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Who speaks Latin these days?
- pjungwir 14y agoI can read Greek and Latin, and I think they make great hobbies for a programmer. Reading Greek feels a lot like reading Perl. (Take that however you like. :-)
- cafard 14y agoReading Greek feels a lot like reading somebody else's Perl. Now if only it felt like reading my own...
- grahamjl 14y agonemo
- hipsters_unite 14y agoRead that article and replace every instance of 'Latin' with whichever programming language is least 'cool' this week. Way better.
- chrisacky 14y agoFor no other reason than giggles, when I was at University I managed to "impress" quite a few people at University on nights out that I could speak Latin. I've been exposed to "Lorem ipsum dolor, sit amet consectetuer" so much that it's pretty easy to speak 30+ seconds of "Latin" and wing in. My other past-times also included trying to talk in a random accent for the night, people would ask where my name "Acky" is from, so I'd pretend to be from SA... Man, I need to get a life.
- Kurtz79 14y agoThis is golden : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vatican_latin_atm.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vatican_latin_atm.jpg Latin enabled ATM in the Vatican.
- astine 14y agoI've used that machine. There's an option for English.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- pixelbath 14y agoAre only priests allowed in the Vatican now?
- protomyth 14y agoTechnically, even if the machines were used only by priest, Catholic priest are not always required to take a Vow of Poverty. Certain orders do take one, some do not.
- josso 14y agoWhy do developers need to be paid so much? Can't they just live in their moms basement and work in the garage?
- fmsf 14y agoDeleted the comment to avoid offending people with that joke. But you can't compare developers with priests. I don't see being a priest as being a job, it is rather a life commitment to follow a certain path which includes "being poor". I was just joking because they never are, and in catholic countries like mine they often have a higher than average living standard.
- ybaumes 14y agoThe story tells: 'Nicholas Ostler [...] compares Latin's presence on the internet [...] to a small European language - it is comparable to "Icelandic, Lithuanian or Slovenian".' They didn't think to remove "Lorem Ipsum" texts, otherwise it must even less than that ! .. :-)
- fusiongyro 14y agoI took four years of Latin in high school, which equals probably 3 months of serious study. I recommend it as an intellectual diversion. I remember very little of it today, but it did open up my mind to grammar. Probably studying any other language would, but I liked that learning it wasn't an endorsement of any particular country.
- wickeand000 14y agoI would say that the "opening your mind to grammar" is true of learning any new language. Obviously one like Latin where the grammar is very different than English might be more effective on that front, but with any new language you are forced to think about every word as a specific part of speech. It's like when someone tells you that your tongue doesn't fit in your mouth and you spend the rest of the day consciously thinking about something that is usually completely involuntary.
- fusiongyro 14y agoThat's such a good point I'm going to time travel back to fourteen hours ago so I can add a fourth sentence to my comment to say exactly this.
- antirez 14y agoI remember that in high school while most of us were able to just translate text from italian to latin and the reverse, using a dictionary, the best latin students in the school were able to actually perform conversation. It's not too hard, you "just" require to study it a lot harder and especially do a lot of practice compared to the level required to get an acceptable rating at school.
- fmsf 14y agoLatin is one of the mandatory subjects, during high school, to apply to a Law University in Portugal.
- icebraining 14y agoI don't believe that's true anymore: http://www.dges.mctes.pt/NR/rdonlyres/D10976FF-C05F-4BF0-B571-86A560D416E7/5299/GuiaProvasIngresso2011121303.pdf http://www.dges.mctes.pt/NR/rdonlyres/D10976FF-C05F-4BF0-B57...
- pjmlp 14y agoEven if it was, it is not the same as in many European countries where it is still compulsory. As Portuguese it always surprised my that in some European countries people have Latin before any other foreign Language. In France it is still a differentiator as only good students take Latin. So if you don't want to be seen as a bad student, Latin you go.
- psykotic 14y agoWhen I went to high school in Denmark in the late 90s, Latin was still a mandatory first-year course for students on the language track (the other being the science track).
