5 ms·

"STOP! WebKit is required here. The Comix Editor was tested under Chrome. It uses some webkit-specific tricks." WebKit - the new IE.

by znowi 14y ago

lvh 14y ago
Strange, I don't get that message in Firefox; also it appears to work fine, but maybe I'm missing out on some stuff :)
Osmose 14y ago
A warning is fine, but I just hate it when a site doesn't even let me try in another browser. I use Firefox Nightly, maybe it fixed the issues that are breaking your app? If you're detecting via user agent, what if I use an odd user agent? What if I want to look at the web console to see just what breaks in case I know what the issue is?
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  > I use Firefox Nightly, maybe it fixed the issues that are breaking your app? If it's using -webkit prefixed CSS, that's pretty unlikely. > What if I want to look at the web console to see just what breaks in case I know what the issue is? Anyone interested in doing that should be well aware of how to spoof a user agent.
  - JoshTriplett 14y ago
    > If it's using -webkit prefixed CSS, that's pretty unlikely. Unsupported CSS features should not affect the functionality of a web app, only its appearance. Emphasis on "should"; far too many web apps end up fundamentally broken when this happens.
    - dmbass 14y ago
      Well how do you expect it to work when the functionality is to change the appearance?
    - dr_win 14y ago
      I think something like web-based SVG editor is pushing browser limits too far (some folks reported it crashed Chrome for them). CSS is not "just styling" here. It has functional meaning. For example invalid z-ordering, visibility or cursors can pretty much ruin the experience.
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      It's a proof-of-concept hobby project, as far as I can tell.
    - blowski 14y ago
      While this is true of bank, ecommerce, news, etc, sites, it doesn't apply when the author is just sharing something he's playing around with.
  - yareally 14y ago
    They should at least include the non-prefix css (or other prefixes) as well for when a feature becomes available on other browsers in case they forget to update it or if they're not aware of what other browsers support.
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      If you're building NBCnews.com, sure. If you're building a fun hobby project, you can do whatever you like, including building it in a specific environment.
      - yareally 14y ago
        Of course :) However, it does limit feedback for any of us not using Chrome. Author is probably cool with that though as it appears and I commend them for not making us jump through hoops to try it anyways by switching user agent.
    - chadscira 14y ago
      or use something like this https://github.com/LeaVerou/prefixfree https://github.com/LeaVerou/prefixfree
  - mrb 14y ago
    "Anyone interested in doing that should be well aware of how to spoof a user agent." You are not answering the question. Why block a user-agent, if the check can be easily worked around? Edit: I mean why block as opposed to display a simple warning ("this site is known to not work well with your browser").
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      So non technical users go "oh, I'll take a look in Chrome", not "this thing's stupid, nothing works".
      - mrb 14y ago
        The same thing can be achieved by displaying a simple warning that lets users bypass it ("oh, I was warned it might not work in my browser, and indeed it doesn't, I will take a look in Chrome").
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    Q: "I use Firefox Nightly, maybe it fixed the issues that are breaking your app?" A: "If it's using -webkit prefixed CSS, that's pretty unlikely." There's actually been talk of non-Webkit vendors supporting the webkit prefix. Opera already does, Microsoft and Mozilla have said they need to support it in at least some cases. "Non-WebKit browser vendors first started talking about implementing the -webkit prefix [in February of 2012] during a CSS Working Group meeting. Microsoft, Mozilla and Opera all said they felt the need to support -webkit, lest their users be relegated to an inferior browsing experience (because so many sites are using only the -webkit prefix)." http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/04/opera-forges-ahead-with-plan-to-support-webkit-prefixes/ http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/04/opera-forges-ahead-with-pla... Tantek Çelik of Mozilla: "At this point we're trying to figure out which and how many webkit prefix properties to actually implement support for in Mozilla. Currently we have zero. Zero is no longer an option for us." Florian Rivoal (Opera), Sylvain Galineau (Microsoft): "Zero is not an option for us anymore either." http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0313.html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0313.h...
    - illicium 14y ago
      I hope browser vendors only implement support for webkit- prefixes for now-standard properties (eg. box-shadow), and not for properties that only WebKit implements.
dr_win 14y ago
It doesn't work under FF Nightly. I'm sorry this was a quick way how to deal with the issue. I don't want to deal with complains "it is broken / it doesn't work for me". I'm going to push new version which will allow you to continue over that warning.
- dr_win 14y ago
  Updated, refresh your caches: https://github.com/darwin/cmx.io/commit/02ae7bc5b37cfc3117f8c511439ff9410ac144cb https://github.com/darwin/cmx.io/commit/02ae7bc5b37cfc3117f8...
  - Osmose 14y ago
    Thank you very much for the update! I apologize for being rude before, I don't want to bring you down on a very successful day on Hacker News. :) For what it's worth, though the visual editor doesn't work in Nightly, the code editor + saving does work! It was really fun to mess around with the source and edit your sample comic. Great work!
baddox 14y ago
The main problem with IE wasn't that it was an exclusive product incompatible with other browsers. The problem was that it was bad. I'm not a fan of people only supporting WebKit, but at least WebKit browsers are good.
- wazoox 14y ago
  I used IE briefly in 2000 and 2001, before Mozilla (0.9) became usable enough and Phoenix came out; back then (IE 5.5 to IE 6.0) it definitely was the best browser, by far.
  - jackalope 14y ago
    It was the most forgiving browser, with a quirks mode that handled broken code like a champ. But Opera was the best browser, and if your code rendered correctly in it, it would probably render correctly everywhere else (except maybe Netscape 4, an abomination that took too long to die).
    - nirvdrum 14y ago
      Opera was also commercial. At some point there was a free adware version, but I think that was later than 2001. After IE, most people stopped paying for web browsers.
- dubcanada 14y ago
  IE isn't bad. It's bad because it is like 10 years old. IE actually innovated a ton of what we consider javascript and CSS/HTML now and days.
- lambda 14y ago
  Actually, for a while, IE was the best browser available. It was lighter weight, faster than Netscape, and had better web standards support. Mozilla, with its new Gecko engine, took a long time to mature, and was still fairly slow and bloated until Firefox (née Phoenix) came around. Remember, IE was where several features that now form the basis of the modern web came from. Heard of something called XMLHttpRequest? That came from IE.
zobzu 14y ago
Yep. <strikeout>HTML Standards</strikeout> <strikeout>webkit</strikeout> Chrome proposed standards. We're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
0x0 14y ago
It's not the new IE, far from it. You can run Chrome on Linux, Mac and Windows! And at least in theory you can have a go at trying to port the Chromium browser to other platforms, as well.

