6 ms·

Cheap products, great products, and good support. Pick two.

by patejam 14y ago

Dylan16807 14y ago
They're not cheap.
- notatoad 14y ago
  In what universe does a $299 nexus 4 not count as cheap?
  - jmillikin 14y ago
    A new iPhone costs $200 from any major US carrier. Most other Android phones are between $100 and $200. At $300 or $350, the Nexus 4 is priced as a premium device.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - biot 14y ago
      > A new iPhone costs $200 from any major US carrier. $200 is the down payment.
      - jmillikin 14y ago
        $200 is the cost to buy the phone. In Europe, that's a down payment on a standard financing deal, and after the phone has been paid off, your monthly bill goes down. In America, that's the price to straight-up purchase the phone. Your monthly bill will be the same regardless of whether you bought your phone from the carrier, or brought your own.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        If you get a feature phone, then cancel after a month, how much are you charged? How much are you charged if you got an iphone instead?
        jmillikin 14y ago
        Depends on the carrier; with mine (Sprint), termination after one month would cost $200 for a basic phone, and $350 for any smartphone regardless of subsidy ( http://support.sprint.com/support/article/Learn_about_early_termination_fee/case-sp061027-20110823-171256 http://support.sprint.com/support/article/Learn_about_early_... ). But most people do not cancel their contract after one month; they just wait out the term because carrier quality rarely changes so quickly that it's worth eating hundreds of dollars in termination fees to switch.
        fpgeek 14y ago
        > But most people do not cancel their contract after one > month; they just wait out the term because carrier quality > rarely changes so quickly that it's worth eating hundreds > of dollars in termination fees to switch. In other words, most people are gambling that they will save money over the course of a contract. They're gambling that: That they don't break or lose their phone during the contract. That they don't go overseas for a trip and end up paying expensive roaming charges or not using their fancy new phone. That they can't save money by switching to another carrier (and this can be unexpected: see T-Mobile refarm). That their home (or office or other place they care about coverage) doesn't move somewhere where their contracted carrier doesn't have acceptable coverage. And that their definition of acceptable coverage doesn't change (e.g. being comfortable with HSPA coverage at the start of a contract, but later wanting LTE coverage for their new LTE phone). That they don't end up in a committed relationship with someone on another carrier (preventing them from saving money by consolidating to a family plan). And, and, and... Do plenty of people win the gamble? Absolutely. Do plenty of people lose it too? Absolutely. But you can't pretend that the gamble is cost-free. There are plenty of costs and strings attached.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        galadriel 14y ago
        Well compare oranges to oranges then. Nexus 4 is $50 on contract on T-Mobile, and is definitely cheaper than iPhone 5 on any of the three networks. Also, no law dictates that you have to sign a contract to get cell service in America. One can as well choose from few of the cheaper prepaid services.
        jmillikin 14y ago
        T-Mobile charges $200 for a Nexus 4; at least, they did the last time I was in one of their stores. And if there's one thing the Galaxy Nexus has taught me, it's that any Nexus purchased from a carrier will provide a much worse experience than one purchased on Play (due to carrier malware and delayed software updates). > Also, no law dictates that you have to sign a contract > to get cell service in America. One can as well choose > from few of the cheaper prepaid services. Equivalent service from the same provider is typically charged at the same rate, regardless of whether the customer has a contract. That's my point -- since there's no difference in service price, it's silly to say the phone is more expensive under a contract plan. If you're comparing different service providers, then of course there will be some who have lower monthly rates and higher initial purchase prices. The tradeoff is that these providers usually provide much lower-quality service.
        galadriel 14y ago
