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A LadyCoders Attendee: Learning To Code Isn't Enough To Get The Job

25 points by tarahmarie 14y ago

tarahmarie 14y ago
This is a great story by one of our attendees talking about how learning to code wasn't enough to help her actually get jobs. She still had to learn to speak confidently about her skills.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  It's not just that. You also have to "decode" whatever signaling people are unconsciously looking for. Or, to put it another way, the prospective employers are going to be prejudiced in some way shape or form. (And they'll be in denial about it.) This doesn't make the employers bad. This just makes them human. I just really wish more humans realized all of the above.
  - anchises479 14y ago
    These are unconscious social biases. Men are not evil for not hiring women when they don't understand the style of communication being used. When women are hesitant explaining the gaps in their resumes from childcare, or don't have any confidence answering questions, it's hard to blame men for going with someone they see as confident.
kirarev 14y ago
I wish this article mentioned more information about LadyCoders. I feel like it lead up to the point "go to a LadyCoders seminar" without explaining much about what LadyCoders is. Guess I'll just have to do my own research.
- anchises479 14y ago
  I'm happy to answer your questions here in the comments. I am one of the LadyCoders; my name is Tarah Wheeler Van Vlack. LadyCoders is an initiative that puts on seminars and provides mentorship for programmers (often women) who find that they're having problems getting jobs in tech. Women often suffer from Impostor Syndrome. That frequently manifests itself as the inability to be confident about their skills in front of technical interviewers.
  - kirarev 14y ago
    Do you guys ever consider getting involved with University Computer Science programs? I went to this extremely depressing "females in computer science" sort of mentoring meeting today and all of the women holding it essentially conveyed the idea "don't go into industry (got to grad school), they will eat you alive since you're a woman." it was horrid to hear this from other women. I'm glad to see that not everyone agrees with that.
doktrin 14y ago
"Learning to code" feels like a very amorphous and vague notion. Does it mean knowing iterators and for-loops? Integrating 2 web APIs? Building a compiler? Speaking for myself : I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer. The problem isn't my lack of presentation, it's a lack of knowledge. This may be the case for others as well.
- bawllz 14y ago
  Pretty close to my sentiment with the uprise in "<blah blah blah> learn to code". 'Code' is just logic. Its not hard to learn. What is hard to learn is how to translate ideas into a programming language, or better yet, into a <i>system</i>. C0d1ng 15 3Z, designing and developing a system to efficiently and effectively perform a task is hard.
  - tanglisha 14y ago
    The author went to one of the coding bootcamps, so that's the context for this article. I haven't been to one, but I doubt they have time to get into computer science so much as coding.
- lacker 14y ago
  I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer. I disagree. In today's job market, if you can code, you can get hired as a computer programmer. Are https://github.com/arn-e https://github.com/arn-e and http://a-rne.tumblr.com/ http://a-rne.tumblr.com/ your work? (From your profile.) If so, you should definitely be able to get hired as a programmer. If you don't believe me, contact me at my HN username at gmail, and I can help you out.
  - anchises479 14y ago
    Then why do so many women say they keep getting tracked out of software development jobs?
jordo37 14y ago
Great to see LadyCoders getting more attention here on HN. From my time working with awesome women in startups and in a big tech shop it seemed like this was always a challenge given social norms. That's why I backed LadyCoders on kickstarter and I can't wait to see how they keep growing.
- anchises479 14y ago
  Thanks for supporting women in tech.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    Is anybody against women in tech? Serious question, I'm all for anyone who wants to learn how to program, regardless of gender or age, and I can't imagine anyone not supporting it. Also: Hey Tarah! Just saw this was you. Great job with LadyCoders, I hope it gets even better.
    - tanglisha 14y ago
      I think the majority of people are not against women in tech. Most of the issues are fairly unconscious bias. Some people just assume women aren't as good at tech jobs as men are. Some people assume pretty women are stupid. Some people are simply uncomfortable around women, so don't put themselves into a position where they will be around them. Issues with actually getting women into tech jobs range from their manner of speech (for example, raising their voices at the end of sentences) to being overly modest about their job skills.
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        Hmm, that's interesting, I would never have guessed that the manner of speech is something that might need improvement. I guess the points you mentioned apply to any job (and probably gender), though.
        tanglisha 14y ago
anchises479 14y ago
The reason I posted this was to show that the people who want and need to come to our seminars are people who already know how to code, but don't know how to get jobs in tech. You can learn about our seminars here: http://ladycoders.com/about-us/about-our-seminars/ http://ladycoders.com/about-us/about-our-seminars/ You can register for seminars here: http://ladycoders.com/event-registration/ http://ladycoders.com/event-registration/ You can also see some of the nice and nasty things people have said about us here: Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-helping-women_b_2599848.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-helping-... CBS Radio: http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-Ladies-Succeed-in-the-Tech-World http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-Ladies-S... Or here: http://ladycoders.com/as-seen-on/ http://ladycoders.com/as-seen-on/

