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Based on that advice, I was under the impression that stop-and-go driving at low speeds in the city would help, not hurt, my mileage. How does someone this una

Based on that advice, I was under the impression that stop-and-go driving at low speeds in the city would help, not hurt, my mileage. How does someone this unaware of how transportation works end up in a position to be reviewing cars in a professional setting?

codex 14y ago
He called Tesla and acted on the advice they gave him. In this respect, he was acting like a normal consumer, not an automobile expert, which is precisely why I like his review. One shouldn't have to drive a Tesla like a auto expert to avoid getting into trouble.
- jonknee 14y ago
  And yet somehow all the real people who paid good money to buy this car have managed to figure out not to become stranded on their first drive. It's not rocket science (though Elon could help there too).
  - vor_ 14y ago
    I can't help but doubt that you have spoken to all the drivers.
  - antiterra 14y ago
    Do we have good data on this, that no one who set out on their first long distance drive on the east coast in cold weather came up short in power between stations? A quick search of their forums turned up at least anecdotal evidence of owners running out of juice in their Tesla Roadsters.
bigdubs 14y ago
I think they're falsely assuming that electric cars work like hybrids, in that regenerative breaking will help boost economy vs. driving on a highway where you don't get this benefit. This isn't out of the question, you would assume that the Tesla's regenerative breaking would help it in the city.
antiterra 14y ago
As has been brought up in previous discussions, his primary role is as a "Green" correspondent, not an auto columnist. However, his inference wasn't all that crazy- consider, for example, that published mpg for the Prius is higher for city driving than on highways. Edit: Further, Tesla's own blog states the following, which could probably influence many to infer what Broder did: In contrast slower city driving speeds are more efficient and electric vehicles have a unique benefit in stop and go, low-speed driving due to regenerative braking http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range
- jonknee 14y ago
  There's highway, city and "stop and go" city. It doesn't matter what kind of car you have, gridlock is going to be inefficient.
  - doki_pen 14y ago
    But it could be less inefficient as driving 55mph on the highway with this particular car, no?
  - antiterra 14y ago
    At some speed, driving fast on the highway will eventually be less efficient than driving in very bad gridlock. It isn't entirely unreasonable to incorrectly estimate the intersection of two causes of inefficiency in driving. It's probably possible to design a car so aerodynamically inefficient at 35+ mph that stop and go is preferable to cruising at even moderate speeds.
    - klinquist 14y ago
      ...although it should be noted that the Model S has the second best drag coefficient on the market today (it was the first before a new Benz was released in 2013): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient
- 14y ago
mpyne 14y ago
In fairness, that's what he was told by Tesla Motors when he expressed his concern with his remaining range. It's also not completely insane: Energy requirements for driving go up approximately as the square of the velocity. This would normally make city driving exceptionally efficient. The reason it's not efficient is because of all the energy lost due to idling and from being dissipated in the brakes. If the Tesla is able to idle at a much lower energy than a gas-powered car (which should be true) and if it can reclaim energy from braking by using regeneration then it could very well use less energy to "take a shortcut" through Manhattan. Whatever gains he might have obtained were eliminated by the extra distance though (and it's not even clear there were gains to be had). The right answer is even simpler (albeit frustrating): Drive slower.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  Yeah, that and the whole Newton's First Law thing. :-|
  - mpyne 14y ago
    Well, that's the beautiful thing about regenerative braking: The "external force" required to slow down the car comes from the electric motor itself, from the counter-torque of the motor acting as a generator to charge the battery. It's not lossless but it's far better than letting all the kinetic energy dissipate as heat.
- elemeno 14y ago
  There's no reason for an electric car to idle at all - if you're stopped in traffic, why would you need to provide any power to the motor when the start up time for an electric motor is near instantaneous.
  - amenghra 14y ago
    something has to power that nice 17'' touch screen :)
    - 14y ago
roc 14y ago
When you're writing for an unsophisticated audience, it's generally more profitable to be a good writer than particularly knowledgeable about the subject.
brown9-2 14y ago
Seems like a fair impression if you include the sentence in the article immediately preceding the one you quoted: She said to shut off the cruise control to take advantage of battery regeneration from occasional braking and slowing down.