        No they do not. I personally use T-Mobile $30 monthly prepaid plan with 100 minutes/5 GB/unlimited text. The service is no way inferior to any regular service that T-mobile provides. Whether you buy Nexus 4 from T-mobile for 50 bucks and pay more monthly bill with contract, or choose one of their prepaid plan and pay less TCO, the phone and software is exactly the same. I thought you would know this, you work at Google. The cell companies do what you have effectively said before, they price differentiate based on who can pay what. Don't have money to buy phone upfront, well we will sell you for cheap and make the difference in contract rate. Have more money? Well then BYOD and get our cheaper prepaid services. I will concede on one point, the big 4 (except T-mobile) make it incredibly hard for you to find and compare their prepaid services, for obvious reason that contract customer bring in more money over years.
        biot 14y ago
        Heck, I'll sell you an iPhone 5 for $1 if you agree to sign up for my 2 year Good Vibes Karma service (I send "good vibes" your way monthly; phone services not included) at $50/month. Cancelling the service incurs an $800 early termination fee. If that's a $1 phone to you, can you direct me to any friends and family who think the same way? I feel I may be selling a lot of $1 iPhones.
        jmillikin 14y ago
        Your service is worthless, but the service that comes with an iPhone is required for the phone to operate.
        biot 14y ago
        The point you're missing is that the paid service is subsidizing the $200 price, much like my useless Good Vibes service subsidizes the $1 price. As both AT&T and Sprint indicate on their websites, the straight-up purchase price is $649.99 for an iPhone 5: http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/5-16gb-black.html http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/5-16gb... http://shop.sprint.com/mysprint/shop/phone_details.jsp?prodId=dvc6580001prd&deviceSKUId=65800057 http://shop.sprint.com/mysprint/shop/phone_details.jsp?prodI... If you don't want to pay the straight-up price, you can subsidize it with a minimum voice and data monthly plan. Then it becomes a bundled package. You cannot separate the phone from the bundle and say that the bundled price is the straight-up price. For Sprint, their minimum plan (advertised online) is $79.99 a month. So for 2 years, that's a bundle price of $2119.75 for the iPhone 5 and service. If you don't want the bundle price, your only option is to pay $649.99 for the iPhone 5. Also note that cell phone service is not a requirement. You can use the iPhone as a WiFi iPod and get an inactive SIM so that you can use the phone for 911 calls, to which the carriers must complete all calls even if you have no service.
    - notatoad 14y ago
      If i go to the AT&T website, they list the iPhone 5 at $649. you get a $450 subsidy by signing up for a 2-year contract, but that doesn't mean the phone is priced at $199.
      - jmillikin 14y ago
        Say you buy the phone for $650, and then sign up for service at $80/month or whatever AT&T charges. Meanwhile, your friend Susan buys $200 for the phone, and signs up for the same service at the same $80/month. The only difference is that she promised to pay a fee if she decides to switch carriers in the next two years. Do you still think the phone is really priced at $650? To me, it seems like some fairly trivial market segmentation. The phone's regular price is $200, but they're making some extra money from people who place an abnormally high value on being able to switch providers on a whim.
        driverdan 14y ago
        Or, you buy a $299 Nexus 4 and sign up for $45/m no contract service instead of $80+/m 2 year contract.
        jmillikin 14y ago
        Please direct me to an American carrier that offers the same service for $80/month with contract and $45/month without.
        wmf 14y ago
        Straight Talk provides a $45 plan that's very similar to a much more expensive AT&T plan. (Perhaps most iPhone owners are too cool to step into Wal-Mart.)
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
  - notimetorelax 14y ago
    Damn after seeing your comment went to check its price here in Switzerland, it's 482 CHF (525 USD). http://en.toppreise.ch/index.php?search=nexus+4&sRes=OK http://en.toppreise.ch/index.php?search=nexus+4&sRes=OK
    - notatoad 14y ago
      exactly, because at that price you aren't buying it from google, you're buying it from a local retailer. Here in canada we have the play store and can buy it for $309, or we can buy it for ~$500 from a local retailer. If you pay the extra $200, chances are you'll have a slightly better purchasing experience than you would through the play store. Google is buying the right to provide you with shitty service.

