9 ms·

It's all who you know?

442 points by duck 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago
Moral of the story, the more rich and important you are the more free shit people give you.
- deleted 14y ago
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  - alexirobbins 14y ago
    Maybe it was the 3 pizzas? Seriously, what 18 year-old has that kind of money to blow on pizzas...
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - spullara 14y ago
      Well if it had been me in college, probably credit card debt.
      - baseh 14y ago
        I once ordered pizza for a guest, he didnt want one with those toppings. End of Story.
        mhb 14y ago
        So you ordered him a new one...?
    - sivers 14y ago
      Back then they were only $8. :-)
    - jonknee 14y ago
      I'd bet that 18 year-olds blow more of their income on pizza than older people do. And weed. Regardlss, connecting with someone important to your industry is hardly blowing money.
    - corin_ 14y ago
      Oops, deleted my comment while you were replying to it - once I saw patio's mine seemed pointless. I'd assumed he was talking about the author being the one who got connections by being rich/important, didn't occur to me he was complaining that the speaker got a free pizza.
  - anigbrowl 14y ago
    Sivers bought the pizza because of who the guy was. Nothing wrong with that, but it was straight-up opportunism since the guy was a big wheel in the industry that Sivers wished to participate in, as opposed to some nondescript stranger. The lesson here is to take advantage of opportunities when they come your way, not to hand out free pizza willy-nilly.
- patio11 14y ago
  This is a disempowering way of looking at it. Why focus on the wall when you could focus on the door? It is radically more useful to phrase the takeaway as "All business is conducted by humans, and all humans rich and poor need to eat. Culturally, business is often conducted over food. Knowing these facts, you can use food to create a social connection for cheap where creating a business connection would be otherwise impossible." That's actually pretty good advice, and it's at the heart of a lot of good advice you're going to get for career development, like arranging for coffee dates and business lunches with people who are in the line of Yes-es that you need to get hired.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Oh, I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea pragmatically. It's just a little sad that you are more like to be lauded for buying pizza for somebody who could probably afford an entire houseful of pizza, vs doing something to really help somebody.
    - aero142 14y ago
      He didn't just buy him a pizza, he showed independence and initiative.
      - thirdtruck 14y ago
        And we all love receiving the attention of someone who actively listens, which requires a learnable skill that most people neglect to learn. Having a respectful audience carries significant emotional and psychological value to the speaker, so Sivers likely also had that much to offer to Wozniak.
    - po 14y ago
      vs doing something to really help somebody. He is doing something to help somebody who needs it: himself. Your fixating on the monetary transaction is getting in the way. It could have been a random act of kindness. The money is just a small signal of giving-a-damn (there are others) that most people wouldn't jump over. He's being lauded for helping himself, not the executive.
- mbesto 14y ago
  I happen to be in a position where the more important I've become the more free shit I've gotten. This "stuff" is technically never free, but rather it's part of the cost of doing business. It's directly related to the same cost you (not you specifically) spending the time to write content for a wide audience "for free". It's all about building trust.
Anechoic 14y ago
The issue I have with his story is when he says "When I was 18, at Berklee College of Music" he's basically saying "When I was 18, at [the MIT/Harvard/CMU/Stanford of Music]" - that is, just being at that institution gave him the opportunity to meet a BMI executive. Now, how did he get to Berklee? Yes, hustling is always a good thing and I sincerely congratulate him on his initiative, but "who you know" did play a small part in his success (not that it's a bad thing, it just is). (BTW, in the off chance Derek is reading this - if you get a chance, please talk to the folks at The Record Co. http://www.therecordco.org/ http://www.therecordco.org/ - it was created by some Berklee folks as a way of providing low-cost recording studio services to artists who can't afford pro-studios and may need more services than can be offered using USB mics and Audacity.) edit: grammar/typos
- sivers 14y ago
  Herb - I totally agree. First draft of the post I kept saying "all because I went to school in Boston and bought a guy a pizza." Very thankful that I had the random luck to grow up in the U.S, to afford tuition at Berklee (though it was only $2500/semester back then.) But as the article developed into saying how NOW the physical location is less important, I removed the "I was in Boston" part to de-emphasize that part of my past story & emphasize the current stuff that anyone can apply. Now I think it doesn't need to begin with physical proximity. A well-written succinct email is the best introduction to almost anyone, and then you can strengthen that friendship by phone & email, then eventually meet in person if circumstances allow. Also, thanks for therecordco.org tip. I'll check it out.
