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EU Data Protection: Proposed Amendments Written by US Lobbyists

154 points by EdwardQ 14y ago

hipsters_unite 14y ago
The audaciousness of taking those lobbyists' demands word-for-word and expecting nobody to find out in this day and age is pretty shocking.
- lutze 14y ago
  It's not audaciousness, it's ignorance.
  - hipsters_unite 14y ago
    Politician in "doesn't understand the internet" shock. It's an old story, I agree. Like when they wanted to "turn off Twitter" during the riots...
- colinhowe 14y ago
  Will the lobbyists now sue the EU for copyright infringement?
- Create 14y ago
  this same thing has happened before, ie. when they tried to legalize USPTO software patents in the EU reissued by the EPO.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  I think this is overly optimistic. It assumes that politicians don't understand that what they're doing will likely become public knowledge. That seems excessively generous, and suggests that these people are actually ignorant of the scrutiny under which their actions can and likely will be placed. I don't think that's likely, at least in most cases, if not all. It seems much more likely to me that these people simply don't care what their constituents think. Perhaps that's not something people in the EU are accustomed to, but Americans have been enjoying this phenomenon for generations. Perhaps our lobbyists are just spreading this problem like a political plague; if you think of it that way, they're our own ship full of infected rats. Sorry, guys. We don't want them here either, but we didn't intentionally send them over there (or, at least, we didn't vote for it).
Nursie 14y ago
The wording in any data protection act within the EU should be strongly anti-US. It's been shown many times that the US government does not consider data held in the US or by US corps on non-US citizens to be protected at all.
- homosaur 14y ago
  Even without looking at the ethics of all this, you're exactly right. At the most basic level, why do governments do things that are against the national interest in favor of multinational corporations or other countries? I think the answer probably has to do with who is picking up the tab. Politicians are owned, even more so the higher level you get.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    I'm not sure it's so simple, but there's definitely something wrong. You wonder if they live in a little echo-chamber that only lobbyists have access to. In terms of laws that impact trade I think they absolutely do need to consider whether new data laws will make trade with the US (or other entity) difficult, because it could negatively affect both sides. However they shouldn't always shy away from it when it's the right thing to do.
    - homosaur 14y ago
      Yes, they definitely do live in an echo chamber which is why their views are so skewed, but they also live in the world of globalist weasels who love this crap. Most of the people who would participate in a body as anti-democratic as the EU are not dependent on their own nations to succeed to make their checkbooks fat. They, like say, AlGore and Soros and these creeps, are mostly tied to economic interests outside of their own nations and could honestly care less whether or not their own nations sink or swim. Do I care whether the company across the street goes belly up? Now you can go crazy down the conspiracy road here and think those people are somehow in a cabal, but I think it's far more simple than that. They are just more reliant on groups outside their countries for their personal success.
netcan 14y ago
There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists to make stupid laws. See the UK/EU cookie laws for an example. They mandated that all sites must have nag screens. They cost the economy money. Annoy all european website users and achieved absolutely nothing useful. Malice may have had some role, but incompetence had a bigger one in that case. I wish the EU would think creatively about its whole legislative process.
- rmc 14y ago
  Actually a lot of EU directives are relatively easy to read. It only gets complex and legalese when national governments transpose them into national law.
  - homosaur 14y ago
    I think you mean when the EU overlords give directives and then the slave countries are forced to manipulate language and law to make those directives legal in their nations. Hyperbole? Only sorta.
    - sgift 14y ago
      Directives of the "EU overlords" have to be accepted by the Council of the European Union, which represents the "slave countries".
      - homosaur 14y ago
        Oh, you mean the non-elected social club for European elites? Yeah, part of the problem.
        sgift 14y ago
mattmanser 14y ago
The title of this has been changed and is wildly misleading. New AMENDMENTS being proposed by some MEPs are taken from lobbyists. These are amendments to the presently extremely pro-consumer proposal that are trying to water it down.
contingencies 14y ago
I am involved in some FOIA at the moment. It seems to me thus far that, at least at times, the EU Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) has been well meaning but have been actively sidelined by other, pro-American-outcome parts of the European beast. For example, see: http://www.asktheeu.org/en/body/edps http://www.asktheeu.org/en/body/edps
larsberg 14y ago
Somebody should make a kickstarter for political lobbying. Then, somebody could start a project to raise funding for writing new patent laws, and based on funding thresholds there'd be a certain amount of lobbyist facetime with congresspeople, "draft legislation" provided, etc. Why should big companies be the only ones playing that game? It'd be like the White House petition system, but with some results - even if they're just congressional awareness.
- knowaveragejoe 14y ago
  The same problems will still exist.

