he sates that 30mg of LCD was measured out, which is a pretty insane amount of LSD from my understanding.
- amckenna 14y agoFrom a massive steel combination safe they removed a bottle containing one gram of synthesized psilocybin, the psychoactive agent animating the 200-member fungus family commonly known as “magic mushrooms.” The Johns Hopkins team has identified the golden mean — between 20 and 30 milligrams, roughly equal to a good fistful of strong ‘shrooms — to maximize peak experience while minimizing transitory anxiety. The article said 20 to 30 milligrams of psilocybin which is the hallucinogen in shrooms.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- northband 14y agoLove seeing the rise in interest in psychedelics posts here. I have always had a strong interest in 'entheogens'. Its hard to write about such a subject matter due to their powerful nature. All I can say is early on it was about fun and partying, but over time the lesson I learned was they are powerful tools not to be taken because you have them but instead when you need them. Lately my interest has been in ayahuasca. Seems from what I have read its more of a healing tool.
- steeve 14y agoMy only concern now is how do you find pure LSD/Psylocybin? As in, how do you know that you're buying what you think you're buying? Obviously in a controlled, medical environment the problem is void. NB: I am NOT advocating drug use/abuse of any kind. This is a legitimate question I've been asking myself for quite some time.
- zwegner 14y agoWell, luckily, psilocybin is easy enough to grow on your own in the form of mushrooms, though quite illegal. The information is out there if you look for it.
- scarecrowbob 14y agoIndeed-- this is fairly trivial to do, though as noted, illegal.
- gnosis 14y agoWell, one way is to learn organic chemistry and synthesize the substances yourself (or know people who do this). Another way is to pick or grow psychedelic mushrooms. Before picking wild psychedelic mushrooms, I strongly suggest you learn a lot about how to identify them (ideally not just from books, though good books are important, but from experienced mushroom hunters). Picking wild mushrooms can be very dangerous. As the saying goes, there are old mushroom hunters and there are bold mushroom hunters, but there are no old, bold mushroom hunters. Yet another way is to go to a country where these substances are legal, decriminalized, or tolerated. Until recently, the Netherlands effectively allowed the sale of psychedelic mushrooms. Erowid's Law Vault may help you find other countries with less idiotic drug laws than the US.[1] Finally, you can submit a sample of your substance to, or get testing kits from companies such as: [2][3] [1] - https://erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law.shtml https://erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law.shtml [2] - http://www.dancesafe.org/ http://www.dancesafe.org/ [3] - http://www.ecstasydata.org/about.php http://www.ecstasydata.org/about.php
- mnicole 14y ago
- largesse 14y agoInteresting, but we live in a country where the Mayor of New York (Bloomberg) is attempting to actively restrict the use of narcotics for people in pain in order to keep them out of the hands of abusers. We live in a pathetically immature culture.
- Mvandenbergh 14y ago>Huxley himself would famously request and receive a large intravenous dose of LSD on his own deathbed the following year. No, it was intramuscular. His last written request (he was no longer able to speak) was " "LSD, 100 µg, IM".
- gnosis 14y agoThe story of Aldous Huxley's death and his wife's decision to administer LSD to him is very touching and well worth reading.[1] [1] - https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/huxley_laura/huxley_laura_article1.shtml https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/huxley_laura/huxle...
- JulianMorrison 14y agoI'm a little surprised that science is so surprised that this changes people. Basically, what it does is teach, rather than chemically alter. The chemical goes away; the lesson does not. What I'd do a study on, if I was studying this, is combining it with "spaced repetition" - that is, treat the pill like a flash card, to maximize retention of lessons.
- derwiki 14y agoIn case it wasn't obvious to anyone else, this post is from fall 2011.
- brd 14y agoFor anyone interested in this sort of stuff, The Spirit Molecule was a great read. http://www.amazon.com/DMT-Molecule-Revolutionary-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/0892819278 http://www.amazon.com/DMT-Molecule-Revolutionary-Near-Death-...