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  - Anechoic 14y ago
    Your story reminded me of something that happened to me the summer before my freshman year in college. I was working two jobs at the time, 40 hours doing an engineering internship at a large company, and another 20+ hours working as a stockboy at a local department store (both in Massachusetts) - my family wasn't poor, but we also weren't rich, so I was trying to bank as much money as I could for the coming school year to take some of the load off my parents. One Saturday, while working at the department store, some blowhard came in to purchase a bunch of housewares to send to his son in Hawaii. The guy was bossy, and basically micromanaged us as we packed his purchases into boxes for shipping, much to our consternation. While waiting for someone to fetch some dishes, Mr. Blowhard and I just started talking to pass the time, and he basically started asking about my life. I told him about going to college and when he learned I was going to MIT, his ear's perked up. Long story short, Mr. Blowhard turned out to be the owner of one of the most successful restaurants in the area, and right then and there he offered to create a scholarship fund and award be a couple of thousand dollars to help pay for my tuition. When I tell folks about this story, they congratulate me for my hustle, but there was actually no hustle involved. I was literally in the right place at the right time, if I had traded shifts with a coworker (as we were wont to do for weekend hours) or if the right plates were on the store shelf, there would have been no money. Between this, the story of how I got my first job out of college (also a story of being at the right place at the right time), and one other story that I won't share, I've come to believe that serendipity is indeed at least as important as what you know or what you do. That said, hustle can only help, so you may as well try. :)
antidaily 14y ago
So do you want to know the people "who know everybody and everybody knows" or be them?
- ohheyworld 14y ago
  depends on what your strengths/weaknesses are and, ultimately, what you want to spend your time doing.
murtza 14y ago
The BMI record executive anecdote highlights that Derek had the situational awareness to see a problem and react in the right way because he knew there was a potential upside. Situational awareness also applies to recognizing current trends in the world and reacting to them. Think about what Derek did with CD Baby: He realized that the internet had a lot of potential for selling music, so he sold music on the internet.
ronnier 14y ago
Who you know and who you are friends with means a lot and can make your life much easier in many respects. That's one reason I see so many playing that social game at work. It really turns me off, even though I know it's important, I'd rather produce more and socialize less (at work).
aresant 14y ago
When I was in my early 20s I came across a charity auction for "Lunch with Woz". As a "top ramen entrepreneur" at the time, I had no chance of winning but I contacted Woz's assistant via the website. I said if there's any chance, anytime & anywhere of taking Woz out to lunch for a young tech entrepreneur to pick his brain please hit me back. That's all it took - I found myself treating Woz to lunch at a greasy-spoon by his house. Gracious, awesome guy - huge presence and a transformative moment for me. I'm glad I had an excuse to tell that story, because honestly there's not much more to add to Siver's excellent article - the plan he lays to engineering your own "who you know" is just that simple. So now go do it.
- martinced 14y ago
  My example is not as amazing as seeing Woz in person but it got me one of the finest job out there. I second you: pick up your phone. Most people love to leave names and responsibilities on products, in credits, etc. Analyze who made what, search the web, find a name of someone which you think could help and then try to find a way to contact him at his work (do not stalk into his private life) and then call him and ask to meet him. Many people will accept. The first I got invited to a dinner and thought I'd be just meeting the man: no, it was better than that, there were many people around and I got to meet several of the people I'd be working with later on. So now go do it.
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ilaksh 14y ago
Wow. Its so easy to meet successful people and become their friends. Just drop them an email and a phone call and wham, they will give you a job. I wish I realized that before. I will just write some emails tonight. Tomorrow I will be successful. I can't stand this guy's smug face. He was just lucky.
- Mz 14y ago