25 points by tarahmarie 14y ago

This is a great story by one of our attendees talking about how learning to code wasn't enough to help her actually get jobs. She still had to learn to speak confidently about her skills.

stcredzero 14y ago
It's not just that. You also have to "decode" whatever signaling people are unconsciously looking for. Or, to put it another way, the prospective employers are going to be prejudiced in some way shape or form. (And they'll be in denial about it.) This doesn't make the employers bad. This just makes them human. I just really wish more humans realized all of the above.
- anchises479 14y ago
  These are unconscious social biases. Men are not evil for not hiring women when they don't understand the style of communication being used. When women are hesitant explaining the gaps in their resumes from childcare, or don't have any confidence answering questions, it's hard to blame men for going with someone they see as confident.

kirarev 14y ago

I wish this article mentioned more information about LadyCoders. I feel like it lead up to the point "go to a LadyCoders seminar" without explaining much about what LadyCoders is. Guess I'll just have to do my own research.

anchises479 14y ago
I'm happy to answer your questions here in the comments. I am one of the LadyCoders; my name is Tarah Wheeler Van Vlack. LadyCoders is an initiative that puts on seminars and provides mentorship for programmers (often women) who find that they're having problems getting jobs in tech. Women often suffer from Impostor Syndrome. That frequently manifests itself as the inability to be confident about their skills in front of technical interviewers.
- kirarev 14y ago
  Do you guys ever consider getting involved with University Computer Science programs? I went to this extremely depressing "females in computer science" sort of mentoring meeting today and all of the women holding it essentially conveyed the idea "don't go into industry (got to grad school), they will eat you alive since you're a woman." it was horrid to hear this from other women. I'm glad to see that not everyone agrees with that.

doktrin 14y ago

"Learning to code" feels like a very amorphous and vague notion. Does it mean knowing iterators and for-loops? Integrating 2 web APIs? Building a compiler? Speaking for myself : I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer. The problem isn't my lack of presentation, it's a lack of knowledge. This may be the case for others as well.

bawllz 14y ago
Pretty close to my sentiment with the uprise in "<blah blah blah> learn to code". 'Code' is just logic. Its not hard to learn. What is hard to learn is how to translate ideas into a programming language, or better yet, into a <i>system</i>. C0d1ng 15 3Z, designing and developing a system to efficiently and effectively perform a task is hard.
- tanglisha 14y ago
  The author went to one of the coding bootcamps, so that's the context for this article. I haven't been to one, but I doubt they have time to get into computer science so much as coding.
lacker 14y ago
I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer. I disagree. In today's job market, if you can code, you can get hired as a computer programmer. Are https://github.com/arn-e https://github.com/arn-e and http://a-rne.tumblr.com/ http://a-rne.tumblr.com/ your work? (From your profile.) If so, you should definitely be able to get hired as a programmer. If you don't believe me, contact me at my HN username at gmail, and I can help you out.
- anchises479 14y ago
  Then why do so many women say they keep getting tracked out of software development jobs?

jordo37 14y ago

Great to see LadyCoders getting more attention here on HN. From my time working with awesome women in startups and in a big tech shop it seemed like this was always a challenge given social norms. That's why I backed LadyCoders on kickstarter and I can't wait to see how they keep growing.

anchises479 14y ago
Thanks for supporting women in tech.
- StavrosK 14y ago
  Is anybody against women in tech? Serious question, I'm all for anyone who wants to learn how to program, regardless of gender or age, and I can't imagine anyone not supporting it. Also: Hey Tarah! Just saw this was you. Great job with LadyCoders, I hope it gets even better.
  - tanglisha 14y ago
    I think the majority of people are not against women in tech. Most of the issues are fairly unconscious bias. Some people just assume women aren't as good at tech jobs as men are. Some people assume pretty women are stupid. Some people are simply uncomfortable around women, so don't put themselves into a position where they will be around them. Issues with actually getting women into tech jobs range from their manner of speech (for example, raising their voices at the end of sentences) to being overly modest about their job skills.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      Hmm, that's interesting, I would never have guessed that the manner of speech is something that might need improvement. I guess the points you mentioned apply to any job (and probably gender), though.
      - tanglisha 14y ago

anchises479 14y ago

The reason I posted this was to show that the people who want and need to come to our seminars are people who already know how to code, but don't know how to get jobs in tech. You can learn about our seminars here: http://ladycoders.com/about-us/about-our-seminars/ http://ladycoders.com/about-us/about-our-seminars/ You can register for seminars here: http://ladycoders.com/event-registration/ http://ladycoders.com/event-registration/ You can also see some of the nice and nasty things people have said about us here: Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-helping-women_b_2599848.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-helping-... CBS Radio: http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-Ladies-Succeed-in-the-Tech-World http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-Ladies-S... Or here: http://ladycoders.com/as-seen-on/ http://ladycoders.com/as-seen-on/