- tokenadult 14y agoThis line from the article was interesting: "And he does not think much of Benedict's tweets in Latin - 'the last one was a real case of messing up Latin word order'." That's especially bad, because Latin tends to have freer word order than (for example) English in the first place. In my university days, I had a girlfriend who was studying German and Latin (to become a secondary school teacher in those two subjects). My wife I won over with the much more practical modern language Chinese. Incidental study of Latin is useful to native speakers of Romance languages (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, and the like) to understand the origin of their native language, and somewhat less useful to speakers of most languages spoken in Europe, whether Indo-European languages or not, to understand the sources of much of their vocabulary. (Concentrated study of the sources of vocabularly of modern languages through study of word roots http://www.amazon.com/English-Words-Latin-Greek-Elements/dp/0816508992/learninfreed http://www.amazon.com/English-Words-Latin-Greek-Elements/dp/... http://www.amazon.com/English-Vocabulary-Elements-Keith-Denning/dp/0195168038/learninfreed http://www.amazon.com/English-Vocabulary-Elements-Keith-Denn... is very helpful, but that doesn't require learning Latin as a language as such.) As long as there are great landmarks in Western writing like Newton's Principia available in original Latin editions, there will always be a reward for learning Latin. But with many languages to learn to speak to many people, Latin will not be in first place as the language to learn next for interesting live conversation.
- cafard 14y agoLatin should be a fine language for Twitter, as wedging a lot into not many words. A lot of Spinoza's paragraphs in the Ethics would certainly fit in 140 characters.
- GuiA 14y agoIf that's a criteria for language selection, might as well all go with Chinese :)
- gamegoblin 14y agoIIRC Vietnamese has the highest syllabic information density of any natural language. Chinese being a close second (about 94% that of Vietnamese). Edit: found that article http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2091477,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2091477,00.ht...
- decasteve 14y agoMy interest in learning Latin is to read Newton's Principia and Gauss' Disquisitiones in original form.
- fusiongyro 14y agoHave you tried Newton's Principia: The Central Argument from Green Lion Press? http://www.greenlion.com/principi.html http://www.greenlion.com/principi.html I have this book, and it's really swell. No calculus, because Newton's Principia doesn't have calculus. It's all geometric arguments. They put Newton's text in red and their commentary in black. I haven't studied it (I'm still trying to work my way through their Euclid) but I like having it on the bookshelf.
- squozzer 14y agoLatinos? Having a Dan Quayle moment.
- cafard 14y agoRadio Finland does put effort into coming up with Latin for all sorts of things never envisioned in the Roman days: depleted uranium projectiles, the internet, etc.
- dbaupp 14y agoRadio Finland? As far as I know, Finnish is further from Latin than almost all the other European languages. Or is it just for fun?
- oscardelben 14y agoI know some people who speak latin, including in the US. They may not be fluent but people still study it. It also helps if you're a linguist interested in romance languages.
- toyg 14y agoIf I had a dime for every time this question was asked in the last 25 years, I could afford to own a VC fund. Latin is Latin is Latin. It's been the lingua franca (sic -- hey, three latin words already!) of European culture for almost 2000 years, hence transmitting and influencing each and every field of human knowledge. As long as we value European culture, there will be a consistent amount of people who have to speak some version of Latin. In most of Europe, you can't excel in law, medicine, philosophy, biology, history or theology without a decent knowledge of Latin, and it certainly helps even non-European scholars. There will always be problems with "updating" what is essentially a fossilised language in order to include modern concepts, but the core language will survive pretty much forever, at this point. It's the "K&R C" of human languages.
- gruseom 14y agoa decent knowledge of Latin "Decent knowledge" is ambiguous. There is a huge difference between being able to read a language and being able to speak it. The OP is unusual in being about the latter.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- teilo 14y ago"some version of Latin" is right. Because, really, Latin is not Latin is not Latin. For a language that had such wide use for such an extended amount of time, learning one form of Latin, such as ecclesiastical, does not necessarily help much in understanding Ovid or Plutarch. This is much the same as with ancient Greek. Knowing New Testament Greek is almost useless in understanding Plato or Homer. Even Classical Greek from extreme ends of the period differs substantially.
- StavrosK 14y agoThat said, a modern Greek can understand quite a bit of the New Testament, even though it's been around 2,000 years since it was written.
- tragomaskhalos 14y ago
- diego 14y agoLatine loquor. Inutilis id est, sed iucundus. My brother and I had six years of Latin in school. He's a biologist, and used to put it in his resume for kicks.
- meerita 14y agoI finally went to Rome the past June, 2012. I loved it and my GF loved it a lot too because I was able to translate most of all latin inscription she could find on the Roman ruins and other buildings. All the tourist around me were sniffing my back all the time because I knew a lot of the Roman history as well, but mostly because i was able to translate most of the inscriptions :)
- protomyth 14y agoAs an aside, there is an old article in Dr. Dobbs Journal (cannot find it right now) that talks about Botanical Latin and the precise description of plants.