  I don't feel the hostility you express, but I do think he is, shall we say, oversimplifying. He likely doesn't realize it. The one good thing I think he says is that you can connect via the internet. I currently feel pretty socially isolated, even when online, and have for years. Emailing folks generally doesn't work for me (I mean me being the initiator tends to go down in flames). And I currently have a lot of baggage concerning feeling used and pissed on by quite a lot of people. In spite of all that, I do think the internet is a great way to make connections. I have had that experience in the past and I expect to again someday. Edit: I will add that Sivers' story of buying pizza for an industry insider at an elite school reminds me of a story I read of a woman pulling a multi thousand dollar couch off the curb and reupholstering it to improve the decor of her mansion for next to nothing with a "you, too, can do this!" type message. I have reclaimed furniture from the curb and refurbished it. I assure you, none of it was originally worth scads of money. So, no, we cannot all do what Sivers did. He had a serious leg up on how to meet and greet influential people. It is pretty insulting to imply that if you don't have the kind of success he has, you just aren't trying. (I am sure he did not intend to imply that but he does, in fact, imply just that.)
- artursapek 14y ago
  Well, you have to have something to offer... you seem extremely bitter.
- leviathant 14y ago
  I can already see you have the social prowess to find opportunities building strong relationships with strangers in powerful positions. I'm probably biased on this though, because when I was 17, living in the middle of nowhere PA, I started up a website about a band I liked, and by 19, the guy behind the band flew me to New Orleans and was interviewing me for a job working on their web presence. I was very fortunate to have learned that lesson as early as I did, and I didn't even have the benefit of living in an urban environment nor going to a well-recognized college. Not every interaction you seek will happen, but if you don't try or give up, your chances lessen even further. Meeting people is easy - and you'll have an easier time making friends if you weren't snarking so hard.
xfax 14y ago
"These people shaped the way I see the world. The people you surround yourself with don't just open doors. They change the way you think, and change your self-image of your capabilities." Truth right here. And one of the things people ignore when they bash MBA programs. One of the most important things I'll take away from my program is the self realization and the change in the way I see the world. And of course, the people I've met.
unimpressive 14y ago
Just an FYI, on my end your RSS feed doesn't work. Both akregator and firefox seem to agree that it's broken. That's a shame, because I really liked the article. EDIT: Confirmed. http://www.rssboard.org/rss-validator/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsivers.org%2Fen.atom http://www.rssboard.org/rss-validator/check.cgi?url=https%3A...
- sivers 14y ago
  Fixed. Thank you!
  - unimpressive 14y ago
    No problem. Thank you for fixing it. It's ironic because I was just about to go try writing a news reader. I actually found the validator while reading the RSS 2.0 spec.
apaprocki 14y ago
It's always the little things.. Mike Bloomberg had a great anecdote in his Chris Dixon interview[1] about getting a friend to let him into the Merrill Lynch office back in the early 80s and he'd bring a bunch of coffee/tea, with/without cream and knock and go into random offices and give the person the drink of their choice and ask if they could talk. No one turns down a free coffee. [1]: http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/28/founder-stories-how-michael-bloomberg-got-his-start-i-brought-you-a-cup-of-coffee/
bhickey 14y ago
because they reach out to say hello to the people they admire Amen to this. I'd go a step further and just suggest saying hello. No admiration necessary. My friends occasionally tell me that I'll talk to anyone, and it pays off. One example of several: After moving to London I e-mailed a local HN user. He introduced me to some people and two weeks later I had a job.
- gknoy 14y ago
  Do we have an easy way of finding other HN members nearby, or was that more similar to e-mailing patio11 if you happened to move to central Japan, since we know (already) that that's where he is?
  - bhickey 14y ago
    The latter. Saw someone posting about the London scene and just sent him an e-mail.
softbuilder 14y ago
"Lyndon Johnson would take four showers a day and brush his teeth over and over again so he would be in the same room with a bunch of politicians and he could talk to them briefly and make good connections." http://www.wikisummaries.org/Hardball#Chapter_1:_It.27s_Not_Who_You_Know.3B_It.27s_Who_You_Get_to_Know http://www.wikisummaries.org/Hardball#Chapter_1:_It.27s_Not_...
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neeharc 14y ago
Your story reminds me of how I got my first job. I was about to head home and right before the elevator I saw an older gentleman trying to dismantle a stall, the kind you see at job fairs. I stopped and offered help. He took me up on my offer and we exchanged a brief conversation. Then I left. The next day I had a job interview. And guess who was the interviewer. My good friend who I had helped was the VP of recruitment. My interview went well and that's how I ended up out here in California. Cheers to you mate. Good read.
DrinkWater 14y ago