154 points by EdwardQ 14y ago

The audaciousness of taking those lobbyists' demands word-for-word and expecting nobody to find out in this day and age is pretty shocking.

lutze 14y ago
It's not audaciousness, it's ignorance.
- hipsters_unite 14y ago
  Politician in "doesn't understand the internet" shock. It's an old story, I agree. Like when they wanted to "turn off Twitter" during the riots...
colinhowe 14y ago
Will the lobbyists now sue the EU for copyright infringement?
Create 14y ago
this same thing has happened before, ie. when they tried to legalize USPTO software patents in the EU reissued by the EPO.
obviouslygreen 14y ago
I think this is overly optimistic. It assumes that politicians don't understand that what they're doing will likely become public knowledge. That seems excessively generous, and suggests that these people are actually ignorant of the scrutiny under which their actions can and likely will be placed. I don't think that's likely, at least in most cases, if not all. It seems much more likely to me that these people simply don't care what their constituents think. Perhaps that's not something people in the EU are accustomed to, but Americans have been enjoying this phenomenon for generations. Perhaps our lobbyists are just spreading this problem like a political plague; if you think of it that way, they're our own ship full of infected rats. Sorry, guys. We don't want them here either, but we didn't intentionally send them over there (or, at least, we didn't vote for it).

Nursie 14y ago

The wording in any data protection act within the EU should be strongly anti-US. It's been shown many times that the US government does not consider data held in the US or by US corps on non-US citizens to be protected at all.

homosaur 14y ago
Even without looking at the ethics of all this, you're exactly right. At the most basic level, why do governments do things that are against the national interest in favor of multinational corporations or other countries? I think the answer probably has to do with who is picking up the tab. Politicians are owned, even more so the higher level you get.
- Nursie 14y ago
  I'm not sure it's so simple, but there's definitely something wrong. You wonder if they live in a little echo-chamber that only lobbyists have access to. In terms of laws that impact trade I think they absolutely do need to consider whether new data laws will make trade with the US (or other entity) difficult, because it could negatively affect both sides. However they shouldn't always shy away from it when it's the right thing to do.
  - homosaur 14y ago
    Yes, they definitely do live in an echo chamber which is why their views are so skewed, but they also live in the world of globalist weasels who love this crap. Most of the people who would participate in a body as anti-democratic as the EU are not dependent on their own nations to succeed to make their checkbooks fat. They, like say, AlGore and Soros and these creeps, are mostly tied to economic interests outside of their own nations and could honestly care less whether or not their own nations sink or swim. Do I care whether the company across the street goes belly up? Now you can go crazy down the conspiracy road here and think those people are somehow in a cabal, but I think it's far more simple than that. They are just more reliant on groups outside their countries for their personal success.

netcan 14y ago

There are layers upon layers of problems here. 1. EU democracy and governance is not great. Very few europeans have any understanding of how the EU legislative process works or feel like they have anything to do with it. 2. Lobbying is increasingly making a mockery of consultation as an idea. 3. These laws are pretty technical and the people making them have no understanding of the issues. They don't need lobbyists to make stupid laws. See the UK/EU cookie laws for an example. They mandated that all sites must have nag screens. They cost the economy money. Annoy all european website users and achieved absolutely nothing useful. Malice may have had some role, but incompetence had a bigger one in that case. I wish the EU would think creatively about its whole legislative process.

rmc 14y ago
Actually a lot of EU directives are relatively easy to read. It only gets complex and legalese when national governments transpose them into national law.
- homosaur 14y ago
  I think you mean when the EU overlords give directives and then the slave countries are forced to manipulate language and law to make those directives legal in their nations. Hyperbole? Only sorta.
  - sgift 14y ago
    Directives of the "EU overlords" have to be accepted by the Council of the European Union, which represents the "slave countries".
    - homosaur 14y ago
      Oh, you mean the non-elected social club for European elites? Yeah, part of the problem.
      - sgift 14y ago

mattmanser 14y ago

The title of this has been changed and is wildly misleading. New AMENDMENTS being proposed by some MEPs are taken from lobbyists. These are amendments to the presently extremely pro-consumer proposal that are trying to water it down.

contingencies 14y ago

I am involved in some FOIA at the moment. It seems to me thus far that, at least at times, the EU Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) has been well meaning but have been actively sidelined by other, pro-American-outcome parts of the European beast. For example, see: http://www.asktheeu.org/en/body/edps http://www.asktheeu.org/en/body/edps

larsberg 14y ago

Somebody should make a kickstarter for political lobbying. Then, somebody could start a project to raise funding for writing new patent laws, and based on funding thresholds there'd be a certain amount of lobbyist facetime with congresspeople, "draft legislation" provided, etc. Why should big companies be the only ones playing that game? It'd be like the White House petition system, but with some results - even if they're just congressional awareness.

knowaveragejoe 14y ago
The same problems will still exist.