Cheap products, great products, and good support. Pick two.

by patejam 14y ago

Cheap products, great products, and good support. Pick two.

Dylan16807 14y ago

They're not cheap.

notatoad 14y ago
In what universe does a $299 nexus 4 not count as cheap?
- jmillikin 14y ago
  A new iPhone costs $200 from any major US carrier. Most other Android phones are between $100 and $200. At $300 or $350, the Nexus 4 is priced as a premium device.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - biot 14y ago
    > A new iPhone costs $200 from any major US carrier. $200 is the down payment.
    - jmillikin 14y ago
      $200 is the cost to buy the phone. In Europe, that's a down payment on a standard financing deal, and after the phone has been paid off, your monthly bill goes down. In America, that's the price to straight-up purchase the phone. Your monthly bill will be the same regardless of whether you bought your phone from the carrier, or brought your own.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        If you get a feature phone, then cancel after a month, how much are you charged? How much are you charged if you got an iphone instead?
        jmillikin 14y ago
        Depends on the carrier; with mine (Sprint), termination after one month would cost $200 for a basic phone, and $350 for any smartphone regardless of subsidy ( http://support.sprint.com/support/article/Learn_about_early_termination_fee/case-sp061027-20110823-171256 http://support.sprint.com/support/article/Learn_about_early_... ). But most people do not cancel their contract after one month; they just wait out the term because carrier quality rarely changes so quickly that it's worth eating hundreds of dollars in termination fees to switch.
        fpgeek 14y ago
        > But most people do not cancel their contract after one > month; they just wait out the term because carrier quality > rarely changes so quickly that it's worth eating hundreds > of dollars in termination fees to switch. In other words, most people are gambling that they will save money over the course of a contract. They're gambling that: That they don't break or lose their phone during the contract. That they don't go overseas for a trip and end up paying expensive roaming charges or not using their fancy new phone. That they can't save money by switching to another carrier (and this can be unexpected: see T-Mobile refarm). That their home (or office or other place they care about coverage) doesn't move somewhere where their contracted carrier doesn't have acceptable coverage. And that their definition of acceptable coverage doesn't change (e.g. being comfortable with HSPA coverage at the start of a contract, but later wanting LTE coverage for their new LTE phone). That they don't end up in a committed relationship with someone on another carrier (preventing them from saving money by consolidating to a family plan). And, and, and... Do plenty of people win the gamble? Absolutely. Do plenty of people lose it too? Absolutely. But you can't pretend that the gamble is cost-free. There are plenty of costs and strings attached.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - galadriel 14y ago
        Well compare oranges to oranges then. Nexus 4 is $50 on contract on T-Mobile, and is definitely cheaper than iPhone 5 on any of the three networks. Also, no law dictates that you have to sign a contract to get cell service in America. One can as well choose from few of the cheaper prepaid services.
        jmillikin 14y ago
        T-Mobile charges $200 for a Nexus 4; at least, they did the last time I was in one of their stores. And if there's one thing the Galaxy Nexus has taught me, it's that any Nexus purchased from a carrier will provide a much worse experience than one purchased on Play (due to carrier malware and delayed software updates). > Also, no law dictates that you have to sign a contract > to get cell service in America. One can as well choose > from few of the cheaper prepaid services. Equivalent service from the same provider is typically charged at the same rate, regardless of whether the customer has a contract. That's my point -- since there's no difference in service price, it's silly to say the phone is more expensive under a contract plan. If you're comparing different service providers, then of course there will be some who have lower monthly rates and higher initial purchase prices. The tradeoff is that these providers usually provide much lower-quality service.
        galadriel 14y ago