It is all about who you know. But even more than that, you need to have a goal, made out of concrete/steel in front of your inner eye. All major religions focus on an "ultimate goal", warfare, nationalism, professional life, "masterplans", "big pictures", the plots of the best movies and literature in human history, etc. If you lack this goal, you will never know "who" you need to know. Randomly networking people will not help you in the long term.
codeonfire 14y ago
Suggested title: It's all who you know if you work in a field like music. For some people, burning bridges and telling people what they can go do to themselves is a cherished past time that they have earned. In my opinion the hard-line approach to success is far more satisfying. Imagine making an opportunity for yourself that no one can take away because they had no part in giving it to you. That's exhilarating to know that no one has any power or influence over you. If that's not your goal, then what's the point? You might as well go work at a grocery store or something.
10dpd 14y ago
It’s not just who you know, its who you know that knows that you know.
krmmalik 14y ago
Back in 2008, I found twitter to be really great for this. There was some successful people on twitter like James Schramko and Robin Sharma, amongst many others that I used to follow and they were great at answering my questions. I used to 'nag' them quite a bit and was surprised by how much they were willing to respond and communicate. I did this with almost everyone I followed. At one point I even got through to a producer for the BBC and he and I even chatted on the phone. It was that phone conversation that really made me understand what community engagement is really about and how it can help your product or business. Unfortunately, I got dragged away from twitter due to work (no excuses really) and when I became active again just recently, i've found there seems to be so much more noise and people's willingness to have a conversation with a stranger is nothing like it used to be. Still - I'm glad Mr.Sivers answers his emails. He's always been a great help in helping me to improve my mindset.
thewarrior 14y ago
A Relevant story about the author of the book Liars Poker : Michael Lewis was an art history student at Princeton University, who nonetheless wanted to break into Wall Street to make money. He describes his almost pathetic attempts to find a finance job, only to be roundly rejected by every firm to which he applied. He then enrolled in the London School of Economics to gain a Master's degree in economics. While in England, Lewis was invited to a banquet hosted by the Queen Mother, where he was purposely seated by his cousin, Baroness Linda Monroe von Stauffenberg, one of the organizers of the banquet, next to the wife of the London managing partner of Salomon Brothers, in the hope that his intelligence might impress her enough for her to suggest to her husband that Lewis be given a job with Salomon Brothers, which had previously turned him down. As it turned out, the strategy worked, and Lewis was granted an interview and landed the job. Lewis then moved to New York City for Salomon's training program. Here, he was appalled at the sophomoric, obtuse and obnoxious behavior of some of his fellow trainees, and indoctrinated into the money culture of Salomon Brothers and Wall Street in general. From New York, Lewis was shipped to the London office of Salomon Brothers as a bond salesman. Despite his lack of knowledge, he was soon handling millions of dollars in investment accounts. In 1987, he witnessed a near-hostile takeover of Salomon Brothers but survived with his job. However, growing disillusioned with his work, Lewis quit the firm at the beginning of 1988 to write this book and become a financial journalist. The first edition was published October 17, 1989. Interview of Michael Lewis : http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/jan-june12/michaellewis_06-13.html http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/jan-june12/mich...
- Tichy 14y ago
  Nice story, but I think if you are invited to a banquet hosted by the Queen Mother, it doesn't really count as an anecdote for "anyone can do it".
  - joonix 14y ago
    Yeah, this does nothing but promote the idea that it's "who you know." You have to be in the right circles to even get a shot at serendipity.
ycuser 14y ago
not just this story, but every successful person grabbed the little window of opportunity and one thing leads to another. The key is being prepared and taking the initiative.
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verroq 14y ago
If sucking up to a company executive counts as buying pizza for a stranger.
fduran 14y ago
I recommend to everybody Keith Ferrazzi's book "Never Eat Alone", which is like a modern "How To Win Friends and Influence People".
nns357 14y ago
My question would have to be, how do you surround yourself around people you want to be around? I live in the suburbs 30 minutes outside of Providence and Providence is hardly the type of city for start-ups or innovation. Boston is on the other hand, but say I spend an hour on the T driving up. What next?
joelmaat 14y ago
It's all about who you know if you have no talent, or are decidedly average. If you are better than that, then who you know, while it still matters, doesn't matter as much.
brendan_gill 14y ago
Its not who you know... its whom you know :)
Mozai 14y ago
It's not who you know -- but who knows you.