- pinchyfingers 14y agoFear, depression, anxiety, misplaced energy, clouded perception, debilitating ego... Yes, psychedelics can alleviate these problems. I could've told you that when I was 14, and I'm sure that many intelligent, creative, productive people will agree. Anecdotal evidence, I know. Although I haven't touched anything stronger than caffeine for well over 7 years, I AM advocating the use of tryptamines and phenethylamines
- acd 14y agoPeople should be free to take whatever soft drugs they like. We will not win the war against drugs with prohibition, just look at when alcohol was forbidden in United states during the 30ies that led to the rise of Al Capone and similar mafia organizations. The solution is simple make it unprofitable for criminal originations to manufacture drugs by making them legal. The current drug laws are also hypocrazy as long range bomber fighters are allowed to take light doses of Amphetamine to stay awake during long missions. So the state are allowed todo what its citizens are not allowed todo.
- gburt 14y agoWhy did the title get changed to "psilocybin" when the article is clearly about both psilocybin and MDMA and even mentions the original LSD title?
- friendly_chap 14y agoWow, it only took us (the west) 60 years. That's what I call a progress! Not so fast please, a couple of billion people could live miserable lives before we stop the bullshitting around psychedelics and spirituality.
- JumpCrisscross 14y agoDavid Nutt, former head of Britain's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, amusingly points out that "Francis Crick, who discovered the double helix structure of DNA with James Watson, and Kary Mullis, who invented the polymerase chain reaction (PCR), had both taken [LSD, another psychedelic], and attributed some of their understanding and insights to it". He also notes that "l'Avenue des Champs Elysees in Paris is named after the Elysian Fields in ancient Greece, where people went annually to eat psychedelic mushrooms" Nutt was removed from his role for suggesting British drug classification needed to correlate more with drug harm. The absurdity is illustrated by the British people having the "ridiculous situation that if you find magic mushrooms in the wild you can sit in the field and munch them to your heart’s content, but if you take them home you could go to prison for up to seven years, and if you give them to a friend you’ll be supplying a Class A drug and you could spend 14 years in jail." [1] http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-Without-Hot-Air-ebook/dp/B009KCLHXI/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1360827484&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-Without-Hot-Air-ebook/dp/B009KCL... Drugs Without the Hot Air: Minimising the Harms of Legal and Illegal Drugs (2012)
- elliptic 14y agoQuick note - Nutt is incorrect. The Elysian Fields were a Greek domain of the dead. He probably means the city of Eleusis, which was the location of the famous mysteries, during which some (1) speculate that the participants did in fact use psychoactive substances, although I believe ergot is the most frequently suggested culprit. 1 - it's by no means universally accepted. E.g, I don't believe Walter Burkert thinks much of the idea.
- rglover 14y agoThis glowing report — based on a single dose of a naturally occurring, non-addictive, low-toxicity substance — sounds impossible. Surely one pill can’t succeed where months of traditional psychotherapy and antidepressants usually fail. According to science, that’s not how drugs work. It’s foreign to the model. Really? Have people consumed so much lack of common sense kool-aid that they believe humans know better than the Earth? From a purely birkenstockian point of view, it should be obvious that these naturally occurring things are there to help us. Why else would endless species of plants/fungi/etc. happen to be hanging out at our feet? The mistake we've made is that we're too skeptical. Instead of believing in what's right in front of us, we choose synthesized drugs and the ideals of people no more keyed into existence than you or I. Be aware of what's around you and learn about why most of what they say is harmful or "illegal" isn't and shouldn't be. Start with marijuana.
- 7rurl 14y agoThe Earth is not an intelligent agent. The Earth doesn't "know" anything. Also, plenty of plants have evolved to be poisonous to prevent animals (including humans) from eating them, so you can't just blindly go around eating any mushroom or berry you find in nature. Natural does not always mean "good for you".
- rglover 14y agoyou can't just blindly go around eating any mushroom or berry you find in nature. Natural does not always mean "good for you Of course it doesn't. That's not what I was suggesting. Rather, when people are told that something is illegal or cannot help them, for them to conduct research into it independently. Even better, seek out studies like the one mentioned in this article and participate in them. Concerning the Earth as an intelligent agent, can we be so sure? It's been around for an awfully long time to not know a thing or two.