        No they do not. I personally use T-Mobile $30 monthly prepaid plan with 100 minutes/5 GB/unlimited text. The service is no way inferior to any regular service that T-mobile provides. Whether you buy Nexus 4 from T-mobile for 50 bucks and pay more monthly bill with contract, or choose one of their prepaid plan and pay less TCO, the phone and software is exactly the same. I thought you would know this, you work at Google. The cell companies do what you have effectively said before, they price differentiate based on who can pay what. Don't have money to buy phone upfront, well we will sell you for cheap and make the difference in contract rate. Have more money? Well then BYOD and get our cheaper prepaid services. I will concede on one point, the big 4 (except T-mobile) make it incredibly hard for you to find and compare their prepaid services, for obvious reason that contract customer bring in more money over years.
      - biot 14y ago
        Heck, I'll sell you an iPhone 5 for $1 if you agree to sign up for my 2 year Good Vibes Karma service (I send "good vibes" your way monthly; phone services not included) at $50/month. Cancelling the service incurs an $800 early termination fee. If that's a $1 phone to you, can you direct me to any friends and family who think the same way? I feel I may be selling a lot of $1 iPhones.
        jmillikin 14y ago
        Your service is worthless, but the service that comes with an iPhone is required for the phone to operate.
        biot 14y ago
        The point you're missing is that the paid service is subsidizing the $200 price, much like my useless Good Vibes service subsidizes the $1 price. As both AT&T and Sprint indicate on their websites, the straight-up purchase price is $649.99 for an iPhone 5: http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/5-16gb-black.html http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/5-16gb... http://shop.sprint.com/mysprint/shop/phone_details.jsp?prodId=dvc6580001prd&deviceSKUId=65800057 http://shop.sprint.com/mysprint/shop/phone_details.jsp?prodI... If you don't want to pay the straight-up price, you can subsidize it with a minimum voice and data monthly plan. Then it becomes a bundled package. You cannot separate the phone from the bundle and say that the bundled price is the straight-up price. For Sprint, their minimum plan (advertised online) is $79.99 a month. So for 2 years, that's a bundle price of $2119.75 for the iPhone 5 and service. If you don't want the bundle price, your only option is to pay $649.99 for the iPhone 5. Also note that cell phone service is not a requirement. You can use the iPhone as a WiFi iPod and get an inactive SIM so that you can use the phone for 911 calls, to which the carriers must complete all calls even if you have no service.
  - notatoad 14y ago
    If i go to the AT&T website, they list the iPhone 5 at $649. you get a $450 subsidy by signing up for a 2-year contract, but that doesn't mean the phone is priced at $199.
    - jmillikin 14y ago
      Say you buy the phone for $650, and then sign up for service at $80/month or whatever AT&T charges. Meanwhile, your friend Susan buys $200 for the phone, and signs up for the same service at the same $80/month. The only difference is that she promised to pay a fee if she decides to switch carriers in the next two years. Do you still think the phone is really priced at $650? To me, it seems like some fairly trivial market segmentation. The phone's regular price is $200, but they're making some extra money from people who place an abnormally high value on being able to switch providers on a whim.
      - driverdan 14y ago
        Or, you buy a $299 Nexus 4 and sign up for $45/m no contract service instead of $80+/m 2 year contract.
        jmillikin 14y ago
        Please direct me to an American carrier that offers the same service for $80/month with contract and $45/month without.
        wmf 14y ago
        Straight Talk provides a $45 plan that's very similar to a much more expensive AT&T plan. (Perhaps most iPhone owners are too cool to step into Wal-Mart.)
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
- notimetorelax 14y ago
  Damn after seeing your comment went to check its price here in Switzerland, it's 482 CHF (525 USD). http://en.toppreise.ch/index.php?search=nexus+4&sRes=OK http://en.toppreise.ch/index.php?search=nexus+4&sRes=OK
  - notatoad 14y ago
    exactly, because at that price you aren't buying it from google, you're buying it from a local retailer. Here in canada we have the play store and can buy it for $309, or we can buy it for ~$500 from a local retailer. If you pay the extra $200, chances are you'll have a slightly better purchasing experience than you would through the play store. Google is buying the right to provide you with shitty service.