442 points by duck 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago

Moral of the story, the more rich and important you are the more free shit people give you.

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- alexirobbins 14y ago
  Maybe it was the 3 pizzas? Seriously, what 18 year-old has that kind of money to blow on pizzas...
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  - spullara 14y ago
    Well if it had been me in college, probably credit card debt.
    - baseh 14y ago
      I once ordered pizza for a guest, he didnt want one with those toppings. End of Story.
      - mhb 14y ago
        So you ordered him a new one...?
  - sivers 14y ago
    Back then they were only $8. :-)
  - jonknee 14y ago
    I'd bet that 18 year-olds blow more of their income on pizza than older people do. And weed. Regardlss, connecting with someone important to your industry is hardly blowing money.
  - corin_ 14y ago
    Oops, deleted my comment while you were replying to it - once I saw patio's mine seemed pointless. I'd assumed he was talking about the author being the one who got connections by being rich/important, didn't occur to me he was complaining that the speaker got a free pizza.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  Sivers bought the pizza because of who the guy was. Nothing wrong with that, but it was straight-up opportunism since the guy was a big wheel in the industry that Sivers wished to participate in, as opposed to some nondescript stranger. The lesson here is to take advantage of opportunities when they come your way, not to hand out free pizza willy-nilly.
patio11 14y ago
This is a disempowering way of looking at it. Why focus on the wall when you could focus on the door? It is radically more useful to phrase the takeaway as "All business is conducted by humans, and all humans rich and poor need to eat. Culturally, business is often conducted over food. Knowing these facts, you can use food to create a social connection for cheap where creating a business connection would be otherwise impossible." That's actually pretty good advice, and it's at the heart of a lot of good advice you're going to get for career development, like arranging for coffee dates and business lunches with people who are in the line of Yes-es that you need to get hired.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Oh, I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea pragmatically. It's just a little sad that you are more like to be lauded for buying pizza for somebody who could probably afford an entire houseful of pizza, vs doing something to really help somebody.
  - aero142 14y ago
    He didn't just buy him a pizza, he showed independence and initiative.
    - thirdtruck 14y ago
      And we all love receiving the attention of someone who actively listens, which requires a learnable skill that most people neglect to learn. Having a respectful audience carries significant emotional and psychological value to the speaker, so Sivers likely also had that much to offer to Wozniak.
  - po 14y ago
    vs doing something to really help somebody. He is doing something to help somebody who needs it: himself. Your fixating on the monetary transaction is getting in the way. It could have been a random act of kindness. The money is just a small signal of giving-a-damn (there are others) that most people wouldn't jump over. He's being lauded for helping himself, not the executive.
mbesto 14y ago
I happen to be in a position where the more important I've become the more free shit I've gotten. This "stuff" is technically never free, but rather it's part of the cost of doing business. It's directly related to the same cost you (not you specifically) spending the time to write content for a wide audience "for free". It's all about building trust.

Anechoic 14y ago

The issue I have with his story is when he says "When I was 18, at Berklee College of Music" he's basically saying "When I was 18, at [the MIT/Harvard/CMU/Stanford of Music]" - that is, just being at that institution gave him the opportunity to meet a BMI executive. Now, how did he get to Berklee? Yes, hustling is always a good thing and I sincerely congratulate him on his initiative, but "who you know" did play a small part in his success (not that it's a bad thing, it just is). (BTW, in the off chance Derek is reading this - if you get a chance, please talk to the folks at The Record Co. http://www.therecordco.org/ http://www.therecordco.org/ - it was created by some Berklee folks as a way of providing low-cost recording studio services to artists who can't afford pro-studios and may need more services than can be offered using USB mics and Audacity.) edit: grammar/typos