"STOP! WebKit is required here. The Comix Editor was tested under Chrome. It uses some webkit-specific tricks." WebKit - the new IE.

by znowi 14y ago

"STOP! WebKit is required here. The Comix Editor was tested under Chrome. It uses some webkit-specific tricks." WebKit - the new IE.

lvh 14y ago

Strange, I don't get that message in Firefox; also it appears to work fine, but maybe I'm missing out on some stuff :)

Osmose 14y ago

A warning is fine, but I just hate it when a site doesn't even let me try in another browser. I use Firefox Nightly, maybe it fixed the issues that are breaking your app? If you're detecting via user agent, what if I use an odd user agent? What if I want to look at the web console to see just what breaks in case I know what the issue is?

ceejayoz 14y ago
> I use Firefox Nightly, maybe it fixed the issues that are breaking your app? If it's using -webkit prefixed CSS, that's pretty unlikely. > What if I want to look at the web console to see just what breaks in case I know what the issue is? Anyone interested in doing that should be well aware of how to spoof a user agent.
- JoshTriplett 14y ago
  > If it's using -webkit prefixed CSS, that's pretty unlikely. Unsupported CSS features should not affect the functionality of a web app, only its appearance. Emphasis on "should"; far too many web apps end up fundamentally broken when this happens.
  - dmbass 14y ago
    Well how do you expect it to work when the functionality is to change the appearance?
  - dr_win 14y ago
    I think something like web-based SVG editor is pushing browser limits too far (some folks reported it crashed Chrome for them). CSS is not "just styling" here. It has functional meaning. For example invalid z-ordering, visibility or cursors can pretty much ruin the experience.
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    It's a proof-of-concept hobby project, as far as I can tell.
  - blowski 14y ago
    While this is true of bank, ecommerce, news, etc, sites, it doesn't apply when the author is just sharing something he's playing around with.
- yareally 14y ago
  They should at least include the non-prefix css (or other prefixes) as well for when a feature becomes available on other browsers in case they forget to update it or if they're not aware of what other browsers support.
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    If you're building NBCnews.com, sure. If you're building a fun hobby project, you can do whatever you like, including building it in a specific environment.
    - yareally 14y ago
      Of course :) However, it does limit feedback for any of us not using Chrome. Author is probably cool with that though as it appears and I commend them for not making us jump through hoops to try it anyways by switching user agent.
  - chadscira 14y ago
    or use something like this https://github.com/LeaVerou/prefixfree https://github.com/LeaVerou/prefixfree
- mrb 14y ago
  "Anyone interested in doing that should be well aware of how to spoof a user agent." You are not answering the question. Why block a user-agent, if the check can be easily worked around? Edit: I mean why block as opposed to display a simple warning ("this site is known to not work well with your browser").
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    So non technical users go "oh, I'll take a look in Chrome", not "this thing's stupid, nothing works".
    - mrb 14y ago
      The same thing can be achieved by displaying a simple warning that lets users bypass it ("oh, I was warned it might not work in my browser, and indeed it doesn't, I will take a look in Chrome").