codex 14y ago

He called Tesla and acted on the advice they gave him. In this respect, he was acting like a normal consumer, not an automobile expert, which is precisely why I like his review. One shouldn't have to drive a Tesla like a auto expert to avoid getting into trouble.

jonknee 14y ago
And yet somehow all the real people who paid good money to buy this car have managed to figure out not to become stranded on their first drive. It's not rocket science (though Elon could help there too).
- vor_ 14y ago
  I can't help but doubt that you have spoken to all the drivers.
- antiterra 14y ago
  Do we have good data on this, that no one who set out on their first long distance drive on the east coast in cold weather came up short in power between stations? A quick search of their forums turned up at least anecdotal evidence of owners running out of juice in their Tesla Roadsters.

bigdubs 14y ago

I think they're falsely assuming that electric cars work like hybrids, in that regenerative breaking will help boost economy vs. driving on a highway where you don't get this benefit. This isn't out of the question, you would assume that the Tesla's regenerative breaking would help it in the city.

antiterra 14y ago

As has been brought up in previous discussions, his primary role is as a "Green" correspondent, not an auto columnist. However, his inference wasn't all that crazy- consider, for example, that published mpg for the Prius is higher for city driving than on highways. Edit: Further, Tesla's own blog states the following, which could probably influence many to infer what Broder did: In contrast slower city driving speeds are more efficient and electric vehicles have a unique benefit in stop and go, low-speed driving due to regenerative braking http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range

jonknee 14y ago
There's highway, city and "stop and go" city. It doesn't matter what kind of car you have, gridlock is going to be inefficient.
- doki_pen 14y ago
  But it could be less inefficient as driving 55mph on the highway with this particular car, no?
- antiterra 14y ago
  At some speed, driving fast on the highway will eventually be less efficient than driving in very bad gridlock. It isn't entirely unreasonable to incorrectly estimate the intersection of two causes of inefficiency in driving. It's probably possible to design a car so aerodynamically inefficient at 35+ mph that stop and go is preferable to cruising at even moderate speeds.
  - klinquist 14y ago
    ...although it should be noted that the Model S has the second best drag coefficient on the market today (it was the first before a new Benz was released in 2013): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient
14y ago

mpyne 14y ago

In fairness, that's what he was told by Tesla Motors when he expressed his concern with his remaining range. It's also not completely insane: Energy requirements for driving go up approximately as the square of the velocity. This would normally make city driving exceptionally efficient. The reason it's not efficient is because of all the energy lost due to idling and from being dissipated in the brakes. If the Tesla is able to idle at a much lower energy than a gas-powered car (which should be true) and if it can reclaim energy from braking by using regeneration then it could very well use less energy to "take a shortcut" through Manhattan. Whatever gains he might have obtained were eliminated by the extra distance though (and it's not even clear there were gains to be had). The right answer is even simpler (albeit frustrating): Drive slower.

CamperBob2 14y ago
Yeah, that and the whole Newton's First Law thing. :-|
- mpyne 14y ago
  Well, that's the beautiful thing about regenerative braking: The "external force" required to slow down the car comes from the electric motor itself, from the counter-torque of the motor acting as a generator to charge the battery. It's not lossless but it's far better than letting all the kinetic energy dissipate as heat.
elemeno 14y ago
There's no reason for an electric car to idle at all - if you're stopped in traffic, why would you need to provide any power to the motor when the start up time for an electric motor is near instantaneous.
- amenghra 14y ago
  something has to power that nice 17'' touch screen :)
  - 14y ago

roc 14y ago

When you're writing for an unsophisticated audience, it's generally more profitable to be a good writer than particularly knowledgeable about the subject.

brown9-2 14y ago

Seems like a fair impression if you include the sentence in the article immediately preceding the one you quoted: She said to shut off the cruise control to take advantage of battery regeneration from occasional braking and slowing down.