sivers 14y ago
Herb - I totally agree. First draft of the post I kept saying "all because I went to school in Boston and bought a guy a pizza." Very thankful that I had the random luck to grow up in the U.S, to afford tuition at Berklee (though it was only $2500/semester back then.) But as the article developed into saying how NOW the physical location is less important, I removed the "I was in Boston" part to de-emphasize that part of my past story & emphasize the current stuff that anyone can apply. Now I think it doesn't need to begin with physical proximity. A well-written succinct email is the best introduction to almost anyone, and then you can strengthen that friendship by phone & email, then eventually meet in person if circumstances allow. Also, thanks for therecordco.org tip. I'll check it out.
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- Anechoic 14y ago
  Your story reminded me of something that happened to me the summer before my freshman year in college. I was working two jobs at the time, 40 hours doing an engineering internship at a large company, and another 20+ hours working as a stockboy at a local department store (both in Massachusetts) - my family wasn't poor, but we also weren't rich, so I was trying to bank as much money as I could for the coming school year to take some of the load off my parents. One Saturday, while working at the department store, some blowhard came in to purchase a bunch of housewares to send to his son in Hawaii. The guy was bossy, and basically micromanaged us as we packed his purchases into boxes for shipping, much to our consternation. While waiting for someone to fetch some dishes, Mr. Blowhard and I just started talking to pass the time, and he basically started asking about my life. I told him about going to college and when he learned I was going to MIT, his ear's perked up. Long story short, Mr. Blowhard turned out to be the owner of one of the most successful restaurants in the area, and right then and there he offered to create a scholarship fund and award be a couple of thousand dollars to help pay for my tuition. When I tell folks about this story, they congratulate me for my hustle, but there was actually no hustle involved. I was literally in the right place at the right time, if I had traded shifts with a coworker (as we were wont to do for weekend hours) or if the right plates were on the store shelf, there would have been no money. Between this, the story of how I got my first job out of college (also a story of being at the right place at the right time), and one other story that I won't share, I've come to believe that serendipity is indeed at least as important as what you know or what you do. That said, hustle can only help, so you may as well try. :)

antidaily 14y ago

So do you want to know the people "who know everybody and everybody knows" or be them?

ohheyworld 14y ago
depends on what your strengths/weaknesses are and, ultimately, what you want to spend your time doing.

murtza 14y ago

The BMI record executive anecdote highlights that Derek had the situational awareness to see a problem and react in the right way because he knew there was a potential upside. Situational awareness also applies to recognizing current trends in the world and reacting to them. Think about what Derek did with CD Baby: He realized that the internet had a lot of potential for selling music, so he sold music on the internet.

ronnier 14y ago

Who you know and who you are friends with means a lot and can make your life much easier in many respects. That's one reason I see so many playing that social game at work. It really turns me off, even though I know it's important, I'd rather produce more and socialize less (at work).

aresant 14y ago

When I was in my early 20s I came across a charity auction for "Lunch with Woz". As a "top ramen entrepreneur" at the time, I had no chance of winning but I contacted Woz's assistant via the website. I said if there's any chance, anytime & anywhere of taking Woz out to lunch for a young tech entrepreneur to pick his brain please hit me back. That's all it took - I found myself treating Woz to lunch at a greasy-spoon by his house. Gracious, awesome guy - huge presence and a transformative moment for me. I'm glad I had an excuse to tell that story, because honestly there's not much more to add to Siver's excellent article - the plan he lays to engineering your own "who you know" is just that simple. So now go do it.

martinced 14y ago
My example is not as amazing as seeing Woz in person but it got me one of the finest job out there. I second you: pick up your phone. Most people love to leave names and responsibilities on products, in credits, etc. Analyze who made what, search the web, find a name of someone which you think could help and then try to find a way to contact him at his work (do not stalk into his private life) and then call him and ask to meet him. Many people will accept. The first I got invited to a dinner and thought I'd be just meeting the man: no, it was better than that, there were many people around and I got to meet several of the people I'd be working with later on. So now go do it.

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ilaksh 14y ago

Wow. Its so easy to meet successful people and become their friends. Just drop them an email and a phone call and wham, they will give you a job. I wish I realized that before. I will just write some emails tonight. Tomorrow I will be successful. I can't stand this guy's smug face. He was just lucky.