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  Q: "I use Firefox Nightly, maybe it fixed the issues that are breaking your app?" A: "If it's using -webkit prefixed CSS, that's pretty unlikely." There's actually been talk of non-Webkit vendors supporting the webkit prefix. Opera already does, Microsoft and Mozilla have said they need to support it in at least some cases. "Non-WebKit browser vendors first started talking about implementing the -webkit prefix [in February of 2012] during a CSS Working Group meeting. Microsoft, Mozilla and Opera all said they felt the need to support -webkit, lest their users be relegated to an inferior browsing experience (because so many sites are using only the -webkit prefix)." http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/04/opera-forges-ahead-with-plan-to-support-webkit-prefixes/ http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/04/opera-forges-ahead-with-pla... Tantek Çelik of Mozilla: "At this point we're trying to figure out which and how many webkit prefix properties to actually implement support for in Mozilla. Currently we have zero. Zero is no longer an option for us." Florian Rivoal (Opera), Sylvain Galineau (Microsoft): "Zero is not an option for us anymore either." http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0313.html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0313.h...
  - illicium 14y ago
    I hope browser vendors only implement support for webkit- prefixes for now-standard properties (eg. box-shadow), and not for properties that only WebKit implements.

dr_win 14y ago

It doesn't work under FF Nightly. I'm sorry this was a quick way how to deal with the issue. I don't want to deal with complains "it is broken / it doesn't work for me". I'm going to push new version which will allow you to continue over that warning.

dr_win 14y ago
Updated, refresh your caches: https://github.com/darwin/cmx.io/commit/02ae7bc5b37cfc3117f8c511439ff9410ac144cb https://github.com/darwin/cmx.io/commit/02ae7bc5b37cfc3117f8...
- Osmose 14y ago
  Thank you very much for the update! I apologize for being rude before, I don't want to bring you down on a very successful day on Hacker News. :) For what it's worth, though the visual editor doesn't work in Nightly, the code editor + saving does work! It was really fun to mess around with the source and edit your sample comic. Great work!

baddox 14y ago

The main problem with IE wasn't that it was an exclusive product incompatible with other browsers. The problem was that it was bad. I'm not a fan of people only supporting WebKit, but at least WebKit browsers are good.

wazoox 14y ago
I used IE briefly in 2000 and 2001, before Mozilla (0.9) became usable enough and Phoenix came out; back then (IE 5.5 to IE 6.0) it definitely was the best browser, by far.
- jackalope 14y ago
  It was the most forgiving browser, with a quirks mode that handled broken code like a champ. But Opera was the best browser, and if your code rendered correctly in it, it would probably render correctly everywhere else (except maybe Netscape 4, an abomination that took too long to die).
  - nirvdrum 14y ago
    Opera was also commercial. At some point there was a free adware version, but I think that was later than 2001. After IE, most people stopped paying for web browsers.
dubcanada 14y ago
IE isn't bad. It's bad because it is like 10 years old. IE actually innovated a ton of what we consider javascript and CSS/HTML now and days.
lambda 14y ago
Actually, for a while, IE was the best browser available. It was lighter weight, faster than Netscape, and had better web standards support. Mozilla, with its new Gecko engine, took a long time to mature, and was still fairly slow and bloated until Firefox (née Phoenix) came around. Remember, IE was where several features that now form the basis of the modern web came from. Heard of something called XMLHttpRequest? That came from IE.

zobzu 14y ago

Yep. <strikeout>HTML Standards</strikeout> <strikeout>webkit</strikeout> Chrome proposed standards. We're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

0x0 14y ago

It's not the new IE, far from it. You can run Chrome on Linux, Mac and Windows! And at least in theory you can have a go at trying to port the Chromium browser to other platforms, as well.