- grellas 14y agoThe Familia Sancti Hieronymi (Family of St. Jerome), out of Florida, promotes the idea of Latin as a living language within the context of the Catholic Church. I have no special connection with this organization except that, having struggled to learn Latin on my own for some years, my breakthrough came via the Cursus Linguae Latinae Vivae (Course in the Living Latin Language) offered by that organization, as taught by Fr. Suitbertus Siedl entirely in Latin (for a rich set of Latin-only materials offered by FSH, see http://www.hieronymus.us.com/Venalia/IndLatin.htm http://www.hieronymus.us.com/Venalia/IndLatin.htm, with English translation of the offerings here: http://www.hieronymus.us.com/Venalia/IndEngl.htm http://www.hieronymus.us.com/Venalia/IndEngl.htm). The premise of the Cursus is that language is primarily an aural experience - hence, trying to learn Latin by translating words and sentences into another language such as English is a fundamentally poorer way to learn than by simply hearing and repeating it in the Latin itself even as one learns the grammatical rules and syntax. Asculte et alta voce legere (listen, and repeat out loud) is the command one hears throughout, along with Repetitio est mater studiorum. In each segment, there is a teaching from the ancient Latin of Rome, from historic Catholic Church materials, and from daily life. And you will hear Fr. Siedl vigorously proclaiming: "Lingua Latina non mortua est sed viva." Take it for what it is worth. But clearly there are pockets within today's world where people take seriously the idea that Latin should survive as a spoken tongue and where their gatherings are held entirely in Latin. For anyone who wants to learn the language, it is well worth dipping into that world. A pretty fascinating place for those with an inclination to learn about it.
- ScottBurson 14y agoRepetitio is mater studiorum "Is"? :-)
- eric_bullington 14y agoRepetition is the source of all learning (literally: "repetition is the mother of studies"). EDIT: And you're right, obviously the parent comment should have written "est" in lieu of "is". Sorry, missed what you were pointing out initially.
- pavelpadovan 14y agoego
- bitwize 14y agoI remember learning just enough Latin to come up with a cool motto for a proposed coat of arms for the software group at the robotics company I worked at: Fungitur simulatoris, which is dog latin for "it works in the simulator" but I think it means something closer to "it functions at/for the liar".
- ihaveajob 14y agoI'm Spanish. I took one year of Latin in high school, and I thought of it as a puzzle solving class. It was fun in the end, but of reduce applicability. Until I took my GRE exam. The standardized difficulty gradation made for the most bizzarre experience during the verbal part of the exam. I felt that words that ought to be easy to native English speakers were sometimes completely obscure to me, whereas if, by skill or luck, I made it to the set of more difficult words, they suddenly became easier to me, as they were often direct Latin or ancient Greek borrowings into English.
- fduran 14y agoSame here.
- Yhippa 14y agoWho keeps Latin alive these days other than niche uses like this? When I was in high school the top three languages were Spanish, French, and Latin. We had more students take Latin than German and other languages! To me it has usage in understanding the bases of words and scientific terms. It makes guessing the meanings of things whenever you're visiting a country that uses a Romance language easier. Other than that I'm not sure why this is taught so widely in American schools. Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad it is since I took Latin for six years and was an active participant in state Certamens, Latin club, and JCL events. I'm just amazed that students would even choose that over a living and more productive language.
- easy_rider 14y ago>It makes guessing the meanings of things whenever you're >visiting a country that uses a Romance language easier Spanish, French, English, Portuguese. It's a big deal.
- easy_rider 14y agoLatin is helping me a lot, in understanding ( bold that "understanding") words in French, Spanish, Catalan, Portuguese, Italian How can one understand the difference between i.e. and e.g. without being schooled in Latin?:)
- gus_massa 14y agoThe most important lesson is in the first paragraphs: > There are not many occasions when a reporter needs a grasp of Latin. [...] Most of the reporters present had to wait for the Vatican's official translations [...]. But not Italian wire service reporter Giovanna Chirri [...]. Her Latin was up to the job and she broke the story of the Pope's resignation to the world. Domain expertise is useful. If you are going to cover a catholic / klingon / phyton / whatever event, it's better if you know the main language.
- lists 14y agoSlightly off-topic: Though there's usually a lot of support for the idea of knowing Latin in order to understand the history of thinking in the west (Greek as well, of course), it rarely comes up that one actually has to know Arabic too for that some 500 years where Western learning was germinating in the Islamic empires.
- cafard 14y agoWell, yes and no. It took quite a while before the western universities got their Aristotle etc. translated directly from Greek rather than via Arabic. But they--the translators apart--mostly were reading their Averroes and Avicenna in Latin translations.
- pclark 14y agoI seem to remember Cambridge Medical School students learning Latin. Can anyone confirm?