Mz 14y ago
I don't feel the hostility you express, but I do think he is, shall we say, oversimplifying. He likely doesn't realize it. The one good thing I think he says is that you can connect via the internet. I currently feel pretty socially isolated, even when online, and have for years. Emailing folks generally doesn't work for me (I mean me being the initiator tends to go down in flames). And I currently have a lot of baggage concerning feeling used and pissed on by quite a lot of people. In spite of all that, I do think the internet is a great way to make connections. I have had that experience in the past and I expect to again someday. Edit: I will add that Sivers' story of buying pizza for an industry insider at an elite school reminds me of a story I read of a woman pulling a multi thousand dollar couch off the curb and reupholstering it to improve the decor of her mansion for next to nothing with a "you, too, can do this!" type message. I have reclaimed furniture from the curb and refurbished it. I assure you, none of it was originally worth scads of money. So, no, we cannot all do what Sivers did. He had a serious leg up on how to meet and greet influential people. It is pretty insulting to imply that if you don't have the kind of success he has, you just aren't trying. (I am sure he did not intend to imply that but he does, in fact, imply just that.)
artursapek 14y ago
Well, you have to have something to offer... you seem extremely bitter.
leviathant 14y ago
I can already see you have the social prowess to find opportunities building strong relationships with strangers in powerful positions. I'm probably biased on this though, because when I was 17, living in the middle of nowhere PA, I started up a website about a band I liked, and by 19, the guy behind the band flew me to New Orleans and was interviewing me for a job working on their web presence. I was very fortunate to have learned that lesson as early as I did, and I didn't even have the benefit of living in an urban environment nor going to a well-recognized college. Not every interaction you seek will happen, but if you don't try or give up, your chances lessen even further. Meeting people is easy - and you'll have an easier time making friends if you weren't snarking so hard.

xfax 14y ago

"These people shaped the way I see the world. The people you surround yourself with don't just open doors. They change the way you think, and change your self-image of your capabilities." Truth right here. And one of the things people ignore when they bash MBA programs. One of the most important things I'll take away from my program is the self realization and the change in the way I see the world. And of course, the people I've met.

unimpressive 14y ago

Just an FYI, on my end your RSS feed doesn't work. Both akregator and firefox seem to agree that it's broken. That's a shame, because I really liked the article. EDIT: Confirmed. http://www.rssboard.org/rss-validator/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsivers.org%2Fen.atom http://www.rssboard.org/rss-validator/check.cgi?url=https%3A...

sivers 14y ago
Fixed. Thank you!
- unimpressive 14y ago
  No problem. Thank you for fixing it. It's ironic because I was just about to go try writing a news reader. I actually found the validator while reading the RSS 2.0 spec.

apaprocki 14y ago

It's always the little things.. Mike Bloomberg had a great anecdote in his Chris Dixon interview[1] about getting a friend to let him into the Merrill Lynch office back in the early 80s and he'd bring a bunch of coffee/tea, with/without cream and knock and go into random offices and give the person the drink of their choice and ask if they could talk. No one turns down a free coffee. [1]: http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/28/founder-stories-how-michael-bloomberg-got-his-start-i-brought-you-a-cup-of-coffee/

bhickey 14y ago

because they reach out to say hello to the people they admire Amen to this. I'd go a step further and just suggest saying hello. No admiration necessary. My friends occasionally tell me that I'll talk to anyone, and it pays off. One example of several: After moving to London I e-mailed a local HN user. He introduced me to some people and two weeks later I had a job.

gknoy 14y ago
Do we have an easy way of finding other HN members nearby, or was that more similar to e-mailing patio11 if you happened to move to central Japan, since we know (already) that that's where he is?
- bhickey 14y ago
  The latter. Saw someone posting about the London scene and just sent him an e-mail.

softbuilder 14y ago

"Lyndon Johnson would take four showers a day and brush his teeth over and over again so he would be in the same room with a bunch of politicians and he could talk to them briefly and make good connections." http://www.wikisummaries.org/Hardball#Chapter_1:_It.27s_Not_Who_You_Know.3B_It.27s_Who_You_Get_to_Know http://www.wikisummaries.org/Hardball#Chapter_1:_It.27s_Not_...

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neeharc 14y ago

Your story reminds me of how I got my first job. I was about to head home and right before the elevator I saw an older gentleman trying to dismantle a stall, the kind you see at job fairs. I stopped and offered help. He took me up on my offer and we exchanged a brief conversation. Then I left. The next day I had a job interview. And guess who was the interviewer. My good friend who I had helped was the VP of recruitment. My interview went well and that's how I ended up out here in California. Cheers to you mate. Good read.

DrinkWater 14y ago

It is all about who you know. But even more than that, you need to have a goal, made out of concrete/steel in front of your inner eye. All major religions focus on an "ultimate goal", warfare, nationalism, professional life, "masterplans", "big pictures", the plots of the best movies and literature in human history, etc. If you lack this goal, you will never know "who" you need to know. Randomly networking people will not help you in the long term.

codeonfire 14y ago

Suggested title: It's all who you know if you work in a field like music. For some people, burning bridges and telling people what they can go do to themselves is a cherished past time that they have earned. In my opinion the hard-line approach to success is far more satisfying. Imagine making an opportunity for yourself that no one can take away because they had no part in giving it to you. That's exhilarating to know that no one has any power or influence over you. If that's not your goal, then what's the point? You might as well go work at a grocery store or something.

10dpd 14y ago

It’s not just who you know, its who you know that knows that you know.

krmmalik 14y ago

Back in 2008, I found twitter to be really great for this. There was some successful people on twitter like James Schramko and Robin Sharma, amongst many others that I used to follow and they were great at answering my questions. I used to 'nag' them quite a bit and was surprised by how much they were willing to respond and communicate. I did this with almost everyone I followed. At one point I even got through to a producer for the BBC and he and I even chatted on the phone. It was that phone conversation that really made me understand what community engagement is really about and how it can help your product or business. Unfortunately, I got dragged away from twitter due to work (no excuses really) and when I became active again just recently, i've found there seems to be so much more noise and people's willingness to have a conversation with a stranger is nothing like it used to be. Still - I'm glad Mr.Sivers answers his emails. He's always been a great help in helping me to improve my mindset.

thewarrior 14y ago

A Relevant story about the author of the book Liars Poker : Michael Lewis was an art history student at Princeton University, who nonetheless wanted to break into Wall Street to make money. He describes his almost pathetic attempts to find a finance job, only to be roundly rejected by every firm to which he applied. He then enrolled in the London School of Economics to gain a Master's degree in economics. While in England, Lewis was invited to a banquet hosted by the Queen Mother, where he was purposely seated by his cousin, Baroness Linda Monroe von Stauffenberg, one of the organizers of the banquet, next to the wife of the London managing partner of Salomon Brothers, in the hope that his intelligence might impress her enough for her to suggest to her husband that Lewis be given a job with Salomon Brothers, which had previously turned him down. As it turned out, the strategy worked, and Lewis was granted an interview and landed the job. Lewis then moved to New York City for Salomon's training program. Here, he was appalled at the sophomoric, obtuse and obnoxious behavior of some of his fellow trainees, and indoctrinated into the money culture of Salomon Brothers and Wall Street in general. From New York, Lewis was shipped to the London office of Salomon Brothers as a bond salesman. Despite his lack of knowledge, he was soon handling millions of dollars in investment accounts. In 1987, he witnessed a near-hostile takeover of Salomon Brothers but survived with his job. However, growing disillusioned with his work, Lewis quit the firm at the beginning of 1988 to write this book and become a financial journalist. The first edition was published October 17, 1989. Interview of Michael Lewis : http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/jan-june12/michaellewis_06-13.html http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/jan-june12/mich...

Tichy 14y ago
Nice story, but I think if you are invited to a banquet hosted by the Queen Mother, it doesn't really count as an anecdote for "anyone can do it".
- joonix 14y ago
  Yeah, this does nothing but promote the idea that it's "who you know." You have to be in the right circles to even get a shot at serendipity.

ycuser 14y ago

not just this story, but every successful person grabbed the little window of opportunity and one thing leads to another. The key is being prepared and taking the initiative.

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verroq 14y ago

If sucking up to a company executive counts as buying pizza for a stranger.

fduran 14y ago

I recommend to everybody Keith Ferrazzi's book "Never Eat Alone", which is like a modern "How To Win Friends and Influence People".

nns357 14y ago

My question would have to be, how do you surround yourself around people you want to be around? I live in the suburbs 30 minutes outside of Providence and Providence is hardly the type of city for start-ups or innovation. Boston is on the other hand, but say I spend an hour on the T driving up. What next?

joelmaat 14y ago

It's all about who you know if you have no talent, or are decidedly average. If you are better than that, then who you know, while it still matters, doesn't matter as much.

brendan_gill 14y ago

Its not who you know... its whom you know :)

Mozai 14y ago

It's not who you know -- but who knows you.